library dodges a fundy bullet.

[doggie]

not a big deal but when I read what the fundy group wanted to do I say go library.

Group sues Seaside library for meeting room access

OR State Wire

Published: Yesterday

ASTORIA, Oregon (AP) - The public library in Seaside is the target of a lawsuit by a group that claims it was improperly denied use of the building's meeting room.

The Daily Astorian (http://bit.ly/zdXNVQ) reports that a Florida-based nonprofit organization, Liberty Counsel, claimed library policy banning certain religious activities violates the First and 14th Amendments guaranteeing free speech and equal protection.

An Enterprise man who said he was affiliated with the group wrote a letter in August 2010 seeking to use the library meeting room. Benjamin Boyd said the foundation "would like to sponsor a free evangelical outreach in Seaside to help mold children into responsible and respectful citizens by shaping their moral consciousness from a Christian and Biblical viewpoint."

The group wanted to use the room for interactive presentations, discussions and exercises, Boyd wrote.

A library employee denied the application in a voice message left for Boyd, saying library policy prohibited religious services or proselytizing, according to the lawsuit filed last week.

The foundation in December made a second inquiry and was denied, the lawsuit said.

Library Director Reita Fackerell said the library board adopted the current policy without review by the Seaside City Council. She referred questions to city attorney Dan Van Thiel, who could not be reached for comment.

The library policy says meeting rooms cannot be used "for religious services or proselytizing." It also prohibits the "solicitation or development of business, for profit or for fundraising . for individual political campaigns or partisan political recruitment, or for gambling or games of chance."

A number of other Oregon libraries prohibit users from conducting commercial activities in the rooms.

Macey Morales of the American Association of Libraries said the association's "Library Bill of Rights" says that libraries should make meeting rooms available to the public on an "equitable basis, regardless of the beliefs or affiliations of individuals requesting their use."

[Marian the Librarian]

From the Seaside Library's Policy Manual:

3. Meeting rooms shall not be used for commercial purposes, for the solicitation or development of business, for profit or for fundraising, for religious services or proselytizing, for individual political campaigns or partisan political recruitment, or for gambling or games of chance.

From the Wikipedia article about Liberty Counsel:

Liberty Counsel is a non-profit public interest law firm and ministry that provides free legal assistance in defense of "Christian religious liberty, the sanctity of human life, and the traditional family."[1] Liberty Counsel is headed by attorney Mathew D. Staver, who founded the legal ministry with his wife, Anita, in 1989 and currently serves as its Chairman. Anita L. Staver, his wife, serves as President of Liberty Counsel. A close partnership exists between Liberty University, which was founded by the Rev. Jerry Falwell, and Liberty Counsel; Staver serves as Liberty University's law school Dean.[1] In 2004, Liberty Counsel became affiliated with Liberty University/Falwell Ministries and Liberty Counsel opened an office at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia.

Liberty Counsel has established its goals revolving around influencing policy and providing courts with the legal rationale to develop precedent favorable to its mission. Although Liberty Counsel has said in the past that its central goal is to educate both its membership and public officials about its view on the role of religion in public life, it now states that its primary goal is to influence policy.[2]

The LC supports the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy.[3] The LC also opposes efforts to prohibit employment discrimination against gay workers.[4] The LC further opposes 'the addition of "sexual orientation", "gender identity" or similar provisions' to hate crimes legislation.[5] The Southern Poverty Law Center lists the Liberty Counsel as being one of twelve groups comprising an "anti-gay crusade."[6] The LC also devotes its time to fighting against same-sex marriage, civil unions, and adoption by homosexuals.[7]

In 2000, Liberty Counsel threatened legal action against a public library for awarding certificates involving Harry Potter books, because "the certificate of witchcraft endorsed a particular religion".[15]

In December 2005, Liberty Counsel issued a press release accusing an elementary school in Dodgeville, Wisconsin of changing the lyrics of Christmas songs to make them more "secular" and said it would sue the school district "if the district does not immediately remedy the situation."[16] In fact, the school was putting on the play "The Little Tree’s Christmas Gift," written by Dwight Elrich, a former church choir director.[17] The Dodgeville school district attempted to seek a retraction and apology from Liberty Counsel, as well as reimbursement of $20,000 spent in personnel, security, and attorney fees to fight the accusation. Liberty Counsel's Staver refused, asserting, "There is nothing to apologize for or retract."[18]

I'm on the library's side.

[doggie]

I guess they really dodged the bullet. that was one nasty infected bullet full of fundy hate.

where does Jesus say to discriminate???

[Kelya]

Good. Libraries need to be strict on this sort of thing, its a place where everyone can come and enjoy the free services and space and not feel pressured by businesses. And religious organizations like that are just businesses with some jesus thrown in.

[Marian the Librarian]

Trust me - books could be written about situations like this that occur regularly in public libraries. Between the censorship attempts, the hidden religious tracts, the "non-profits" that surreptitiously set us cash registers during their meetings, and the multi-level marketing schemes, it's never a dull moment.

[Kelya]

Trust me - books could be written about situations like this that occur regularly in public libraries. Between the censorship attempts, the hidden religious tracts, the "non-profits" that surreptitiously set us cash registers during their meetings, and the multi-level marketing schemes, it's never a dull moment.

Yeah, my mom's a children's librarian and the horror stories she brought home were always pretty epic. I'd work as a page during the summers and ooooh boy. It didn't help that we were right across the street from a sort of last ditch drug rehab facility, so we got all the local color. And an anthrax scare once!

[DarkAnts]

1) The seaside library is small so they have to be careful to keep the number of people in the building down under the fire code regulations.

2) The library had its polices published for all to see. They knew the policy and wanted the library to bend them.

3)The library is a government funded building. They can not appear to be bias towards a particular religious group by allowing them to be there. It goes back to Illinois vs. McCollum where the supreme court said that a government funded institution can not allow religious leaders to lecture at said institution.

4) The 14 amendment was made to protect newly freed slaves. It gave all slaves citizen ship and said "that it forbids states from denying any person "life, liberty or property, without due process of law" or to "deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.â€" (http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdo ... dment.html) Its not about freedom of speech. The state of Oregon did not make any laws that denied this group equal protection under the law. They have every right to have their "evangelical outreach", they just cant do it on government property. They can do it at a local church or rent out a space at the convention center.

[Kelya]

1) The seaside library is small so they have to be careful to keep the number of people in the building down under the fire code regulations.

2) The library had its polices published for all to see. They knew the policy and wanted the library to bend them.

3)The library is a government funded building. They can not appear to be bias towards a particular religious group by allowing them to be there. It goes back to Illinois vs. McCollum where the supreme court said that a government funded institution can not allow religious leaders to lecture at said institution.

4) The 14 amendment was made to protect newly freed slaves. It gave all slaves citizen ship and said "that it forbids states from denying any person "life, liberty or property, without due process of law" or to "deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.â€" (http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdo ... dment.html) Its not about freedom of speech. The state of Oregon did not make any laws that denied this group equal protection under the law. They have every right to have their "evangelical outreach", they just cant do it on government property. They can do it at a local church or rent out a space at the convention center.

There's a huge megachurch not too far from the Seaside Library, too. On your left if you're going up the main road from points north.

[Arielkay]

What a load of crap. I've worked in libraries for years as well - public and university. And most do have policies that people are free to look at before using a meeting room. We never let religious or political groups use the room, because that made it look like we were supporting one side or the other. To be fair, it was that way for EVERY religious group, political party, etc. We have freedom of religion but we also have separation of church and state. Libraries are typically funded by either the city, county, state or at the federal level - that means government. If some Muslim group wanted the room, and the library let them have it, these same people would be claiming the library / government were supportin' them terrorists. And yes, they also try to have everything under the sun censored because it offends their eyes. Sorry - you don't make the rules for the rest of the planet. I'm not sure who this American Association of Libraries is - I've heard of the American Library Association, and similiar associations state by state, but those for certain would have stood behind this library's decision.

Oh, and you know what the most banned book for about four or five years running is? And Tango Makes Three - a book about two male penguins raising a chick. PENGUINS! These people are freaking nuts.

[Marian the Librarian]

Weeeelll, you know what they say: "Libraries are brothels for the mind."

:lol:

[HijabiLady]

Of course they (fundies) will spin this as a Christian-hate thing, they love playing the oppression card. When will they realize if we want what they're selling, we will show up on their church's step? I am sooooo sick of Christians sitting on corners here blaring their flavor of belief through a bullhorn. (this really happens here)

[CanadianHippie]

Weeeelll, you know what they say: "Libraries are brothels for the mind."

:lol:

Well that explains why my mind is always in the gutter! I practically lived at the library growing up.

[NurseNell]

Interesting. The Unitarian Church my mother belonged to held their Sunday services for a few years at the meeting room in the Highland Park branch of the public library in Saint Paul.

[DarkAnts]

There's a huge megachurch not too far from the Seaside Library, too. On your left if you're going up the main road from points north.

The irony is killing me.

[Elle]

The library would only be in the wrong if they denied certain religious groups access to the meeting room and not others. Since it's a blanket ban, and especially since the point of the use of the room was to "reach out" to those who weren't in the room, the library is in the right here.

Irony. Liberty Counsel. Yeah, liberty for Christians only.

[Terrie]

Weeeelll, you know what they say: "Libraries are brothels for the mind."

:lol:

Who needs the internet, when you have a library card? (Though, I suspect it was not a coincidence that my local library shelved books in such a way that things like "The Joy of Sex" ended up on the top shelf).

[Arete]

I'm surprised they would even consider meeting in a library. There are all kinds of BOOKS in there that are NOT. THE. BIBLE. Not to mention the multimedia that feeds the Beast. Any what about those computers that any old innocent's eyes could look at?

My fondest memory of the library was being 11 years old. Having had sex explained to me by my 13 year old cousin and thinking she was blowing smoke up my ass, I went to the library the next day. After using the "subject" portion of the card catalogue, I proceeded to get my hands on "Let's Make Sex a Household Word". Read it cover to cover in the library. Good times.

[freejoytoo]

I remember getting Forever out of the library when I was thirteen. I love libraries!

[NurseNell]

I'm surprised they would even consider meeting in a library. There are all kinds of BOOKS in there that are NOT. THE. BIBLE. Not to mention the multimedia that feeds the Beast. Any what about those computers that any old innocent's eyes could look at?

The public library in my neighborhood, where my mother's Unitarian Church met, has separate meeting rooms. I think the library being mentioned here has separate meeting rooms. There are no books, no computers. You don't even have to actually walk through the book section to get to the meeting rooms.

[Arete]

At the public library in my town, you actually do have to go through the main library to get the the meeting rooms, so all sorts of chances of a Dan Savage or David Sederis book falling into pure hands. :mrgreen:

[GeoBQn]

Not to mention that someone could make a circuitous route to the meeting room so they could put tracts in the books and underneath the computer keyboards.

When I was in elementary school, I was too embarrassed to talk to my parents about anything related to puberty. Instead, I felt more comfortable checking out books about it from the library. This eased my parents' minds, knowing that I could still find good information even if I wasn't talking to them.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

My local library has people donating books on creationism and then being upset when those books are shelved under religion rather than in the mainstream science section. (That's assuming they're not just put directly into the sale pile.)

[super skeptic]

Using a library's publically-funded room doesn't sound very self-sufficient or bootstrappy to me. Commyoonists!!!!!!

[Burris]

2) The library had its polices published for all to see. They knew the policy and wanted the library to bend them.

That organization sounds like it is sniffing around for a precedent-setting lawsuit. I would be interested to see if Liberty Counsel actually has a program for kids, or if that were merely the cover story LC used to elicit a rejection for their request to use the space.

[JesusFightClub]

I love libraries with a great big crazy love. And librarians...er, not to freak you out, but I would shake you all by the hand. You do a fantastic job.

My local library lets all kinds of groups (from religious to Weight Watchers) meet there, but no Amway style groups. It's the commercial element which worries them and is not permitted.

Bizarrely our local church (while having the same Amway rule) is happy to hold Communist Party and Socialist Workers' Party meetings. That probably doesn't happen in the US ;)