razing ruth/rachel and FAFSA

[spragger]

It had nothing to do with my parents. I still had to report my ex's income, of which I did not receive any part and we had been separated long enough that I had no idea what his tax info was for that year.

I'm saying that, in this case, like in mine, there are ways around being held accountable for income that isn't yours and from which you don't benefit.

That's interesting. I was only legally separated and all I had to do was send in a signed statement (from both me and my then husband) that we were legally separated and I wasn't getting any of his income. They didn't ask for any of his tax information.

[stacyf]

That wouldn't work here, because Ruth and Rachel are living together. Ruth is obviously not abusing Rachel.

Rachel and Ruth have decided not to live together according to Ruth's blog. This has to do with it affecting Ruth's college and financial situation.

[Alecto]

If Rachel is still in Arkansas, she MIGHT qualify for the Academic Challenge.

[Austin]

I just got done reading Ruth's latest post, and I'm sure there will be those who disagree, but I hope that Rachel chooses a nice, liberal couple who will have a child-centered approach to parenting with no strong religious ties.

[MadameX]

That's interesting. I was only legally separated and all I had to do was send in a signed statement (from both me and my then husband) that we were legally separated and I wasn't getting any of his income. They didn't ask for any of his tax information.

That's essentially what ended up happening once I finally went to the financial aid office and asked for help. Only I wasn't in contact with him so there was only a statement from me. I didn't realize there was any way around reporting his income since the divorce was far from final at that point, so I basically estimated it on the FAFSA and then went to the financial aid office once school started and they fixed it.

[Kelya]

I just got done reading Ruth's latest post, and I'm sure there will be those who disagree, but I hope that Rachel chooses a nice, liberal couple who will have a child-centered approach to parenting with no strong religious ties.

I'm hoping for a nice lesbian couple, but that might be a bit much for her straight out of fundie-ism.

[sugaree]

That's essentially what ended up happening once I finally went to the financial aid office and asked for help. Only I wasn't in contact with him so there was only a statement from me. I didn't realize there was any way around reporting his income since the divorce was far from final at that point, so I basically estimated it on the FAFSA and then went to the financial aid office once school started and they fixed it.

Ah, I misunderstood. Different kind of family income.

But that's a different story, because legally separated in a legally-recognized state of being and parents-are-controlling-jerks is not.

[Kitchen Princess]

IIRC, you don't have to submit your parent's info if you are orphaned, coming from the foster care system, a parent, married, or were an emancipated minor. MadameX, I am thinking that you were able to get aid because you were divorced; thus, you had been married and were therefore considered to be independent from their parents.

Young adults who are just plain on the outs with their parents, for whatever reason, are screwed.

My son missed a whole year of aid because they didn't recognize his marriage. He was married when he was 20 and had not been living with us for about 2 years. He was screwed, too.

[Kitchen Princess]

That wouldn't work here, because Ruth and Rachel are living together. Ruth is obviously not abusing Rachel.

Man, the things I take for granted (like filling out that FAFSA every year as a non-dependent adult). As a professional student, I have some experience with THAT. Heck, all I have to amend is income; they already have the rest of my life stored in their hard drives.

But but but it's not her SISTER'S responsibility to support her! She's not abusing her, but she's also not supporting her. Ruth can barely support herself. Why does it matter who she lives with if it's not her parents?

[polabear]

The horribly draconian rules were caused by a lot of parents gaming the system. When I went to college in 1993, I only had to report my mom's income. I just said I didn't have any contact with my father. (Which was a slight overstatement, but not by much.) That would probably not fly today. But, even a few years before I went to school, we'd hear about parents who would set up their kids in apartments, and the kids would file as independents. Of course, they'd be entitled to much more aid.

[DarkAnts]

Ruth, you should get your sister signed up at the local vocational rehabilitation center. They can help her get her GED, help her create carer goals and help her get the education she needs for her future carer. They will also help with consoling, job placement and planning for a financially stable future.

My brother in law has severe dyslexia and social, paranoia anxiety disorder. They are helping him get his GED, get a welding certificate, and consoling.

I also have dyslexia, PTSD, and a masters of science in chemistry. They are helping me develop cooping skills for the word force for both the dyslexia and PTSD.

The services are free. It can take a while to work through the system because so many people need their help.

[Elle]

...an easy procedure to sue the parents and get the information and/or the money...

Unless there was a court order as part of a child custody proceeding requiring it, an adult child has no legal grounds to sue for college money.

If someone has to sue for just information, there's no way that parent would even help.

[Elle]

...an easy procedure to sue the parents and get the information and/or the money...

Unless there was a court order as part of a child custody proceeding requiring it, an adult child has no legal grounds to sue for college money.

If someone has to sue for just information, there's no way that parent would even help.

[Elle]

The horribly draconian rules were caused by a lot of parents gaming the system. When I went to college in 1993, I only had to report my mom's income. I just said I didn't have any contact with my father. (Which was a slight overstatement, but not by much.) That would probably not fly today. But, even a few years before I went to school, we'd hear about parents who would set up their kids in apartments, and the kids would file as independents. Of course, they'd be entitled to much more aid.

I was in high school in the mid to late 90's, and I clearly remember a Newsweek article about the extremes wealthy parents were going to due to the new FAFSA rules to get their kids' college educations entirely funded through grants. One dean recalled a wealthy father demanding to know the nearest runway so he could jet in and meet the dean personally to tell him exactly why the school should ignore the FAFSA and give his kid a full ride on grants (not scholarships), and another kid whose parents hired lawyers. The dean was saying that kids with parents with that kind of wealth and whose parents are obviously caring about their college educations are the sort of people the new FAFSA rules were meant to weed out, but he also acknowledged that the rules meant some kids weren't getting the help they needed because their parents wouldn't cooperate or because the EFC was higher than the families could actually afford.

I had several friends whose parents wouldn't help with the forms, and so claimed their parents were dead or to have had kids. I don't know about now, but at least i 1999, 2000, 2001, there was no evidence needed to prove parents were dead or that you had custody of a child. Adding kids is a favorite way to get additional aid by some child free people I know today who say it's not fair you get more aid for having kids (and so feel they're just getting fair shake by claiming to have 3 or 4 kids).

I know it's not "right" so to speak, but what evidence is required for parental death? Since Rachel's parents may as well be dead at this point, for all the help they're willing to give. And what evidence would she had to give for having custody of the baby?

[turquoise]

I had several friends whose parents wouldn't help with the forms, and so claimed their parents were dead or to have had kids. I don't know about now, but at least i 1999, 2000, 2001, there was no evidence needed to prove parents were dead or that you had custody of a child. Adding kids is a favorite way to get additional aid by some child free people I know today who say it's not fair you get more aid for having kids (and so feel they're just getting fair shake by claiming to have 3 or 4 kids).

I know it's not "right" so to speak, but what evidence is required for parental death? Since Rachel's parents may as well be dead at this point, for all the help they're willing to give. And what evidence would she had to give for having custody of the baby?

You have to report information as it appears on your tax forms, and they will verify your information with the IRS. You can be fined or sent to prison for lying.

Also, I found this on the FAFSA website at http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/fotw1112/pdf/PdfFafsa11-12.pdf (bolding mine.)

Under very limited circumstances (for example, your parents are

incarcerated; you have left home due to an abusive family environment;

or you do not know where your parents are and are unable to contact

them), you may be able to submit your FAFSA without parental

information. If you are unable to provide parental information, skip

Steps Four and Five, and go to Step Six. Once you submit your FAFSA

without parental data, you must follow up with the financial aid office

at the college you plan to attend, in order to complete your FAFSA.

[Deleted03]

You have to report information as it appears on your tax forms, and they will verify your information with the IRS. You can be fined or sent to prison for lying.

Also, I found this on the FAFSA website at http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/fotw1112/pdf/PdfFafsa11-12.pdf (bolding mine.)

Under very limited circumstances (for example, your parents are

incarcerated; you have left home due to an abusive family environment;

or you do not know where your parents are and are unable to contact

them), you may be able to submit your FAFSA without parental

information. If you are unable to provide parental information, skip

Steps Four and Five, and go to Step Six. Once you submit your FAFSA

without parental data, you must follow up with the financial aid office

at the college you plan to attend, in order to complete your FAFSA.

isn't it enough proof that she had to take refuge in a women's shelter? Isn't there grounds to file a restraining order or something similar?

[Austin]

You have to report information as it appears on your tax forms, and they will verify your information with the IRS. You can be fined or sent to prison for lying.

Also, I found this on the FAFSA website at http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/fotw1112/pdf/PdfFafsa11-12.pdf (bolding mine.)

Under very limited circumstances (for example, your parents are

incarcerated; you have left home due to an abusive family environment;

or you do not know where your parents are and are unable to contact

them), you may be able to submit your FAFSA without parental

information. If you are unable to provide parental information, skip

Steps Four and Five, and go to Step Six. Once you submit your FAFSA

without parental data, you must follow up with the financial aid office

at the college you plan to attend, in order to complete your FAFSA.

My niece originally tried to mark that she didn't know where her parents were. It was true of her mother, as she had moved with no forwarding address or phone number, but not technically true of her father. Since FAFSA crosschecks FAFSA applications against IRS records, and since she had appeared as a dependent on her father's federal income tax return in recent years, that didn't fly. She was actually, very briefly, a ward of the court when she was removed from her mother's home because of abuse and custody was transferred to her father, but even this did not meet that requirement.

You can't just claim your parents are dead because if your parents file an income tax return, you're screwed. Plus it is a crime to falsify a federal form. My niece claimed ignorance over her father's location, and they didn't press it for her "discrepency".

Next, she tried to go through the college financial aid office. I went with her. The aid officer was very sympathetic, and colleges do have some discretion, but it's such a common situation that it makes it very hard for them to employ that discretion for every student with a legitimate claim for extenuating circumstances, as not more than a certain percentage of students can qualify for this sort of discretion. The aid officer did her best, even phoning my niece's father in a different state, and taking his abuse, but she was not able to induce him to give up the needed info.

If someone else knows of a legal way around this, I would love to know. My niece is only just about to turn 20, cannot afford college without financial aid, and has four long years before she can file as an independent student.

[Kelya]

If she's on TANF, they sometimes have work training programs. I'm in one now. Its an 8 week, sort of boring class that will certify me as a nursing assistant, which is a good job around here, like 14 dollars an hour. The class would give her a chance to see how non homeschooling is in a not very vigorous environment, and get her certified to do a skilled job while she figures out how to get into college or waits out the FAFSA. I'm not on TANF so I paid full price which was 600 dollars, but some TANF recipients in my class are paying as little as zero.

[camdendayton]

Ruth lives in CA no? 6 years ago, when I was still taking community college classes there was a form for a fee waiver. It required no supporting documentation and was only about a page. I wasn't making any money so I reported correctly and never ad to pay anything for community college. That won't help with living expenses, but at least she won'y have to worry about college fees...

[QAF_Rocks]

The FAFSA can be complicated for people who don't come from traditional family situations. The New York Times had an article on how to apply for financial aid if you have same-sex parents. Currently, it's quite difficult and confusing.

http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/14/how-to-file-for-financial-aid-if-your-parents-are-gay

I was in college in the late 90s, but I can't remember what happened with my financial aid. It sounds like only one of my parents could have been on the form, even though they are both my legal parents. Which, ironically, probably helped me more than it should have.

BTW, some "charming" comments on the article:

I continue to oppose same-sex marriage on moral grounds so have no objection to the current FAFSA form in the marriage area.

It all also argues that in the end, children are better off with their own REAL biological parents -- married to one another! -- and not as the pawns of yuppies wishing to play house. The ultimate question has to be "what is best for children" and the best thing for children is to be raised by their REAL mother and father -- everything else (gay, straight, single, polyamorous, swinging, etc.) is second rate status, no matter how well-intentioned the parties are.

I love the people who think that, because they disagree with same-sex families, they should get to make their lives as hard as possible. We obviously need to be punished! :roll: