Another Wonderful Modesty Post

[jesssnerch]

I think my husband, and most guys I know, would be highly offended if I implied that they couldn't control themselves around an "immodestly" dressed woman. I mean men are supposed to be the leaders according to these people but they can't control their sexual urges? Not someone I want for my headship!

[Mountain Girl]

These people really are ridiculous. My husband notices beautiful women and boobs because, you know, he has eyes. Thing is, he's not a creeper. He can go, "oh look, boobs!" and still manage not to rape anyone or cheat on his wife. He can even control himself around naked babies :o Yeah, pretty sure he's the norm and this lady's husband has some serious issues.

Where do they get the idea that women are not visually stimulated? I spend most of the day defrauded. I demand that men cover their rippling muscles in loose, un-stylish clothing!

[smores]

That was the creepiest thing... and she has people egging her idiocy on.

[Mountain Girl]

I posted a comment pointing that out, but I'll be surprised if she posts it. But then I also posted it on my blog.

It made me think of this:

freethoughtblogs.com/lovejoyfeminism/2012/02/29/who-are-the-real-babies-house-proofing-and-modesty/

:clap:

They demean men as much as women, but men get the free pass afterwards. I used a similar argument in a public speaking class last year. My topic was women in combat, and I pointed out that barring women from combat in order to protect them from certain rape is as demeaning to men as "women are weak and timid" is to women. The point was well received by the men in the class.

[TXDuck]

It really ought to concern these types of women that, apparently, non-fundie men have vastly more self-control than fundie men. And better manners. And more maturity. Funny how none of that seems to cross the minds of these poor, brainwashed women. Life has to suck if you have to concern yourself with whether your bra is causing men to "stumble".

[Cordelia]

Reminds me a bit of this article -

http://isthismodest.com/2012/02/23/wome ... it-or-not/

We, as women, can easily overlook what our clothing is loudly advertising to the men around us. The more skin we reveal and the more form-fitting our clothing is, the more we are causing men to view us in a sexual way – whether they want to or not!

Conversely, the less skin we reveal and the less close-fitting our clothing is, the more we are enabling men to see our faces and think of us more as people in a non-sexual (or at least- much less sexual) way.

The eye-opening thing for us should be that a man will see what we “advertise†regardless of our intentions, and his perceptions of our sexual availability and spiritual condition will be set by OUR clothing regardless of his intentions.

The whole site is "interesting".

[2xx1xy1JD]

Sort of ironic that she starts off saying that there are no hard and fast Biblical rules and each woman should talk to her own husband....and then switches to saying that other women should dress the way that SHE would want them to dress around HER husband.

I reinforces me view that the whole culture of "submission" tends to turn some women into passive-aggressive control freaks. You see this in the comments too, like the one from the lady who complained that her husband allows their daughters to wear pants but she's "praying" about it.

[dairyfreelife]

While on a business trip down south during the summer, my husband entered the hotel and noticed a group of three men standing looking at the entrance. At first he didn’t know what their fascination was with the front door, but then he connected the dots.

A woman entered and the men stared, started smiling and chuckling among themselves. If you haven’t figured it out it, let me give you a clue. Think about what happens to a woman’s breast when she leaves a warm climate and enters a dramatically cooler setting.

Yes, these grown men were getting kicks and giggles watching women’s nipples stick out as they entered the air conditioned building. This is why I encourage women to wear padded bras and padded swim suits.

Seriously? Grown men are noticing and giggling at a woman's nipples? If that actually happened and it was not just her husband alone who noticed it (which is probably more likely as most grown men may notice breasts, but they are probably not giggling like 12yos over it), those men all need to get over themselves. It's just boobs. All women have them or have had them at some point. I think my 15yo brother is more mature about females than this woman's hubby. Noticing a woman not wearing a bra from across the parking lot?

I can understand slight paranoia at creeps looking at your kid. I have the same issue. My problem though isn't thinking a child will "defraud" men, but when I was a child, there was a serious issue with kidnapping in the neighbourhood I lived in. By that, I mean a couple children had been kidnapped by some man in the area at random. I don't know what or if anything happened to them, but I remember people not letting children be alone outside at all for awhile unless the man was caught. So, I have this slight fear about children, particularly female children when I see them alone, being taken by a creeper (the creep who did that in my neighbourhood took female children). It's the former teacher in me (was going to be a teacher before my health issues got so serious and I needed a different profession idea) that feels a desire to protect a child since they are too small to protect themselves along with the reality of what happened so close to home when I was child that puts me with that unease. Silly, I know. I do, however, assume most people are not creeps and not constantly thinking about sex, especially not to the point of hiding their daughters from their own sickness. I mean, a spaghetti-strap shirt on a little girl is not something to lust over for crying out loud. She's a child and it is disturbing to be that paranoid of other men when you think a thin strapped shirt or dress is going to make men think inappropriate things about your child. This man is sick and this woman is insane. This woman hears her husband being a lusty dickhead and blames other women because her husband can't control himself. She definitely embodies the phrase "ignoring the elephant in the room."

[Tempehst]

Girls aren’t as visually stimulated by boys, yet boys can be considerate of their “sisters†by not drawing attention to their bodies.

I beg to differ:

[ricky_ticky]

Fundie encounter yesterday involving question of modesty. At least the daughter was being allowed to pick out pants. Overheard in the dressing room of my local thrift store:

Mother Fundie to 15-year-old daughter: "You go into the dressing room and try things on then show me and I will judge."

Mother to 12-year-old son: "I am helping Heather pick out clothes for her mission trip to Spain. I can't get anything for you today, I'm sorry. Please watch your sister [later called Hopie] for me."

Daughter emerges wearing pants. "I like these!"

Mother: "Oh, yes, they are nice, but oh dear... I'm very sorry, Honey but they are too tight" [said a whisper]

Daughter: "But, Mom, I like them!"

Mother: "I know, sweetheart, but they do not fit, they are not right. I'm very sorry but they are just too tight. We can look around some more for gray pants in your size."

Daughter: "These are my size!"

Mother: "Yes, okay, but I cannot buy you those. I'm sorry, the style is too tight"

Daughter, dejected, tried on a few more items and did not argue again with the Mother's judging until she tried on a pair of cords.

Mother: "Now, those I like! Those are nice!"

Daughter: "They don't fit as well as the gray ones. I don't like them."

Mother: "Well, I like them! They are so cute. But if you don't like them, don't get them."

And, yes I was trying clothes on too, not just stalking the fundies.

BTW why a mission trip to Spain? Convert the Catholics?

[2xx1xy1JD]

I don't have any issue with a mother giving guidance on appropriate vs. inappropriate clothes or having rules about what she'll buy for kids. To some degree, that's just part of being a parent.

What's snark-worthy, to me at least, is the idea of a woman thinking that she can control what other adult women wear, to the point that she starts crying about it and accusing another women of being "cold" because she isn't sympathetic to the wife's distress over her husband noticing another women's boobs.

[MadameX]

Some sects of Christianity (not sure about fundies) barely consider Catholics Christians.

[Boltingmadonna]

How gross is it that this woman would go to another woman and inform her that her Pervship had been offended by the sight of her breasts? Now that poor woman is going to feel very uncomfortable every time the Pervship shows up at church, because she knows he'll be staring at her tits and evaluating her degree of covering. Eww. To me, this constitutes sexual harassment, but I guess there's no such thing if your brother in Christ is doing it to you in church.

Also, I call BS on the story about men at a resort tittering over tits at the doorway. I think that was his fantasy. Probably those guys were talking about something entirely unrelated, but he figured it had to be about boobies because that's the only thing he ever has on his mind. If such a scene really happened, it would have been appropriate for the female guests to request that security ask those men to move on.

I would feel very uncomfortable having a man like that around my children.

[Aurora]

Yeah, this man is seriously disturbed. I hate how she accompanies the post with a picture of a girl who looks about SEVEN all covered up in a long dress on the beach. A child that age is perfectly fine in a bathing suit and if a man thinks a girl that age is "defrauding" there is something very wrong with him. Not that adult women shouldn't be able to wear bathing suits as well, but the comments on modesty of children and how "little cheeks tend to expose themselves" and things like that are really weird and disturbing.

[27randomscribbles]

I posted a reply (probably won't be posted either) too because this is one thing about my "evangelical" upbringing that pisses me off quite a bit. I am very uncomfortable in my own skin and am very self-conscious because I was raised to believe all men were oogling me and if I didn't dress modestly I would be causing them to sin. I'm only now able to dress sexier and enjoy it for myself and not worry as much about what others think...but it's still in the back of my head. My husband is sad I had to grow up thinking so badly about my body, but thankfully he's quite understanding about many of my issues leftover from being taught all that purity crap and sinner stuff. It's really too bad I can't bill the church for my counseling sessions and meds.

If my husband noticed a woman across a parking lot without a bra I'd be seriously worried that he was secretly a sexual pervert. Thankfully he wouldn't, although we are both very open about when we find others attractive--I'd much rather share than keep secrets as if finding someone attractive was a sin or something. If it really is a sin I really am in trouble because Pirates of the Caribbean was on TV the other day and Johnny Depp in pirate garb causes me to commit lots of lust sins in my mind. :)

For the record I'm in my mid-twenties, been married over five years, and my mother still tells me to cover up when I show off my tatas in a low-cut dress. Not that I listen anymore. Anyways, if there is a god he/she obviously gave me extra bountiful "assets" in order to show them off. Of course. "Let your light shine" or something like that.

Last thing: WTF is up with the whole issue with children and men finding them immodest? That is just sick if a man notices those things. Her husband needs help.

[Ruby]

6) “Cross your legs or ankles.†This one was a surprise to me. One evening we were visiting some friends and hanging out, chatting. I had been sitting on the floor and changed my position to where I was leaning onto a pillow, my one knee popped up into the air while my other leg was extended on the floor. It was a wonderful evening of connecting. Perhaps I had noticed my husband was acting a little strange, but it wasn’t until the car ride home that I found out how uncomfortable I had made him. He informed me that the way I was sitting appeared very “invitingâ€. Who knew? Not me; but now you don’t need to make that mistake yourself.

How dare she spend a casual evening in a comfortable posture!!! Brazen, just brazen.

Seriously though, this headship is such a controlling ass, that he concerns himself with how his wife lounges on the floor in the company of friends. Sounds like this couple has lots of unpleasant car rides home. Something I don't miss even a wee little bit from my former life.

[Sparkle]

Last thing: WTF is up with the whole issue with children and men finding them immodest? That is just sick if a man notices those things. Her husband needs help.

THIS. so much this. Can you imagine how the boys raised with that thought process are going to be like as teenagers and adults?!? They hear their mothers tell their sisters why they can't wear certain outfits, to keep certain things covered...

I guess it's easier to take blame and blame everyone BUT the pervy husband who obviously needs help.

(then again, we see what kind of "help" the fundies will accept...)

[ADoyle90815]

Yeah, this man is seriously disturbed. I hate how she accompanies the post with a picture of a girl who looks about SEVEN all covered up in a long dress on the beach. A child that age is perfectly fine in a bathing suit and if a man thinks a girl that age is "defrauding" there is something very wrong with him. Not that adult women shouldn't be able to wear bathing suits as well, but the comments on modesty of children and how "little cheeks tend to expose themselves" and things like that are really weird and disturbing.

I agree, if a man thinks that a child is "defrauding" for wearing a bathing suit or anything sleeveless, they're the perverts who should never be left unsupervised around children, even his own for a second. It's just sick, and it would lay the blame on the child if anything did happen to them, when the fault is all on the sick asshole. :violence-rocket:

[ladypuglover]

Look, I've breastfed 5 sons and I have permanent high beams because of the years of nursing. What does this pervship want me to do? Buy a padded bra? Nope happening when you are plus sized and have big knockers, because they don't sell padded bras for those of us that have extra large size boobies. Wear band-aids over my nipples? Nope, I'm allergic to the sticky and that would be very costly. Bind my boobs? Yeah, right. Anyway, what gives his pervy pervship right over my husband who happens to like the high beams? This man needs to get his head back in his own marriage and not worry about others. Maybe if his wife did dress a little more sexy, he would be to busy admiring her to notice anyone else.

[27randomscribbles]

Maybe if his wife did dress a little more sexy, he would be to busy admiring her to notice anyone else.

Nope. Other men might also see her dressed sexy and that's a no-no. Because of course she and her body "belong" to him and he wouldn't dare "share" any glimpses with any other men.

[Aurora]

I hate padded bras anyway, they make me too hot. That is a lot of insulation to wear in a concentrated little band next to your skin all day. But it's getting harder to find non-padded ones.

[failsafe]

I don't get the instruction that underwear should not be seen (okay...) but that if you are wearing a bra, make it o-b-v-i-o-u-s because men don't know about "the different options for women" (like strapless bras or seamless bras?), so they'll just assume you aren't wearing one. So you need to make it clear that your undergarments should never be shown.... except it needs to be obvious you are wearing a bra. Huh?

[Terrie]

Ugh, it sounds like her hubby gets off on telling her about other women's boobs. And the sitting thing? This guy is obsessed! Here's a thought. Teach boys to look away. They're not paralyzed by exposure to boobs, so they should be able to learn to not look.

[Kitty]

I don't get the instruction that underwear should not be seen (okay...) but that if you are wearing a bra, make it o-b-v-i-o-u-s because men don't know about "the different options for women" (like strapless bras or seamless bras?), so they'll just assume you aren't wearing one. So you need to make it clear that your undergarments should never be shown.... except it needs to be obvious you are wearing a bra. Huh?

That sounds like a rule in my school's dress code: "Underwear must be worn and covered at all times." Well if you can't see it, how do you know it's there? Always confused the hell out of me.

I think what she was going for was, wearing a bra means your breasts appear to have a different shape (higher and rounder) than when you're not wearing one. I don't know that she was saying "make it obvious you're wearing a bra," but wear one so men who look at your boobs know you're wearing one from the lack of sagging and nippleage. Unless she means padded sports bras, which tend to flatten the breasts AND hide nipples.

I'm just amazed that it never once occurs to her to tell her husband to stop staring at other women's breasts, and stopping being a sick fuck. Because that's what the dickheadship is, a sick fuck, who can't control his urges even around his own seven-year-old daughter.

[galaxygirl]

Girls aren’t as visually stimulated by boys,

So true, I totes watch White Collar for the plot.

I'm so tired of being told by these fundies what I can and can't wear because the male fundies apparently can't control themselves when they see female skin.