NON-fundy parents how would you handle this

[Third]

OP - does your work have procedures you are supposed to follow for kids who are acting up? I would seriously consider telling the parents "Deal with your kid this isn't safe" but I worked as a life guard and we literally had to lay down the law since kids could drown.

Leaving from something fun is always an option. It's hard if you have more than 1 child because if you leave then the other child is punished too. I have been given the hairy eyeball because I have put kids in time out in public to not punish the other sibling.

In this house violence is an automatic time out. You are pulled from whatever you are doing and you sit until you serve a time out. We are also those crazy people who 'force' our kid to say sorry if they hurt someone.

Last time I went to a play group the newest thing is NO punishment outside of natural consequences and lots of praise. Praise is a big deal here but sometimes natural consequences don't work [can't let them be hit by cars for running in the road] and sometimes they aren't deterred from unwanted behavior from simply praising the good behavior. Those moms are also against making a kid say sorry - even if the child saying sorry doesn't mean it. It's polite and the other kids feelings were hurt and it's good for them.

[valsa]

Those moms are also against making a kid say sorry - even if the child saying sorry doesn't mean it. It's polite and the other kids feelings were hurt and it's good for them.

I'm all for time out and losing privileges as punishment but I don't believe in forcing kids to say they're sorry. I think that teaches children that lying is okay. I don't think that's good for them. I do support talking to the child about why what they did was wrong and encouraging them to apologize though.

[Third]

I'm all for time out and losing privileges as punishment but I don't believe in forcing kids to say they're sorry. I think that teaches children that lying is okay. I don't think that's good for them. I do support talking to the child about why what they did was wrong and encouraging them to apologize though.

I see it as being consistent with modeling a wanted behavior until it becomes second nature. Most things with kids have to be repeated over and over and over again until it sticks same idea. Keep modeling the expected behavior until it clicks.

[Conuly]

I see it as being consistent with modeling a wanted behavior until it becomes second nature.

When you model a behavior, that means you show it to your child. Being consistent with modeling "saying sorry" means every time you do something that merits an apology, you give it freely and openly. Step on their foot? Say sorry. Forget to pack a cookie in their lunch? Say sorry. Punish them for something, then realize you were wrong and they really DIDN'T do it? Say sorry.

Forcing them to say sorry isn't "modeling a behavior". It's enforcing a behavior... and frankly, given that you can't force a child's mouth to open and shut and their vocal cords to operate, it's like forcing your child to eat or forcing them to sit on the toilet. At best, I think all it does is turn the focus from their actual bad behavior to a new subject that they can always win at if they stay quiet long enough.

I don't make my nieces say sorry very often (sometimes I cave, although I never like the results) and they give genuine and sincere apologies all the time. Sometimes they even write notes.

[Boltingmadonna]

I think all the non-hitting suggestions that have already been made are excellent. Y'all don't need me to tell you how to handle this. But I'm jumping in because I think there are more issues with Pad Lock than just the "light swat on the thigh." Apparently this child he's raising is not his biological son, but the child of some other man who was involved in some kind of polyamorous arrangement with Pad Lock. So, PL, what is your legal relationship with this boy? Do you actually have any parental or guardianship rights? I don't know what the deal is with hitting a child you're not legally related to, but you might want to think that over.

You say that when he acts out toward you with hitting etc., he usually says he's sad and misses his Dad. You speak resentfully of his Dad and describe him as a bad person. I admire that you feel a responsibility to try to take care of this little boy who is not your biological son. But how do you think it feels for him to know he is the son of a man that other adults he depends on don't like and speak badly about? That's got to be causing him a lot of conflict. No wonder he feels frustrated and angry with you at times. Also, he knows his bio-dad just walked out and left him. How does he know you won't do the same? How do YOU know you won't do the same? You have no legal ties to this child, so it's possible you might just change your mind someday and decide he isn't worth it. If you plan to be with him for a lifetime, you need to work extra hard to show him that you mean that. Hitting him on the leg may not be the best way to do that.

It sounds to me as if you and the other adults in this child's life have put him in a very vulnerable and frightening situation. He's not safe. Kids aren't stupid. He knows he isn't safe. He needs the security of permanent parents. Right now, he doesn't have that. You're setting him up for a world of hurt. You and other adults need to act like adults, figure out who is going to be his parent, and make that LEGALLY BINDING AND PERMANENT. You also need to get counseling both for yourselves and him. Learn to understand the issues you all have created for him. Right now, I don't think you do.

[Third]

If he refuses [my younger child doesn't talk] than I say sorry for him because I am sorry he hurt someone because it's not nice to hurt someone. Then we talk about why I said sorry for him.

Not everyone will agree with me and that's fine not everyone parents the same way. :P

[Deleted03]

The spanking debate makes me so sad. I can't talk with my roomate about it, because for her if it works then it's ok. Even if she tells me she was scared of her dad when she was 5. Even if she tells me there were years where her brother was spanked every day. She agreed that it may not be the solution for everyone, but that it worked for both of them. (having to correct your child the same way every single day for a couple of years does not strike me as the method working...). It is incredibly depressing.

If you can raise your kid without spanking, then why would you spank?

[Koala]

http://tulane.edu/news/releases/pr_03122010.cfm

[Koala]

Patrick~

Let's take a look at what you've posted here:

I am not going to lie. There are occasions where I swat my toddler on the thigh but it really is a last ditch effort if he is being particularly difficult and I usually wind up in tears along with him while trying to explain what he did wrong to him.

Can you please address why you cry if you are comfortable with hitting a toddler in the first place? If hitting your toddler is a last ditch effort, is it possible that you have reached your limit and need to take a step back instead of resorting to violence against your baby? Do you think it confuses him when his father hits him and then cries?

He got swatted for hitting me in the face with a metal tube that he took off a drum throne and for things like kicking me in the face repeatedly.

Do you feel that hitting is an appropriate way to teach a toddler not to hit? If it's okay for you (an adult) to hit him (a toddler), then surely it's okay for him to hit you. Maybe it's his last ditch effort to get something across to you.

Swatting and hitting are two entirely different things. I don't even swat him hard enough to cause him pain and most of the time he is telling me I need a time out.

The definition of swatting has been posted. Do you still assert that you are not hitting him?

Why do you think he is telling you that you need a time out?

I am especially surprised that the positive things I said in my post like taking my child to the car and strapping him into his carseat so we could pick his mother up at the door were ignored. Most of the time we orbit the parking lot listening to Gaga or Coldplay.

Do you see how it might be confusing for him that you have such varied reactions to negative behavior? Sometimes you take him to the car for a drive and to listen to some music. Other times you hit his leg and then cry while you tell him why he "made" you do it.

He has never to my knowledge hit another child or person.

On the note of him hitting his friends: He doesn't.

The only person he really hits is me when he is frustrated and sometimes his cousin of the same age when they don't want to share candy with each other.

He got swatted for hitting me in the face with a metal tube that he took off a drum throne and for things like kicking me in the face repeatedly.

Do you see how these 4 statements don't add up? He is already hitting and kicking you. He sometimes hits his cousin as well. The appropriate response to that is not hitting him. He has hit another child and you. Sadly, he probably learned it from you. Would it help if he cried once he was done hitting and explained what you did to make him do it?

The point of it was I am not causing him pain but embarrassment

Do you feel that embarrassing a toddler is an effective means of discipline? Perhaps YOU can show us the peer reviews studies on that.

I am raising a weak man's son for him because he couldn't handle his own responsibilities to his son. I live everyday with the decisions of a weak man and spend most of my time after a weak man ignores his child for an entire weekend so he can go on excursions with his girlfriend doing damage control for a little person that doesn't understand why Daddy won't just come home from Lita's house.

You are raising your child. He is a toddler. His little life has at the very least had some serious instabilities due to his fathers absence. He can't possibly understand what's going on. The idea that you respond to his frustration and feelings of insecurity by hitting him absolutely breaks my heart. He doesn't need physical pain and embarrassment on top of the emotional turmoil.

I also sense a lot of bitterness towards your x (which I understand), but I fear that you are taking it out on this precious baby. The picture of you hitting him to embarrass him, and then crying is not one of stability and good parenting.

[EmmieJ]

You patrick are a boring troll and a lazy lazy man who won't even do a search.

Well, the lazy part was clear from his pathetic excuses as to why it's okay for him, a grown man, to hit a toddler. I'm not sure who I'm angrier with - Pad Lock or the toddler's mother, for allowing Pad to continue smacking her child.

I'm a mother to one child, now 13. During his toddler years, he experienced frequent meltdowns. This is entirely normal and to be expected. During the ages 2-4, children go through many growth spurts, physical, emotional, and mentally. In my experience, when my son was approaching a growth phase and going through one, it would overwhelm him, leading to frequent melt downs. I learned to "go with the flow", always have water and crackers in the car (lots of times, it's hunger that precipitated a meltdown), kept him to a nap and bedtime schedule (tiredness will bring it on too), and limited the time I dragged him in and out of stores. It was a little something called "common sense."

I did swat my little guy a couple times on the diapered butt. These were instances where I reacted in fear when he endangered himself - running out into the street, for example. I was ashamed of my reaction afterward and apologized to him. I reacted in fear and frustration. That's what you do each time you take it upon yourself to hit the toddler who is not even your own child. If anyone raised a hand to my child, they would have received my full wrath. Shame on his mother for allowing it.

When a toddler smacks you with an object, you a) remain calm. Don't have a toddler-sized meltdown of your own. After all, you are supposed to be the grown up in the situation. b) Take away the object he is hitting you with. If it's his hand or foot, you take their hand or foot gently in your hand, say "no hitting" and then remove them from the situation. That usually means taking them to another room, perhaps putting them in their crib for a moment or two (that's enough for a toddler), or otherwise physically removing them from the area where the incident happened. c) if the tantrum continues, you REMAIN CALM. You don't resort to hitting. You pick up the child, tell them quietly but firmly "no hitting" and put them in their crib or other safe place for a brief time out. If no other option exists, let them have a full blown melt down on the floor, complete with kicking and screaming. Your job at this point is to simply make sure they don't hurt themselves. Remove breakable items, etc. Let them scream it out and be there to pick up the pieces when they calm down. Soothe him, tell him it's okay now, get him a glass of milk or water and something to eat if he wants it. It's over. Move on.

See, no hitting was needed. In the above scenario, you behaved like a loving adult, not a lazy, easily frustrated man-child.

If the child you describe is repeatedly having melt downs in the store - you and his mother are doing something wrong. The two most common things to trigger a melt down are tiredness and hunger. His mother ought to be examining her parenting techniques and asking herself why her toddler is having repeated melt downs in the store. She also ought to be telling you to keep your hands off her child.

Finally, in my roundabout manner. If the mother of this child was "misbehaving" and fussing over something, would you believe it okay to hit her on the thigh or anywhere else? A toddler has not developed control over his or her emotions yet, which should mean it is even less okay to strike a toddler than to strike an adult who allegedly has full use of their logic and emotions. Ugh. I get so tired of people finding excuses for hitting children.

[debrand]

I like threads like these because a lot of parents resort to spanking because they don't know what else to do. They were spanked and didn't see other types of parenting modeled for them.

Grandparents can be very annoying about this type of punishment. My mom used to tell me that if I loved my kids, I would spank them. Because my oldest son was a high needs, hyper active child, I heard over and over and over that if I just spanked him, he would be better.

Not spanking means that you have to be very proactive. You can't sit on your butt and ask over and over for your child to listen.

An example. One time at the park, my son and another boy climbed the top of a slide. The mother of the second boy called up to her son to come down from the slide. He did not. She must have stood there for ten minutes, begging the boy to come down. Her voice was very sweet and soft. When I decided that I wanted Josh, I told him to come down. Copying the other child, he just laughed at me. So, I climbed the stairs and took him down. I told him, "Son, I will always come for you, so don't ignore me again." My voice was not sweet and soft but neither did I yell. I let him know that I meant business and he understood.

[debrand]

How would any of you deal with a child running away from you? It is so dangerous for the kid to run from their parent. What if they run into traffic?

My kids never ran from me, but I've seen other children that have. My nephew ran from his mom in the store and obviously thought it was a game. He was only three but what if he had run into something glass or hurt himself?

There must be ways to handle such a situation without spanking.

[Deleted03]

I like threads like these because a lot of parents resort to spanking because they don't know what else to do. They were spanked and didn't see other types of parenting modeled for them.

Grandparents can be very annoying about this type of punishment. My mom used to tell me that if I loved my kids, I would spank them. Because my oldest son was a high needs, hyper active child, I heard over and over and over that if I just spanked him, he would be better.

Not spanking means that you have to be very proactive. You can't sit on your butt and ask over and over for your child to listen.

An example. One time at the park, my son and another boy climbed the top of a slide. The mother of the second boy called up to her son to come down from the slide. He did not. She must have stood there for ten minutes, begging the boy to come down. Her voice was very sweet and soft. When I decided that I wanted Josh, I told him to come down. Copying the other child, he just laughed at me. So, I climbed the stairs and took him down. I told him, "Son, I will always come for you, so don't ignore me again." My voice was not sweet and soft but neither did I yell. I let him know that I meant business and he understood.

debrand, how did you deal with your mother's positions then? Did you leave the kids with her? Did you clear out beforehand that there would be no spanking the kids? This is a situation where I imagine lots of conflicts if I have kids. I know my mom does not do that anymore, but for instance, I would not leave them with my roomate if she really can't wrap her head around the fact that it's bad. What do you do when grandparents or other family members think it's ok to spank or swat/hit, whatever?

[Conuly]

How would any of you deal with a child running away from you? It is so dangerous for the kid to run from their parent. I admit it is the one thing that I can't think of a good way to handle such a situation.

Confine your kid to a stroller, carrier, hand-holding, or leash* until they learn not to run away further than you allow. Every time you go out, remind them that it's dangerous to run too far ahead or into traffic. If your child is at an age where they're likely to put themselves into genuine danger in a heartbeat, you take measures to prevent that. You don't wait until after they've risked their lives and then, if they survive, punish them.

I remember just a month ago reading a study that showed that children who were reminded not to run off and who were redirected if they tried learned faster than those who were spanked in punishment for running off. I'm trying to find that study now via google, but I'm not having any luck.

* Yes, I said it. Your kid probably doesn't care, and they certainly get more freedom than if you're restricting them in any of the other listed ways. Plus, their little arms don't hurt from being held above their heads.

[valsa]

How would any of you deal with a child running away from you? It is so dangerous for the kid to run from their parent. What if they run into traffic?

My kids never ran from me, but I've seen other children that have. My nephew ran from his mom in the store and obviously thought it was a game. He was only three but what if he had run into something glass or hurt himself?

There must be ways to handle such a situation without spanking.

I'm not a parent but have seen and read accounts of parents who have what I think of as "The Voice." There's a certain tone of voice, sometimes combined with a word (I've seen the word "Danger!" used in several cases), that gets their children's attention in dangerous situations just as well as hitting them does. Of course, that requires parenting in a way that precludes screaming at them all the time (I've noticed parents who spank are also usually the ones screaming at their kids whenever they're not spanking them), so that the child will know a raised voice means business instead of business-as-usual.

[Nesomja]

Debrand, I can't see how spanking helps when a child runs away towards the road, they are running away, by definition they are not close enough to spank them. I run after, grab them to keep them safe and then keep them close. Why would I hit them in that situation unless I believed that hitting works better than other forms of discipline, which I don't? I would see it as a failure on my part to anticipate danger and might restrain the child in a pushchair if I had one but would not tell them off or hit them. I would explain why roads are dangerous and why it is important to stay close to me and listen. I have a very defiant active son aged 3.7, I have never hit him and never will.

He would be the hitting pushing child in the OP. 20 children at a party would be my nightmare. He gets over stimulated very easily and cannot control his behaviour, he just doesn't have the impulse control. I would warn, maybe try 'time in' and then leave. But I would also plan ahead as I would know he would struggle- so I might arrive late and just plan to stay for 30 mins. We never have parties with more than 5 children, it is just too much. Since I would know in advance we might have problems due to the environment I would not shout or punish, but we would definitely talk beforehand about acceptable party behaviour. There would be a dreadful tantrum when we left, this would not be an event I would look forward to!

[debrand]

debrand, how did you deal with your mother's positions then? Did you leave the kids with her? Did you clear out beforehand that there would be no spanking the kids? This is a situation where I imagine lots of conflicts if I have kids. I know my mom does not do that anymore, but for instance, I would not leave them with my roomate if she really can't wrap her head around the fact that it's bad. What do you do when grandparents or other family members think it's ok to spank or swat/hit, whatever?

Sadly, I did not come to the conclusion not to spank until my two youngest were around seven and nine :( My husband was in the military and I rarely lived in the same state as my mom so it wasn't much of an issue.

We did not spank a lot but, I still feel guilty that we did at all. I don't think that my boys are better behaved then my younger daughters.

My oldest son does NOT spank his child and will not leave his son alone with his mother-in-law. She is a sweet woman but she does spank and pressures my son to do so. Both my son and daughter-in-law want us to move closer so that they have someone they trust to watch my grandson occasionally. So, these threads help me come up with solutions before they happen. I want to honor and encourage my son's decision not to spank

[2xx1xy1JD]

How would any of you deal with a child running away from you? It is so dangerous for the kid to run from their parent. What if they run into traffic?

My kids never ran from me, but I've seen other children that have. My nephew ran from his mom in the store and obviously thought it was a game. He was only three but what if he had run into something glass or hurt himself?

There must be ways to handle such a situation without spanking.

With kid #1, we had a strict rule that she ALWAYS had to hold my hand the moment we stepped out of the apartment. We lived on a very busy downtown street. She internalized this rule.

With kid #2, followed soon after by kid #3, we had a runner. I quickly learned that a double stroller was the only option. I simply couldn't go out if the kids weren't restrained.

It's a developmental phase. By the time she was 3, kid #2 was no longer a runner.

[Wolfie]

Confine your kid to a stroller, carrier, hand-holding, or leash* until they learn not to run away further than you allow.

I think that leashes are one of the historical techniques that really is a good idea. (Apron strings were leashes built into a pinafore, and all children wore pinafores and dresses until they were at least potty trained) Now we can do some child proofing, but they couldn't back then, so using a leash (and yes they'd tie the kid to things to keep them in a small area- at least now we have baby gates and playpens.) made sense.

[Mommy22alyns]

I'd give a stern warning and if they continued we'd sit out or leave.

For the runners, they'd be picked up and carried or confined to cart or stroller.

[Koala]

How would any of you deal with a child running away from you? It is so dangerous for the kid to run from their parent. What if they run into traffic?

My kids never ran from me, but I've seen other children that have. My nephew ran from his mom in the store and obviously thought it was a game. He was only three but what if he had run into something glass or hurt himself?

There must be ways to handle such a situation without spanking.

You have to resign yourself to carrying them or putting them in the stroller. I had 2 that were only 15 months apart, so I either put one in the sling and one on my hip, or I put both of them in the double stroller. If they were in a situation where it was dangerous to run from me they didn't need to be down anyway. It's really no different than child proofing your house. You put away things that are dangerous, you don't hit the child to prevent them from touching the dangerous items.

You also have to remember that when spankers use the "but what if they run into the road" argument they presume that hitting as the only effective way to prevent their child from running into the road. That, of course is simply untrue. We actually have no reason to believe it's effective at all. People who hit their children often do it over and over again for the same reason, so hitting is by no means a permanent deterrent.

[Koala]

What do you do when grandparents or other family members think it's ok to spank or swat/hit, whatever?

Not Debrand, but both my husband and I were hit by our parents. Because they have never shown remorse for the behavior, they have never been left alone with our children. These are otherwise good people, and they are respectful (even admire) our choice to never hit. They don't, however, see the wrong in what they did, and because of that I can't trust that in an extreme situation they might not resort to it again. It's unfortunate, but I don't take chances where my children are concerned.

[sassyNoz47]

even though my parents spanked me they wouldn't touch my kids, they don't even get on to my kids.

As for the runners....I have one I'm still working on teaching her not to run off. Its constant supervison no exceptions we never know when she will just run. Last school year she was on the play ground with 4 adults and 7 kids. They discovered she was missing, she got around all the gates finally they found her. She had crossed a football field and was in a 12 ft ditch, 3ft of standing water :(

[Conuly]

People who hit their children often do it over and over again for the same reason, so hitting is by no means a permanent deterrent.

One line you see a lot when people start talking about hitting is That One Guy who declares "When I was a kid, my parents didn't hit me that much except this ONE time when I got the crap beat out of me. No, I don't remember why they did it, but you can bet I never did it again! LOL!"

I always want to ask (and sometimes DO ask) how, if they don't remember why they got severely beaten (by their standards) that one time, they know for sure they never did it again. Maybe they did and don't remember!

She had crossed a football field and was in a 12 ft ditch, 3ft of standing water :(

At least she's all right! (She is all right, right?)

[sassyNoz47]

She had crossed a football field and was in a 12 ft ditch, 3ft of standing water :(

At least she's all right! (She is all right, right?)