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NON-fundy parents how would you handle this


Didi

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Thanks everyone for all of the replies - that is basically what I was thinking.

My co-worker could tell I was getting frustrated by the end and she said she thought I should have ignored the behavior and if they hit people then eventually their moms would have to intervene. I guess I have been and older sister and nanny too long :-p :)

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Side note: I know I probably come across as very passionate about this subject - that's because I am. I wish someone has spoken up for me when I was a child, but they didn't.

We are so quick (and rightly so) to protect women from spousal abuse. My own mother was abused, so believe me when I say that I see the importance of that. What I don't understand is why children don't receive that same protection. The most vulnerable people in our society are the very ones that it is legal to hit. We wouldn't allow people to treat animals the way we allow them to treat children.

If a child is hit with a wooden board, or a belt, or even a hand, we have HUGE segments of our society who honestly think nothing of it. That's horrifying to me. I can not fathom it. What the fuck is wrong with our society that we have no compassion for the helplessness that it is to be a child???? Why do we give their parents a license to hit them?

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Child intercepted, eye contact and kneeling to adjust to their height. Explanation and consequence: "I just saw you hit Suzie. We do not hit people. If you hit anyone else, we will be leaving. Do you understand?" Proceed from there.

Sometimes I'll demand apologized when I'm babysitting or nannying, like "Apologize to Suzie." but it usually is fake and I don't think the kid learns to sincerely apologize, so I've dropped that.

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I agree with what everyone else has said about taking the child aside to explain, then time out (away from the madness, outside or a different room) then leaving the party. But you know what really works? Consistency. If the child knows what's expected, then it's easier for them to listen after the first warning. If mom lets the kid go wild at a party, but then expects good behavior elsewhere, then the kid is confused as to how they're allowed to act.

My oldest is 3, so I'm not a parenting expert by far, but I do know that parents that use the same routine (similar to what everyone else has said) and don't freak out and start smacking, usually have pretty well behaved children, even if they do get wound up and need reminders to calm down. Kids quickly learn what's expected and what the consequences will be. If the parent is clear and enforces the same rules every time, the kids will know they can't push it or the fun ends.

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one more vote here for stern warning - in private - followed by a swift exit if behavior is repeated.

i have never seen the repeated calls of "dexter, stop that" to ever do anything but buy the kid some time.

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A review of expected behavior prior to the party, acting out would call for a time out, but hitting, kicking and hurting others would result in immediately leaving. If this were not possible, the 'little darling' would be sitting next to me for the duration. What I don't understand is why the mothers of the children who are being hurt, don't get up and deliver the hitter, kicker, and hurter to his mother. A couple of times of that happening and that type of mother might be embarrassed enough to get up off their duffs and take charge.

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I would have done Audrey's "3 strikes and you're out." The boys were probably hyped up on soda, sweets, excitement, and then feeding off each other's frantic energies. What at least one parent of those two boys should have done to alleviate the situation was take their child aside for some quiet talking, allow them time to settle down, then give them a warning that if the behavior continued, they would have to leave. Then leave if it did continue, without making a huge deal. Simply pick them up (at age 4, that's still possible), carry them out (kicking and screaming if need be) and go home.

Believe me, once is usually sufficient.

I had a similar incident happen in Target once with my son who had an absolute meltdown. I left a cart full of items and carried him out, as he screamed at the top of his lungs and kicked. Absolutely embarrassing, and I was wondering if someone would call CPS on me. He wouldn't stay clipped in his car seat, so I hit the door locks and we sat there while he screamed and screamed some more. At intervals, I told him we would go home when he calmed down and let me fasten his seat.

It took awhile but he did finally shout and cry himself out. I really felt for the little guy, he was so miserable. I fastened his car seat and we went home, and that was that. But it never happened again to that degree. Sure, he might fuss somewhat in the store or elsewhere, but he also knew that if I said we were leaving, it meant we were leaving. It's a shame that those boys' parents did give their own children the comfort and security of known boundaries. Maybe they'll think it over and plan ahead for next time (cuz I can almost guarantee them it will happen again).

I made a decision when my son was quite young that I would not spank, and would put effort into finding other workable solutions to behavior issues. I don't think spanking does anything but reinforce: "I'm bigger and stronger, so I get to hit you."

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I'm not sure why I don't have tramatic memories.... it was the 70's and I can't even think of how many times it happened. Less then a handful, however my grandma had a ruler she was quick to spank some of my cousins. Back then our school principle also spanked....he pulled kids out of where-ever they were by thier HAIR I'll never forget seeing a class mate picked up through the school bleachers by his hair and wisked off for a spanking. That being said my mom I clearly remember had everything in writting that the school could not spank me or my brother. She is why my grandma never spanked me either .. odd I guess it was ok for mom to do it but never anyone else. By the time my youngest brother was born in 1983 I don't remember him ever getting spanked. It was just the norm every where in the 70's all my friends and family had the wooden paddles hanging in the kitchens :(. In the 80's they started using chores to punish us...working in the garden was torture.

I've always did a time out, but with teens I use grounding or taking away the electronic devices (works the best)! My yougest isn't able to sit in a time out but she doesn't have a understanding of danger etc. Since she isn't verbal most of the time her actions are result of sensory overload, boredom, or frustration that she isn't able to communicate. With her I pick my battles usually the most I can do is hold her on my lap for 5 minutes or so. If the behaviors continue I repeat.. most of the time she gets it. Always being eye level and trying to make eye contact and using less words as possible are always very helpful to.

My 2 oldest often fought and once they did it in the car. I was so fed up I pulled into a parking lot made them get out of the car and stand on the side walk and hug each other for 5 minutes. Looking back it was drastic and everyone driving by stared at them but they never fought in the car again.

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I would have done Audrey's "3 strikes and you're out." The boys were probably hyped up on soda, sweets, excitement, and then feeding off each other's frantic energies. What at least one parent of those two boys should have done to alleviate the situation was take their child aside for some quiet talking, allow them time to settle down, then give them a warning that if the behavior continued, they would have to leave. Then leave if it did continue, without making a huge deal. Simply pick them up (at age 4, that's still possible), carry them out (kicking and screaming if need be) and go home.

Believe me, once is usually sufficient.

I had a similar incident happen in Target once with my son who had an absolute meltdown. I left a cart full of items and carried him out, as he screamed at the top of his lungs and kicked. Absolutely embarrassing, and I was wondering if someone would call CPS on me. He wouldn't stay clipped in his car seat, so I hit the door locks and we sat there while he screamed and screamed some more. At intervals, I told him we would go home when he calmed down and let me fasten his seat.

It took awhile but he did finally shout and cry himself out. I really felt for the little guy, he was so miserable. I fastened his car seat and we went home, and that was that. But it never happened again to that degree. Sure, he might fuss somewhat in the store or elsewhere, but he also knew that if I said we were leaving, it meant we were leaving. It's a shame that those boys' parents did give their own children the comfort and security of known boundaries. Maybe they'll think it over and plan ahead for next time (cuz I can almost guarantee them it will happen again).

I made a decision when my son was quite young that I would not spank, and would put effort into finding other workable solutions to behavior issues. I don't think spanking does anything but reinforce: "I'm bigger and stronger, so I get to hit you."

Amen to the bolded. My son threw a tantrum in a restaurant once and I told him we were going to go outside and sit in the truck until the rest of the family was done eating. He threw an epic fit while we sat in the truck waiting, but since then, it hasn't been a problem because he knows I mean it when I say "Cut it out or we're leaving."

Nothing irritates me quite like parents that throw out threat after thread and never follow through. (Threat being something along the lines of "Settle down or we're going home" - not actual threats of bodily harm.)

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What I don't understand is why the mothers of the children who are being hurt, don't get up and deliver the hitter, kicker, and hurter to his mother.

Because the people who are inclined to let their kids do this sort of thing overlap significantly with the people who through major hissy fits if somebody dares correct their child's behavior.

This is, of course, bullshit. Yes, you shouldn't smack other people's children who happen to sneeze in your presence. However, if their little hellion is beating up on other kids, telling them to stop is perfectly fine. If they're playing roughly in the toddler section of the local playground, quite aside from the fact that they shouldn't be in that area if they've aged out and won't keep an eye out for the little ones, it's okay for somebody to remind them that they need to be aware of the other, smaller children. If they're climbing on the garages in the back of your house and jumping off the roof (a yearly event in my neighborhood) it's not morally wrong to ask in a pointed tone if their mother is aware and to remind them that you know where they live. And so on.

If you intend to leave the raising of your children to the general public, you have to accept that the general public will tell your kids to knock it off once in a while. If you're not okay with this, stay with your kid until you are!

(And these people don't always pop up just because you yell at their child or something. I once had somebody scream at me for saying to her eight year old child, who had cut in front of me with his two friends, "I'm sorry, dear, I think I was here first." Of course, she also thought I shouldn't care that THREE people cut me in line! :roll: And I didn't even think he was misbehaving, I thought he just hadn't realized I was standing on the line. I told her at the time, if her eight year old isn't mature enough to be left alone near other people or to speak five words to them, then she needs to hold his hand and be WITH her kid.)

But yeah, those people are really annoying and sometimes you don't have the mental energy to deal with them, even though I generally find they back down if their kid's behavior is bad enough. (And usually their KID backs down once you use the magic phrase "Do I need to tell your parents how you're acting?")

Note: I'm assuming you act civilly towards other people's children. Telling them to stop, asking them to leave (where applicable), and threatening to report their behavior to their guardians is fine. Screaming at them generally isn't, even if you think they sorely deserve it.

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When DS was that age, and behaved like that, we would leave. I only had to do that about three times before he got it.

I would also prep him before hand, "Can you tell me how big kids act at birthday parties at The Little Gym? Great! Now you know how to behave! And what happens if you don't? Right! We leave, without having cake."

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Because the people who are inclined to let their kids do this sort of thing overlap significantly with the people who through major hissy fits if somebody dares correct their child's behavior.

Yeah, not a parent yet. But I have been out in public with children I'm responsible for.

When it was the kid I was with acting up, down to their level, get eye contact, tell them what they were doing wrong and what they needed to do to correct it or else we were leaving. Second warning the same way (I was working with foster kids, sometimes it too two warning for them to really understand) Third time we left. Full stop.

Somebody Else's kid was acting up:

HEY. YOU NEED TO GET OVER HERE AND LOOK AFTER YOUR CHILD BEFORE THEY HURT SOMEONE. THANK YOU

Calm tone, polite words, a willingness to be disliked, and voice that can be heard on the other side of the marina. Always worked, they would glare at me and turn beet red and go discipline their child.

Embarrassment, it''s the great motivator.

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Thanks everyone for all of the replies - that is basically what I was thinking.

My co-worker could tell I was getting frustrated by the end and she said she thought I should have ignored the behavior and if they hit people then eventually their moms would have to intervene. I guess I have been and older sister and nanny too long :-p :)

Honestly, you should have some policy in place to stop it- if one of the kids were to actually hurt another kid, it's opening the business up to being sued, as well as the employees.

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Clues #1 and #2 that you shouldn't hit your child.

Regardless of what the punishment was I would have done it outside. I'm not going to make a spectacle out of my child to prove a point. Often times when he is being unruly in the grocery store I just take him to the car and get us ready to pick her up at the door.

Clue #1 that you should not take things out of context with out reading the entire post.

You stopped reading at me swatting him and missed the part where I said I usually just take him to the car. He got swatted for hitting me in the face with a metal tube that he took off a drum throne and for things like kicking me in the face repeatedly. It's not often and I don't enjoy it. I grew up in a fundie home where I regularly got beat with leather belts and switches the size of my fingers. I hardly think a rare swat here and there compares to that kind of abuse.

Exactly. I think those situations should be a sign to Pad Lock to step back and explain to herself what she's doing wrong.

Please refer to the above paragraph. Also Pad is short for Patrick. I'm a he not a she though I did dress as a she for Halloween this year and get in a shouting match with a street preacher that compared the President to pornography.

You are an adult. Hitting a toddler should never be your last ditch effort. When he cries (as a result of you hitting him), the answer is NOT to cry with him and explain what HE did to make you hit him. If he becomes exasperated with his little friends do you want him to hit and then explain to them how their behavior made him do it? When you have resorted to violence (and that's what all hitting is), you need to be thinking about what YOU did wrong, not what he did wrong.

Swatting and hitting are two entirely different things. I don't even swat him hard enough to cause him pain and most of the time he is telling me I need a time out. As I said before I grew up in a home where I was beaten with leather belts, switches and sometimes whatever was close at hand. My particular [sarcasm]favorite[/sarcasm] implement was a metal spatula pulled out of a frying pan because I asked one too many times when supper would be done. I really don't think a swat on the thigh begins to compare to that kind of abuse or constitutes being called violence.

Violence is being beaten with a belt because you got a D on your report card. Violence is being slapped across the face for crying because you got sent to bed early so your Dad could watch some R rated movie that he wouldn't let you watch based on his Christian morality. Violence is being beaten with a switch the size of your finger because you were at the age of seven supposed to be watching your five year old brother who tripped and busted his lip.

Perspective is everything and if you think a light swat on the thigh on very rare occasions even begins to compare to this I invite you to PM me and we can further discuss this.

I am especially surprised that the positive things I said in my post like taking my child to the car and strapping him into his carseat so we could pick his mother up at the door were ignored. Most of the time we orbit the parking lot listening to Gaga or Coldplay. I am especially surprised that people took offense at me saying that punishment should be delivered outside regardless of the punishment so as not to make a public spectacle of my child which I would find to be more cruel than simply taking him to the car.

On the note of him hitting his friends: He doesn't. The only person he really hits is me when he is frustrated and sometimes his cousin of the same age when they don't want to share candy with each other. He has never to my knowledge hit another child or person. I know you are going to argue that he hits me because I swat him but taken in context that he really only does it after the one weekend a month that his father who walked out on our polyamorous family because he didn't want his own son;I think that puts it a little more in perspective. Most of the time when he hits me I just ask him what is wrong and his usual response is "I'm sad. I miss Daddy."

Perspective and context go a long way. I was mentally and physically abused to the point of paranoid delusion. If you're really honestly comparing rare light swats on the thigh to the kind of abuse that I was subjected to as a child then I am really not the one with a problem here.

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I'd take my little monster outside, tell him why I had removed him from the party and give him a chance to go back in if he promised to behave better. Then, if he misbehaved again, we'd be on our way home - no more party for him.

If the misbehaving child is mine, I would do the above. If the misbehaving child is not mine, mine would be "tomato staked" for safety.

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I don't even swat him hard enough to cause him pain and most of the time he is telling me I need a time out.

Honey, you are the adult, you shouldn't need a child to tell you when you need a time out. If you really do you are in serious need of help or operate under a very flawed system of logic.

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Clue #1 that you should not take things out of context with out reading the entire post.

You stopped reading at me swatting him and missed the part where I said I usually just take him to the car. He got swatted for hitting me in the face with a metal tube that he took off a drum throne and for things like kicking me in the face repeatedly. It's not often and I don't enjoy it. I grew up in a fundie home where I regularly got beat with leather belts and switches the size of my fingers. I hardly think a rare swat here and there compares to that kind of abuse.

Good try, but I read all of your post. THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. It doesn't matter if you call it swatting, hitting, spanking, or beating, THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. It doesn't matter if he hits you first, because he's a toddler, not an adult, and THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. It doesn't matter that you were beaten in your fundie upbringing, because THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. It doesn't matter that most of the time you just take him to the car and lock yourselves in there, because you admitted that you sometimes hit your toddler, and THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. If you are SO upset at your own actions that you are crying because you hit your toddler, then you'd think that you'd eventually realize that THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. If you have to hit your toddler in private because you know it would "make a spectacle of him", you'd think that you'd eventually realize that THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER.

Stick around FJ for a while and hopefully you'll learn some reliable parenting techniques and realize that THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER.

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Swatting and hitting are two entirely different things. I don't even swat him hard enough to cause him pain and most of the time he is telling me I need a time out. As I said before I grew up in a home where I was beaten with leather belts, switches and sometimes whatever was close at hand. My particular [sarcasm]favorite[/sarcasm] implement was a metal spatula pulled out of a frying pan because I asked one too many times when supper would be done. I really don't think a swat on the thigh begins to compare to that kind of abuse or constitutes being called violence.

Violence is being beaten with a belt because you got a D on your report card. Violence is being slapped across the face for crying because you got sent to bed early so your Dad could watch some R rated movie that he wouldn't let you watch based on his Christian morality. Violence is being beaten with a switch the size of your finger because you were at the age of seven supposed to be watching your five year old brother who tripped and busted his lip.

Perspective is everything and if you think a light swat on the thigh on very rare occasions even begins to compare to this I invite you to PM me and we can further discuss this.

I am especially surprised that the positive things I said in my post like taking my child to the car and strapping him into his carseat so we could pick his mother up at the door were ignored. Most of the time we orbit the parking lot listening to Gaga or Coldplay. I am especially surprised that people took offense at me saying that punishment should be delivered outside regardless of the punishment so as not to make a public spectacle of my child which I would find to be more cruel than simply taking him to the car.

On the note of him hitting his friends: He doesn't. The only person he really hits is me when he is frustrated and sometimes his cousin of the same age when they don't want to share candy with each other. He has never to my knowledge hit another child or person. I know you are going to argue that he hits me because I swat him but taken in context that he really only does it after the one weekend a month that his father who walked out on our polyamorous family because he didn't want his own son;I think that puts it a little more in perspective. Most of the time when he hits me I just ask him what is wrong and his usual response is "I'm sad. I miss Daddy."

Perspective and context go a long way. I was mentally and physically abused to the point of paranoid delusion. If you're really honestly comparing rare light swats on the thigh to the kind of abuse that I was subjected to as a child then I am really not the one with a problem here.

Oh jesus...another one here to tell us how spanking isn't hitting.

Patrick, no one here is comparing the way you were abused to the way you hit your child. Just because you don't hit your child as much, as hard, as often, or with various objects does NOT excuse you hitting him. There is no context or perspective that will make it okay for you (an adult man) to hit a toddler. Not hitting most of the time does not excuse hitting some of the time. Violence covers a broad range of experiences, but yes, any form of hitting (especially and adult hitting a child - a toddler in your case) is violence. Your upbringing is no excuse. The fact that your child is going through the loss of his father makes it even worse and hitting his leg is never going to help.

I also find it bizarre that you are hitting him because he hit you. You are the parent. How is that teaching him not to hit? You are doing the very thing you are supposed to be teaching him not to do. IF it's okay for you to "swat" him on the leg, then why can't he "swat" you on the face??? :roll: Again, we are talking about a toddler.

PS. You are contradicting yourself already.

On the note of him hitting his friends: He doesn't.

He has never to my knowledge hit another child or person.

The only person he really hits is me when he is frustrated and sometimes his cousin of the same age when they don't want to share candy with each other. I know you are going to argue that he hits me because I swat him

1 of these things is not like the others...

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Good try, but I read all of your post. THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. It doesn't matter if you call it swatting, hitting, spanking, or beating, THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. It doesn't matter if he hits you first, because he's a toddler, not an adult, and THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. It doesn't matter that you were beaten in your fundie upbringing, because THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. It doesn't matter that most of the time you just take him to the car and lock yourselves in there, because you admitted that you sometimes hit your toddler, and THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. If you are SO upset at your own actions that you are crying because you hit your toddler, then you'd think that you'd eventually realize that THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. If you have to hit your toddler in private because you know it would "make a spectacle of him", you'd think that you'd eventually realize that THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER.

Stick around FJ for a while and hopefully you'll learn some reliable parenting techniques and realize that THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER.

Well said.

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Honey, you are the adult, you shouldn't need a child to tell you when you need a time out. If you really do you are in serious need of help or operate under a very flawed system of logic.

What are you trying to accomplish then? What is the purpose of hitting his leg? It doesn't cause pain, and as experiencedd said, it makes him think you need a time out (which is spot on btw).

I see this a lot. Fundies and other nuts claiming they hit their kids, but it doesn't hurt. What the hell kind of idiots do they take us for?

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I'm in the single warning followed by immediate exit if the behavior persists camp. My warning is usually along the lines of, "We discussed appropriate manners before we came. Your behavior does not need to dictated by the behavior of other children. You tell me what the expectation is...(Pause and let them remind themselves) If you cannot govern yourself, we are leaving." I have five kids, and am a single mom to boot, so I understand the temptation to "get to the end of my rope." But, I'm not a spanker. Punishments like spanking may have an immediate impact on behavior, but they don't teach long term self-governance. I believe life has enough natural consequences built in to it that we need not impose corpreal punishment. Spanking can cause aggression to leak out in other areas as well and I'm not surprised simple because it increases frustration on the part of the spanked. I know when I can't understand the logic of a consequence in my life I get very irritated. I can't imagine how much more pissed I'd be if that irritation was the result of someone I loved whacking me. As for what to do about siblings, I've been the parent who hastily arranges for one of my kids to get a lift home, or asks the parent if I can return to pick up so I can leave with a misbehaving child.

Toddlers who are hit, learn to hit.

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Honey, you are the adult, you shouldn't need a child to tell you when you need a time out. If you really do you are in serious need of help or operate under a very flawed system of logic.

Thank you for missing the point of that entirely. The point of it was I am not causing him pain but embarrassment and out of frustration he says things like you need a time out. I never said that I needed him to point it out to me and I would invite you to quote where I did. If you can then you can comment on my mental stability. Until then I will leave that up to the licensed professional who prescribe the plethora of pills I have to take because of parents who partook in real and actual mental and physical abuse.

Also when presenting a straw man argument one should not try to call into question the logic of another.

Good try, but I read all of your post. THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. It doesn't matter if you call it swatting, hitting, spanking, or beating, THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. It doesn't matter if he hits you first, because he's a toddler, not an adult, and THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. It doesn't matter that you were beaten in your fundie upbringing, because THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. It doesn't matter that most of the time you just take him to the car and lock yourselves in there, because you admitted that you sometimes hit your toddler, and THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. If you are SO upset at your own actions that you are crying because you hit your toddler, then you'd think that you'd eventually realize that THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER. If you have to hit your toddler in private because you know it would "make a spectacle of him", you'd think that you'd eventually realize that THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER.

Stick around FJ for a while and hopefully you'll learn some reliable parenting techniques and realize that THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO HIT YOUR TODDLER.

I appreciate your flagrant use of caps lock and bold but they really don't make you more correct just more obnoxious. It really does matter that most of the time he is taken to the car and put into a soothing environment. Repeating the same mantra over and over doesn't prove anything other than your argument had no real substance in the first place. I would think eventually you would realize that just because an opinion differed from yours that it was not wrong.

I am more than a little bit flabbergasted that you really think there is a comparison to a light swat on the thigh and the kind of abuse I was subjected to a child. So you can repeat yourself ad nauseum but that doesn't really, as I said, prove anything more than your argument has no real substance in the first place.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/swatting

: to hit with a sharp slapping blow usually with an instrument

Thank you for enlightening me on the definition of the word. I really had no idea what it meant until just now. I have a definition for you as well.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adjective

: of, relating to, or functioning as an adjective

i.e.

light swat on the thigh

That would be the adjective clause that the definition is referring too. The modifier light implies that the swat lacked significant force such as a light tap on the shoulder, a light hand on the pencil, a light tone to the conversation.

Please save your moral crusades. I grew up with them. I was a victim of them. I am immune to them.

What are you trying to accomplish then? What is the purpose of hitting his leg? It doesn't cause pain, and as experiencedd said, it makes him think you need a time out (which is spot on btw).

I see this a lot. Fundies and other nuts claiming they hit their kids, but it doesn't hurt. What the hell kind of idiots do they take us for?

Assumption is a funny thing. I'm not a fundie. I think Christianity is a crock. It is an amalgamation of many other religions and has always been used to enforce theocratic power upon society. If you really must know my religious beliefs I am a Pagan who worships science and nature. I do not now nor will I even believe in some man in the sky.

I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish here. You speak as though you have first hand experience of what I have done other than a few words on a forum. I don't expect you to like my opinion but honestly I grew up having the opinions of other people shoved down my throat. I promised myself I would never again let that happen so if you think comparing me to a fundie really got you anywhere with me; as Dr. House would say, "Just because you think I am wrong is no excuse for you to stop thinking."

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Thank you for missing the point of that entirely. The point of it was I am not causing him pain but embarrassment and out of frustration he says things like you need a time out. I never said that I needed him to point it out to me and I would invite you to quote where I did. If you can then you can comment on my mental stability. Until then I will leave that up to the licensed professional who prescribe the plethora of pills I have to take because of parents who partook in real and actual mental and physical abuse.

Also when presenting a straw man argument one should not try to call into question the logic of another.

No strawman at all Patrick. You can rationalize hitting but I'm suggesting you need to learn how to creatively parent without hitting. You will rationalize as others have attempted but its pure crap. Get out of your fucking box and be an adult, not a big person who hits someone. You are the weakest type of man, one who will always find an excuse to raise a hand.

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Thank you for missing the point of that entirely. The point of it was I am not causing him pain but embarrassment and out of frustration he says things like you need a time out. I never said that I needed him to point it out to me and I would invite you to quote where I did. If you can then you can comment on my mental stability. Until then I will leave that up to the licensed professional who prescribe the plethora of pills I have to take because of parents who partook in real and actual mental and physical abuse.

Also when presenting a straw man argument one should not try to call into question the logic of another.

I appreciate your flagrant use of caps lock and bold but they really don't make you more correct just more obnoxious. It really does matter that most of the time he is taken to the car and put into a soothing environment. Repeating the same mantra over and over doesn't prove anything other than your argument had no real substance in the first place. I would think eventually you would realize that just because an opinion differed from yours that it was not wrong.

I am more than a little bit flabbergasted that you really think there is a comparison to a light swat on the thigh and the kind of abuse I was subjected to a child. So you can repeat yourself ad nauseum but that doesn't really, as I said, prove anything more than your argument has no real substance in the first place.

Thank you for enlightening me on the definition of the word. I really had no idea what it meant until just now. I have a definition for you as well.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adjective

: of, relating to, or functioning as an adjective

i.e.

That would be the adjective clause that the definition is referring too. The modifier light implies that the swat lacked significant force such as a light tap on the shoulder, a light hand on the pencil, a light tone to the conversation.

Please save your moral crusades. I grew up with them. I was a victim of them. I am immune to them.

Assumption is a funny thing. I'm not a fundie. I think Christianity is a crock. It is an amalgamation of many other religions and has always been used to enforce theocratic power upon society. If you really must know my religious beliefs I am a Pagan who worships science and nature. I do not now nor will I even believe in some man in the sky.

I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish here. You speak as though you have first hand experience of what I have done other than a few words on a forum. I don't expect you to like my opinion but honestly I grew up having the opinions of other people shoved down my throat. I promised myself I would never again let that happen so if you think comparing me to a fundie really got you anywhere with me; as Dr. House would say, "Just because you think I am wrong is no excuse for you to stop thinking."

If you think selling us on the idea that you are just hitting him to embarrass him is going to help, you are wrong.

If you'll kindly look at my quote you'll see I said "fundies and other nuts". You fall into the "other nuts" category.

Stop hitting your baby. It's sad enough that he's lost his dad. He doesn't need you hitting him, and then crying all over yourself telling him what he did to make you hit him.

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