Seven Sisters on pinterest - racist or just weird?

[jaelh]

Me culpa on the Vietnamese ethnic group. I was not there as long as you and I could not think of the name, but I was there long enough to see that it does matter to people in those groups. The sisters could not be expected to make nuanced distinctions, true. But they can be expected to recognize that people in those groups care about distinctions.

ETA: And no, maybe it isn't racist. My failure to correctly identify a group whose name I should know doesn't make me look or feel superior. It makes me look/feel like an idiot.

That's kind of the point, D. Obviously not racist. Quite simply you didn't have the info at your fingertips, and you didn't see the need to google it : that Kinh are considered to comprise "the Vietnamese" is pretty much par for the course. I might expect an educated person to differentiate between Han Chinese and other, but that's only because China is the New Big Thing. It's reasonable to expect that people would know who you were referring to and that that would do. You just happened to be referring to groups I know a hellva lot about, so I could call you on the lack of distinction.

To extend the reasoning: we're talking here about 7 incredibly, hopelessly naive girls, who haven't had a decent education and whose contact with the outside world is *massively* curtailed. I'd be surprised if their Church was particularly ethnically diverse, and particularly surprised if it contained a large number of Asians, let alone a diverse Asian population. They didn't even have the opportunity to meet Asian-Americans while at school. I think we can assume their knowledge of inter-asian ethnicity, and why is matters is going to be woeful. Hell, it's woeful amongst the mainstream population who are likely to have exposure to diverse groups of Asians and a better understanding of what matters.

You clearly know quite a bit about why this matters. That's wonderful you have that knowledge. But I don't think it's helpful to assume malicious intent when others have a much (much) lower grasp of nuance on the same topic; particularly given their appalling education and infantalisation.

I will happily accept that labeling a group of Asians as "Chinese" is problematic. However, problematic and racist aren't the same thing. It indicates a woeful lack of knowledge on the sisters part (both on what comprise different groups and why the distinction might matter); but I don't accept that a lack of knowledge is, prima face, racist. If you were mounting an argument that this demonstrates the type of problematic behavior that enables dominant groups to normatise their own identity and exoticise the other - yes; hell yes; a million times yes. But is that racist? Like THG, I think it's a further leap that isn't necessarily demonstrated.

To analogize: I subscribe to a fairly "extreme" variant of feminism I find the pink-a-fication of girl babies awful. I find it's the type of thing that reinforces the infatialisation of adult women, and essentially coerces women into a particular box. However, should someone give me a pink layette for a baby daughter, I would not attribute their actions to sexism, rather I would attribute said action to their unquestioning acceptance of the normative. Now, that's problematic - yes, absolutely. And yes, it perpetuates problematic norms. But rather than being sexist, I'd just put it down to their unthinking acceptance of what they understood to be normal. Does that make sense? Do you think I should consider being given gendered items for your baby sexist?

I know it's not a perfect analogy (babies can't give us their opinion for example, though women sure can and the message isn't consistent). However, I hope it's illustrative. I do think we need some way of differentiating between systemic norms (underscored by ignorance) that frame the normal and perpetuate unequal relationships from more egregious acts of specific attack and diminution of the person. I don't think something has to be racist (or sexist or whatever) to be in the first category; nor does it need to be to be considered worthy of remedy.

[theologygeek]

Me culpa on the Vietnamese ethnic group. I was not there as long as you and I could not think of the name, but I was there long enough to see that it does matter to people in those groups. The sisters could not be expected to make nuanced distinctions, true. But they can be expected to recognize that people in those groups care about distinctions.

ETA: And no, maybe it isn't racist. My failure to correctly identify a group whose name I should know doesn't make me look or feel superior. It makes me look/feel like an idiot.

I was going to bring this up, but I refrained. LOL Just teasing you. Don't feel like an idiot. You just made a mistake. Shit happens.

[theologygeek]

But it doesn't imply any sort of racial superiority, at least as far as I can tell. Is that what you are saying, that racism needs to have superiority involved? Sorry I am tired and having trouble following the conversation.

Superior or cultural, but not physical. I'm tired too. LOL But there is nothing else to do when one is recovering from the pukie/fever virus that has gone through the whole house and extended family who don't even live here, so I might as well define racism until I can get some work done. LOL

[theologygeek]

Well I'm done with this thread because jaelh has kicked ass in one post with what took me 8 pages to say. LOL

[Boogalou]

Superior or cultural, but not physical. I'm tired too. LOL But there is nothing else to do when one is recovering from the pukie/fever virus that has gone through the whole house and extended family who don't even live here, so I might as well define racism until I can get some work done. LOL

Oh no! Everyone seems to be getting sick lately. I hope you feel better soon!

[theologygeek]

Oh no! Everyone seems to be getting sick lately. I hope you feel better soon!

Thank you! I know so many people who have either just had or have the same pukie/fever virus. My mother thinks we all have the bird flu. lol

[fluttershies]

Perhaps because that's how it's defined. How old are you? Just wondering.

That's irrelevant. Racism is defined as discrimination on the basis of race, and race includes physical characteristics.