Seven Sisters on pinterest - racist or just weird?

[Terrie]

They haven't shown the superiority necessary for it to be called racism. People throw the term around for more than what it really means.

By that logic, white separatists aren't racist. While they may not be individually racist, this is a reflect of a racist system and white privilege.

[Hisey]

I took a quick look at the board, and I thought most of kids looked Chinese. I didn't see any who looked Japanese or Korean, but then, it was only a quick look.

My own kids are Chinese, so I have learned a little bit about the different racial characteristics in Asia. Within China, there are many different "looks", as I'm sure you know. People can look at my daughter's photo and tell me what part of China she might be from, or whether she is a racial minority, or whatever.

It can be very hard to identify which Asian country a person comes from. There is this test on the internet, which shows you a series of Asian faces, and you are supposed to guess which country they come from. Even Asian people do really badly on this test.

Then there is the possibility that some of those children might be mixed-race. Just like in the US, it is hard (and generally wrong) to try to put people in a box.

So it is really hard for the average person to identify what country an Asian person might come from. I doubt the Seven Sisters can do so.

I thought their collection of faces was immature, more than anything else. And remember, some of the SS are as young as 12 or 13. It's not as ridiculous for a young teen to collect such pictures.

[pomology]

What strikes me as truly, undeniably racist is the separation of Chinese children and African children. Why do they have to be separate boards? Why can't they have one board of cute children? They have one for cute dogs and they don't separate it out by breed. Why can't children just be the same, not categorized and divided by race? Their need to have one board devoted to Chinese children and one devoted to African children is really what seals the racist vibes for me.

On a slightly related note, I actually don't necessarily find it racist if they cannot identify between Asian people of different countries. If they really think all light skinned Asian people are Chinese, then, yes, that's racist, but if they can't necessarily accurately identify all the physical differences between somebody from China or Korea or Vietnam or Singapore or whatever other Asian country with lighter skinned inhabitants, then I'm willing to give them a pass. Some boys on my fencing team like to play a game at tournaments where they try and identify the country of ancestry of any Asian girl they see. They are hardly ignorant of what various Asian people look like. One of them is half Japanese and grew up in Japan (and other than his time in college has always lived in Japan) and the other is an East Asian studies major who has spent a considerable amount of time in China and studying various Asian countries. Additionally, what about people who have ancestry from more than one Asian country? I have a friend who is of both Filipino and Chinese ancestry and I think most people of any ancestry would have difficulty knowing that just from looking at her.

[Witsec7]

I sent them an email last night and got a response immediately. Initially I attempted to explain the racism to them, it did not work. When I replied I told them that there are pervs who have fetishes and their pinter page may just attract those pervs. Jessica said they would be taking the page down. (Which one is she? The eldest?) Her first response was the usual crap that they think 'Chinese' babies are the cutest and they even have friends who have adopted one :roll:

[fluttershies]

I sent them an email last night and got a response immediately. Initially I attempted to explain the racism to them, it did not work. When I replied I told them that there are pervs who have fetishes and their pinter page may just attract those pervs. Jessica said they would be taking the page down. (Which one is she? The eldest?) Her first response was the usual crap that they think 'Chinese' babies are the cutest and they even have friends who have adopted one :roll:

What exactly did they not get about the racism? They said they just thought the babies were cute? Sigh.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Telling different Asian background people's country background by looks is the same as doing it for European people, really. Can you tell Germans from French and Italians? Always? Maybe there's trends, but... not really, and it's the same for Asia too.

That SAID, completely unrelated to the Seven Sisters' post, what bugs me is when people will have a picture where the location IS OBVIOUS, not because of the looks of the people but because of the background, including LANGUAGE in the background, street signs, or people wearing obvious traditional clothing or modern clothing of some significance (say, military uniforms maybe) and mess it up, because they're either doing the "oh, they're Asian, that's Chinese" or (more annoying from my own personal point of view) "oh, it's freaky and nerdy and sexual perverted, it MUST be Japan, haha we nuked them and they're crazy now!" When the "crazy ha weird" toy in question has Chinese writing right there on the damn package, obvious to see, but hey, the people posting it can't tell the languages apart.

It's as if someone posts a picture of a bar in Germany with German language signage in the photo and the waitresses are wearing dirndl type dresses for a festival, and then claims it's French. The looks of the people aren't what tell you they're wrong. People do that ALL the time on the English language internet, for LOL pics or whatever else, and usually it's either "ha, perverted, must be Japan, ah, silly Japan" or else "crazy militarism and army hats! Must be the Chi Coms!"

[theologygeek]

By that logic, white separatists aren't racist. While they may not be individually racist, this is a reflect of a racist system and white privilege.

That wasn't an opinion. It's the definition of racism. I posted the definitions, and none match what the 7 Sisters did. With that said, white separatism being racist is a matter of opinion. They claim all races should be respected and one race isn't superior over another, while others think that it's all a farce.

[theologygeek]

If they really think all light skinned Asian people are Chinese, then, yes, that's racist,

No, it isn't. LOL You are describing a physical trait, not a cultural one. Saying all Chinese people eat rice is racist. Saying all light skinned Asians are Chinese isn't. The first is cultural. The second is physical. Cultural=racist Physical=just ignorant Unless Webster changes the definition, it's not considered racist.

[Esther]

Of course this is racist. I mean, making a pinboard specifically to add pictures of cute babies of *specific exotic ethnicity X* (or rather, cute babies who vaguely resemble that ethnicity, because not all those kids are Chinese) is not exactly a normal pastime. I don't think they have bad intentions, but it's kinda racist and what's more important, it's just plain weird. They kinda weird me out in general. I don't think they're as malicious as some of the other fundies we snark on here - they come across as very sweet and incredibly sheltered. Doesn't mean they can't be racist though. Racism isn't just KKKers lynching black people.

[Terrie]

Her first response was the usual crap that they think 'Chinese' babies are the cutest and they even have friends who have adopted one :roll:

Ah, yes, the racial hierarchy of of "cuteness." Because lighter skinned babies are somehow cuter. As for if that's racism, it seems like the people defending this as non-racist are only familiar with the non-academic definition. From wikipedia:

Some sociologists have defined racism as a system of group privilege. In Portraits of White Racism, David Wellman has defined racism as “culturally sanctioned beliefs, which, regardless of intentions involved, defend the advantages whites have because of the subordinated position of racial minoritiesâ€.[17] Sociologists Noël A. Cazenave and Darlene Alvarez Maddern define racism as “...a highly organized system of 'race'-based group privilege that operates at every level of society and is held together by a sophisticated ideology of color/'race' supremacy. Sellers and Shelton (2003) found that a relationship between racial discrimination and emotional distress was moderated by racial ideology and public regard beliefs. That is, racial centrality appears to promote the degree of discrimination African American young adults perceive whereas racial ideology may buffer the detrimental emotional effects of that discrimination. Racist systems include, but cannot be reduced to, racial bigotry,â€.[18] Sociologist and former American Sociological Association president Joe Feagin argues that the United States can be characterized as a "total racist society"[19]

So, yes, it's racist.

[Anise]

No, it isn't. LOL You are describing a physical trait, not a cultural one. Saying all Chinese people eat rice is racist. Saying all light skinned Asians are Chinese isn't. The first is cultural. The second is physical. Cultural=racist Physical=just ignorant Unless Webster changes the definition, it's not considered racist.

Umm, racism is based on a imperial construction of "us" versus "the other" and attributes superiority or goodness or rationality to the "us". Racism is communicated partly through stereotypes, whether negative, positive, or neutral. Race is a social construct, not a physical reality, so attributed physical differences to a purely social construct is indeed racism. Just saying.

[Terrie]

No, it isn't. LOL You are describing a physical trait, not a cultural one. Saying all Chinese people eat rice is racist. Saying all light skinned Asians are Chinese isn't. The first is cultural. The second is physical. Cultural=racist Physical=just ignorant Unless Webster changes the definition, it's not considered racist.

Please, for you own sake, stop talking. You're embarrassing yourself. Your view of this issue is, at best, out of date, and you're starting to come across as an apologist for racism.

[Deleted03]

Telling different Asian background people's country background by looks is the same as doing it for European people, really. Can you tell Germans from French and Italians? Always? Maybe there's trends, but... not really, and it's the same for Asia too.

"

No you can't.

Plus those kinds of racial sentiments forget diversity and immigration. I know on campus people keep asking french student who are black if they are really french. O_o We all come in all sizes and colors!!!

[jaynie]

That wasn't an opinion. It's the definition of racism. I posted the definitions, and none match what the 7 Sisters did. With that said, white separatism being racist is a matter of opinion. They claim all races should be respected and one race isn't superior over another, while others think that it's all a farce.

Dictionary definitions aren't absolute law. Dictionaries simply record common usage at a particular time, and most people support these definitions of racism because they are nice and simple and don't mention the kind of prejudiced, but subtle, behavior that many people exhibit. However, anti-racism advocates often define this kind of benevolent othering ("aren't they cute!") as racist in the same way that feminists treat the whole "women are just so much more moral and loving than men" shtick as sexist, even though it sounds like a compliment. It's treating people as a race rather than as individuals, and as an exotic amusement at that!

(and that's not even getting into the whole east asian = chinese thing, which as someone pointed out is like saying Caucasian = American. I don't expect people to be able to pick a Japanese person from a Chinese person any more than I expect them to tell a French person from an Italian person. I do expect them to use an appropriately inclusive noun if they don't know.)

[deborahlynn1979]

They seem to have deleted it now....

[theologygeek]

Ah, yes, the racial hierarchy of of "cuteness." Because lighter skinned babies are somehow cuter. As for if that's racism, it seems like the people defending this as non-racist are only familiar with the non-academic definition. From wikipedia:

So, yes, it's racist.

That's the same definition as Webster, while just elaborating on it. Cultural characteristics, yes. Superiority, yes. Would you please bold out where this description talks about physical characteristics being included in racism?

[theologygeek]

However, anti-racism advocates often define this kind of benevolent othering ("aren't they cute!") as racist in the same way that feminists treat the whole "women are just so much more moral and loving than men" shtick as sexist, even though it sounds like a compliment.

That isn't an analogy because the first is physical, and the second is cultural. Racism includes cultural, not physical.

[fluttershies]

That isn't an analogy because the first is physical, and the second is cultural. Racism includes cultural, not physical.

How does this even make sense? Race is constructed around physical characteristics. So it's not racist to make fun of Africans because they tend to have flattened noses, for example?

You're still avoiding the whole point that we're making, which is that 'friendly' Othering of groups one has privilege over (in this case Othering ethnic minorities when one has white privilege) is still wrong despite the outward 'niceness' of it.

[jaynie]

That isn't an analogy because the first is physical, and the second is cultural. Racism includes cultural, not physical.

Where are you getting that idea? I can't find any support for it at all on google -- in fact, the only website I found which mentions that idea, as stated, is this one.

[slickcat79]

That isn't an analogy because the first is physical, and the second is cultural. Racism includes cultural, not physical.

How do you know the SS are even talking exclusively about physical characteristics? If they think the clothes the kids are wearing, the decorations behind them, or the art projects they're doing are cute in addition to their physical traits, is that enough culture to meet your definition? I'm not sure that "cuteness" even counts as a strictly physical description because it has no universal definition.

[Witsec7]

Seven Sisters hello@sevenfarmgirlsisters.com

Mar 5 (2 days ago)

to me

Hello Amil :)

My younger sisters (all of us really, but especially the younger ones) love to study different cultures, and my sister who created that pinboard loves pictures of Asian kids :) We have some friends who adopted a little girl from China and they just love her ;)

Thanks for asking,

Jessica

[theologygeek]

How does this even make sense? Race is constructed around physical characteristics. So it's not racist to make fun of Africans because they tend to have flattened noses, for example?

No. That's just ignorant. Quite mean too, as they don't "tend to have flattened noses." Examples of racism-All African Americans are criminals (cultural). White children are better behaved than African American children (superior). The term is thrown around for everything when it shouldn't be.

[theologygeek]

How do you know the SS are even talking exclusively about physical characteristics? If they think the clothes the kids are wearing, the decorations behind them, or the art projects they're doing are cute in addition to their physical traits, is that enough culture to meet your definition? I'm not sure that "cuteness" even counts as a strictly physical description because it has no universal definition.

The "adorable" and other such descriptions under the pics would be the obvious clue as to what they were referring to.

[theologygeek]

Where are you getting that idea? I can't find any support for it at all on google -- in fact, the only website I found which mentions that idea, as stated, is this one.

I posted the definitions and asked what part of what the Seven Sisters did matched any of the definitions. No one gave an example. You are welcome to find the post with the definitions and let me know how "I heart Chinese children" matches one of the definitions.

[fluttershies]

No. That's just ignorant. Quite mean too, as they don't "tend to have flattened noses." Examples of racism-All African Americans are criminals (cultural). White children are better behaved than African American children (superior). The term is thrown around for everything when it shouldn't be.

Uh, there are differences between Caucasian and African noses:

In any case, you still haven't said why racism is only based on culture. Discrimination based on skin colour is pretty universally considered to be racist.