Why are none of the Duggar daughters married?

[chiccy]

Michelle wasn't raised fundie, so she no doubt started her life with Jim Bob with certain, um, advantages, that her daugthers may be competely ignorant of.

They saved "themselves" for marriage, though not their first kiss. That's their story, anyway.

Michelle dated other people before Jim Bob, but it seems like it was pretty tame.

[JenniferJuniper]

They saved "themselves" for marriage, though not their first kiss. That's their story, anyway.

Michelle dated other people before Jim Bob, but it seems like it was pretty tame.

I'm not specifically referring to having sex before marriage. I'm talking about general awareness of one's own body and what sex is and how it works.

Going to public school and being allowed to hang around and gossip with her cheerleader friends, I'm sure by the time Michelle was married she knew a hell of a lot more than Josh was told during his prenuptial "Lego talk" with Boob.

[mrs]

Yeah, It beats the hell out of being a ignorant virgin on their wedding night & expecting it to be this huge romantic thing like something from a soap opera love scene.

Yea I worry about that too. I didn't wait for my wedding night. And I'm glad I didn't. It hurts. Its scary. And you have to be comfortable with yourself before you can enjoy it with some one else. I'm not speaking physically only, I'm referring to self esteem and body image, and love for ones self. It seems ATI really discourages that kind of thinking. Plus, how much energy do you have after the wedding. I had a tantrum after my 12 plus hour day, because I couldn't't find my special night gown. (it was right on top, but I was delirious). Also too, those first few sexual experiences can be traumatizing if one is not ready or felt pressured. I hope they go to consuling before to allow for reasonable expectations.

[chiccy]

Yea I worry about that too. I didn't wait for my wedding night. And I'm glad I didn't. It hurts. Its scary. And you have to be comfortable with yourself before you can enjoy it with some one else. I'm not speaking physically only, I'm referring to self esteem and body image, and love for ones self. It seems ATI really discourages that kind of thinking. Plus, how much energy do you have after the wedding. I had a tantrum after my 12 plus hour day, because I couldn't't find my special night gown. (it was right on top, but I was delirious). Also too, those first few sexual experiences can be traumatizing if one is not ready or felt pressured. I hope they go to consuling before to allow for reasonable expectations.

One thing I've never gotten about fundies... This marriage system makes it so that the kids go from 0 to fucking in one night, and often with people they barely know. (Screw the fact that Josh and Anna were saying "I love you" to each other throughout their courtship; I refuse to believe that they knew each other any better than a couple of new friends.) It's essentially not that different from an ebil one-night stand, in that you're taking your clothes off for someone you only recently met and have never kissed, touched, or even been alone with (except for that first kiss at the wedding, of course).

Sure, in their case you're supposed to stay with the person for life afterwards, but it still feels a little...I don't know...rushed? If I had been in the position of being touched by a man for the first time as a newlywed, I think I'd feel very vulnerable, and possibly scarred afterwards...same as with a one-night stand. I know everyone is different, but for me, emotional connection, really knowing the person, and a gradual stretching of the physical comfort zone are absolutely prerequisites for sex. I'd feel very uncomfortable having sex before all that had happened. And yet fundie girls have to.

[chiccy]

I hope they go to consuling before to allow for reasonable expectations.

I wonder if Christian fundies have anything resembling chosson and kallah classes in Judaism. In the Josh and Anna wedding episode, there was an (obviously staged) scene in which Jim Bob had "the talk" with Josh. Jim Bob was starting to explain the physical mechanism of sex, and Josh said something like, "I think I get it...it's like Legos." (Then Jim Bob gave him that nasty audiobook about the wedding night, which he listened to with Anna in the car on the way to the hotel.) This was on the day of his wedding, mind you.

Obviously, these two managed to figure it out...but I'm wondering if Gothardites/fundies generally get any sort of formal sex education prior to their weddings? If the extent of their sex education is the type of talk Jim Bob gave, then that's really frightening.

[pixydust]

I wonder if Christian fundies have anything resembling chosson and kallah classes in Judaism. In the Josh and Anna wedding episode, there was an (obviously staged) scene in which Jim Bob had "the talk" with Josh. Jim Bob was starting to explain the physical mechanism of sex, and Josh said something like, "I think I get it...it's like Legos." (Then Jim Bob gave him that nasty audiobook about the wedding night, which he listened to with Anna in the car on the way to the hotel.) This was on the day of his wedding, mind you.

Obviously, these two managed to figure it out...but I'm wondering if Gothardites/fundies generally get any sort of formal sex education prior to their weddings? If the extent of their sex education is the type of talk Jim Bob gave, then that's really frightening.

What bothers me about that kind of "sex education" (the lego talk) is that there is so much more than "insert tab A into slot B" to sex....do they hear about foreplay? Clitoris'? Me thinks that fundy girls are in for a world of hurt on their wedding nights!

[moreorlessnu]

Sure, in their case you're supposed to stay with the person for life afterwards, but it still feels a little...I don't know...rushed? If I had been in the position of being touched by a man for the first time as a newlywed, I think I'd feel very vulnerable, and possibly scarred afterwards...same as with a one-night stand. I know everyone is different, but for me, emotional connection, really knowing the person, and a gradual stretching of the physical comfort zone are absolutely prerequisites for sex. I'd feel very uncomfortable having sex before all that had happened. And yet fundie girls have to.

Imagine how much more awful it would be if you had been taught that you couldn't say no to your husband? At least in the dating world, each of you is able to set limits based on how comfortable you each are with the pace of that gradual stretching of the physical comfort zone.

[mrs]

What bothers me about that kind of "sex education" (the lego talk) is that there is so much more than "insert tab A into slot B" to sex....do they hear about foreplay? Clitoris'? Me thinks that fundy girls are in for a world of hurt on their wedding nights!

two letters - KY.

more seriously, I really feel sad and worried for those young ladies. If sexuality is incredible suppressed outside of married then the expectations of their spouse may be unrealistically high. Even their own expectations for fulfilling his needs maybe unrealistic to meet thus, the newly wed wife is failing from the start. Its messed up. I really hope those young couples are prepared physically and mentally to experience intercourse.

plus they are missing the beauty of learning and trusting each other physically and mentality . Imagine never being alone with someone and then being married and that night having to fulfill your duty as a wife. This is just so wrong.

Wow , I think I understand why the duggar girls may mot be married.

[chiccy]

plus they are missing the beauty of learning and trusting each other physically and mentality . Imagine never being alone with someone and then being married and that night having to fulfill your duty as a wife. This is just so wrong.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was trying to say. It's so gross, almost sleazy. And the girls have NO choice. Whether or not they feel ready or comfortable having sex on their wedding night, they've got to.

The fundies think this stuff is so "protective" of their young daughters, but it's exactly the opposite.

[SpeakNow]

One thing I've never gotten about fundies... This marriage system makes it so that the kids go from 0 to fucking in one night, and often with people they barely know. (Screw the fact that Josh and Anna were saying "I love you" to each other throughout their courtship; I refuse to believe that they knew each other any better than a couple of new friends.) It's essentially not that different from an ebil one-night stand, in that you're taking your clothes off for someone you only recently met and have never kissed, touched, or even been alone with (except for that first kiss at the wedding, of course).

Sure, in their case you're supposed to stay with the person for life afterwards, but it still feels a little...I don't know...rushed? If I had been in the position of being touched by a man for the first time as a newlywed, I think I'd feel very vulnerable, and possibly scarred afterwards...same as with a one-night stand. I know everyone is different, but for me, emotional connection, really knowing the person, and a gradual stretching of the physical comfort zone are absolutely prerequisites for sex. I'd feel very uncomfortable having sex before all that had happened. And yet fundie girls have to.

For my personally, it took over a month of dating for me to feel comfortable with my first boyfriend touching my breasts for the first time. I can't imagine being comfortable enough to just have sex right then and there.

[stacyf]

Interesting article on NLQ. Courting from a young man's point of view.

http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/03/13 ... rspective/

[LollerskateDJ]

Whenever Jessa gets married off which could be a long time, who would do all the packing?! Their trips would implode on itsself imo.

[Lana]

Very interesting blog post. The ultimate fundie husband is a paradox and near impossible to find.

[AnnieC 305]

http://www.stuffchristianculturelikes.c ... glide.html

Also

http://www.stuffchristianculturelikes.c ... -your.html

The bride often has little to no sex drive as she has been raised to think sex is irrelevant and sort of dirty, so they compromise by not kissing till the altar and ride the endorphins of glowing commendation on their purity from their family and friends. Then once they're married the husband is ready to go but the wife is terrified. He spends the honeymoon furiously bench pressing in the hotel gym while she cries in a corner of their honeymoon suite and calls her mom.

I read somewhere else, actually in a few other places, that the only advice most of these girls get is to go off to the bathroom and add some lube before hand, then lie back and think of a flower opening.

Errr, right.

I freely admit, I asked a friend who was also a trained sexual surrogate to, er, show me the ropes. Best thing I ever did, I enjoyed it, learned a lot, and when I finally got to my "wedding night" I was comfortable and ready to....yeah, let's not go there.

You know, I still think it has something to do with sex being degrading to women, and only redeemed with pregnancy. You can't tell me that attitude turns off at the altar, they can't turn those deeply ingrained feelings off like a switch. So from the time they marry until they get knocked up in many ways they become the lowest class of citizen, a sexually active woman, worthy of nothing but contempt. And who know exactly how long it takes to get pregnant? Why would "royalty" like the Duggars, Botkins or Phillips girls want to do that to themselves when they could live lives of honor, respect and renown as vestal virgins, complete with their fathers supporting them, attention from their brothers, their own babies to raise (provided by their mothers, but that will still calm the biological clock) and trips around the world? The only thing they don't have is romantic or sexual love, but they can fool themselves into believing that Christ loves them because they are everything He wants and, well, see the above quote about sex. Given all that, why would they marry?

[Anise]

You can't tell me that attitude turns off at the altar, they can't turn those deeply ingrained feelings off like a switch. So from the time they marry until they get knocked up in many ways they become the lowest class of citizen, a sexually active woman, worthy of nothing but contempt. And who know exactly how long it takes to get pregnant? Why would "royalty" like the Duggars, Botkins or Phillips girls want to do that to themselves when they could live lives of honor, respect and renown as vestal virgins, complete with their fathers supporting them, attention from their brothers, their own babies to raise (provided by their mothers, but that will still calm the biological clock) and trips around the world? The only thing they don't have is romantic or sexual love, but they can fool themselves into believing that Christ loves them because they are everything He wants and, well, see the above quote about sex. Given all that, why would they marry?

I think this is exactly right; I think it was in the documentary about purity balls, but at least one fundie girl admitted that she almost regretted getting married because she had lost her virginity.

For fundies, it's not just that sex is something dirty and evil, but that virginity has become so mysticized to represent the worth of the girl. It is often compared to a present or treasure to save and give to one's husband.

[Lady]

They saved "themselves" for marriage, though not their first kiss. That's their story, anyway.

Michelle dated other people before Jim Bob, but it seems like it was pretty tame.

And really, how would anyone know? There's no hymen in your mouth.

[AudreyE]

Interesting article on NLQ. Courting from a young man's point of view.

http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/03/13 ... rspective/

Excellent article. Thanks for sharing.

[mrs]

http://www.stuffchristianculturelikes.com/2008/08/30-astroglide.html

Also

http://www.stuffchristianculturelikes.c ... -your.html

I read somewhere else, actually in a few other places, that the only advice most of these girls get is to go off to the bathroom and add some lube before hand, then lie back and think of a flower opening.

Errr, right.

I freely admit, I asked a friend who was also a trained sexual surrogate to, er, show me the ropes. Best thing I ever did, I enjoyed it, learned a lot, and when I finally got to my "wedding night" I was comfortable and ready to....yeah, let's not go there.

You know, I still think it has something to do with sex being degrading to women, and only redeemed with pregnancy. You can't tell me that attitude turns off at the altar, they can't turn those deeply ingrained feelings off like a switch. So from the time they marry until they get knocked up in many ways they become the lowest class of citizen, a sexually active woman, worthy of nothing but contempt. And who know exactly how long it takes to get pregnant? Why would "royalty" like the Duggars, Botkins or Phillips girls want to do that to themselves when they could live lives of honor, respect and renown as vestal virgins, complete with their fathers supporting them, attention from their brothers, their own babies to raise (provided by their mothers, but that will still calm the biological clock) and trips around the world? The only thing they don't have is romantic or sexual love, but they can fool themselves into believing that Christ loves them because they are everything He wants and, well, see the above quote about sex. Given all that, why would they marry?

THIS is exactly what I am talking about. If they have schooled their daughter's to be good house wives , I think they deserve to enjoy and not be frighten by their married wife 'duty.' thank you for sharing!

[Anise]

In the Josh and Anna wedding episode, there was an (obviously staged) scene in which Jim Bob had "the talk" with Josh. Jim Bob was starting to explain the physical mechanism of sex, and Josh said something like, "I think I get it...it's like Legos."

Lol! I'm fairly sure Josh had already figured it out by then and stopped his father short with a fairly innocuous comparison. I grew up in a fundie-lite family, but I figured things out from careless comments and right-wing talk radio.

Right-wing talk radio host: You made your choice when you went into that hotel room and took off your clothes!

Impressionable little me: Oh, so people have to take off their clothes to have sex.