The Term 'Not Treating Someone Like A Lady"

[debrand]

Many people use the terms, ladies or gentlemen to simply mean that someone is polite and repsectful of others. I've also heard the term, lady to refer to a woman who is unusually poised and gracious.

Yet, I've also heard men say that they won't treat certain women like ladies. In this instance, they are using the word, lady to mean a woman who remains in a certain sphere. A woman can loose the title lady in any number of tiny ways. If she curses-even once-or wears a skirt that is too short or argues with a man, she is no longer entitled to being called a lady. To hell with her, if she dares carry her own packages or ask to open her own door.

There is something threatening about the phrase, "Not treating someone like a lady". I imagine that the speaker means that he doesn't have to show the woman respect and consideration at all. She has now entered the subhuman category and can be treated with rudeness or even threatened. At least, that has always been how I hear the phrase, "She doesn't deserve to be treated like a lady."

However, I really don't know what the phrase means. I've never asked asked men who claim that certain women need less regard than others what they mean by the phrase. To be honest, I've always avoided such men.

I was curious if any of you had any explanation for the term. Do you have any real life examples?

[AudreyE]

I'm 35, and that's not a phrase I hear my peers use. It *is* something I heard my parents say, but they would be almost 80, if they were living. Now that you mention it, I don't have a really good idea what it means, and I would love to ask someone who uses the phrase.

There is the male counterpart of being a "gentleman," and, of course, both descend from the concept of gentry, so it's a class issue as much as a gender issue - BUT - I don't think I've heard anyone say, "He doesn't deserve to be treated like a gentleman."

[CynicMom]

Actually I've heard the phrase "he's no gentleman" probably more often then "she's no lady". Usually referring to a man who has an affair or is otherwise stepping outside the bounds of polite society. Remember the dialog in Gone with the Wind?

Scarlett: Sir, you are no gentleman.

Rhett: And you, miss, are no lady.

A quick googling found the term applied to athletes, politicians, and in movie lyrics. The phrase "she's no lady" returned mainly song lyrics. Other than our patriarchal fundies I don't actually think the term is used that differently by society.

[debrand]

Apparently some politicians still use the phrase.

I am not a fan of Michelle Bachmann but I thought that Specter was out of line in this story.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthru ... _lady.html

When Specter tried to counter, Bachmann, darling of the Tea Party movement, kept on talking, which didn't sit well with the one-time Philadelphia DA, who is a stickler for politeness and protocol.

"I'm going to treat you like a lady," Mr. Specter shot back. "Now act like one."

Ms. Bachmann replied, "I am a lady."

Things went on along this line for a while -- with Specter later asking Bachmann to "act like a lady," according to the PPG's Daniel Malloy.

Bachmann is hardly a beloved figure in Democratic circles. But how many liberal women, whom Specter badly needs to defeat front-running Pat Toomey, would appreciate being told to "act like a lady" by a male debate partner?

http://jillianbarclay.hubpages.com/hub/ ... ssman-West

I was offended by GOP Congressman Allen West's email to Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman-Schultz (D). As a woman, I was mortified that a fellow elected representative would act in such a disrespectful manner to his fellow colleague. Part of the email is reprinted here:

" Look, Debbie, I understand that I after I departed the House floor you directed your floor speech comments directly towards me. Let me make myself perfectly clear, you want a personal fight, I am happy to oblige. You are the most vile, unprofessional and despicable member of the US House of Representatives. If you have something to say to me, stop being a coward and say it to my face, otherwise, shut the heck up."

Additionally West said that Ms. Wasserman-Schultz has proven that "you are not a lady" and "shall not be afforded due respect from me!!" He also sent copies of the email to several members of the House and Senate "alerting them to her heinous characterless behavior!"[/

[valsa]

From my experience "lady" means "woman who acts like I think a woman should act". Step one foot outside that and you pretty much default to "bitch" (if you dare stand up for yourself or get angry about anything, etc) or "slut" (if you have sex with someone the speaker doesn't approve of you having sex with, if you don't have sex with the speaker, if you dare to enjoy sex or your sexuality, if you don't wear the "right" things, etc)

[snarkbillie]

From my experience "lady" means "woman who acts like I think a woman should act". Step one foot outside that and you pretty much default to "bitch" (if you dare stand up for yourself or get angry about anything, etc) or "slut" (if you have sex with someone the speaker doesn't approve of you having sex with, if you don't have sex with the speaker, if you dare to enjoy sex or your sexuality, if you don't wear the "right" things, etc)

Slut is a code word for "woman who won't fuck me". I've had 2 sexual partners and yet I've been called a slut relentlessly by a bunch of so called "nice guys".

[valsa]

Slut is a code word for "woman who won't fuck me". I've had 2 sexual partners and yet I've been called a slut relentlessly by a bunch of so called "nice guys".

Yeah, I've never been able to follow that logic. "Slut"* typically denotes a woman who both has many, many sexual partners and has no quality standards with regard to the men she sleeps with. If a woman refuses to sleep with a certain man, she obviously has quality standards he doesn't meet and her quality standards probably stop her from sleeping with an insane number of men.

* I'd like to point out that I hate the word "slut" and do not approve of the definition I've used here. I'm only going by what I've seen as mainstream culture's definition of "slut".

[debrand]

http://townhall.com/columnists/evalorra ... page/full/

Here is an article about treating women like ladies.

Our society holds conservatives to a higher moral standard. When a woman acts like a lady she gains the respect both of men and other women. Besides, why would a conservative woman ever want to be mistaken for a liberal woman?

I have heard many of my male peers place women into three categories: “the ones to mess around with, the ones to date, and the ones to marry.†Though this is a rather crude way of categorizing women, it shows that men do recognize and value the qualities that make a woman a lady. Ladies are the kind of women that men can take home to Mom and Dad and that most men want to marry. Being considered “marriage material†is an indicator that a woman is to be respected; most men who deem a woman as such treat her with the utmost respect. For men, ladies are at the top of the female totem pole, and conservative women need to take pride in the fact that they are worthy of time, love, and commitment.

Granted, she does not say that use the phrase, "not treating a woman like a lady'.

[debrand]

Yeah, I've never been able to follow that logic. "Slut"* typically denotes a woman who both has many, many sexual partners and has no quality standards with regard to the men she sleeps with. If a woman refuses to sleep with a certain man, she obviously has quality standards he doesn't meet and her quality standards probably stop her from sleeping with an insane number of men.

* I'd like to point out that I hate the word "slut" and do not approve of the definition I've used here. I'm only going by what I've seen as mainstream culture's definition of "slut".

I detest the word, slut because it doesn't always mean simply a woman who has a lot of sexual partners. Some people view any woman who is sexually active as being defective somehow. So, a woman who has premarital sex must be stupid, not like herself, hurting in some way, etc.

[valsa]

Some people view any woman who is sexually active as being defective somehow. So, a woman who has premarital sex must be stupid, not like herself, hurting in some way, etc.

True, though I don't think that's mainstream culture's view (of course the definition of "many partners" does vary)

[debrand]

True, though I don't think that's mainstream culture's view (of course the definition of "many partners" does vary)

That definition probably comes from when I was younger. Luckily, I think that the views on women's sexuality are changing.

[Conuly]

To be honest, I've always avoided such men.

That's probably wise.

[O Latin]

I've actually more often heard that phrase directed at men, when I've heard it at all, i.e. "Shame on you! That's not how you treat a lady." In elementary school and junior high, teachers always seemed big on "ladies first" and they would call us "ladies" or "gentlemen" if they were trying to get us to shut up and stop screwing around, sort of the group equivalent of being called by your full name when you're in trouble, I guess. Like they would say to a bunch of guys who were screwing around, "Gentlemen, have you finished your assignment yet?" I think my choir director would do that, too. That's about the only time I've ever heard people referred to as "ladies" or "gentlemen" though (other than, "Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, please turn of your cell phones before the performance begins.")

[ladypuglover]

Some of the reasons I have heard/seen why a man won't treat a woman like a lady;

She is too old for their taste.

She is fat.

She is ugly in their eyes.

She has red hair.

She is divorced.

She has kids.

She is crazy.

She drinks alcohol sometimes.

She smokes.

She lives alone.

She makes more money than I do.

She looks poor.

She is serving me such as in a waitress.

So it seems like the only reason some men act like a gentleman is to get women into bed and to hell with the ones he doesn't think are good enough for his bed. :evil:

[PBrooke]

I'm not sure, in person, I've ever heard someone use "lady" or "gentleman" in a negative sense "You're no lady." Like O Latin, it's usually coming from teachers, and usually in the sense of, "I'm going to speak to you all like ladies and gentlemen."

[desertvixen]

From my experience "lady" means "woman who acts like I think a woman should act". Step one foot outside that and you pretty much default to "bitch" (if you dare stand up for yourself or get angry about anything, etc) or "slut" (if you have sex with someone the speaker doesn't approve of you having sex with, if you don't have sex with the speaker, if you dare to enjoy sex or your sexuality, if you don't wear the "right" things, etc)

I'd agree with this one. I'd also agree that the definition here for "slut" is the most accurate one.

[Alana Rickman]

I thought of this thread when I read this article:

msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/san-diego-anchor-suspended-for-danica-patrick-comment-022912

A sports anchor in California got suspended for saying that Danica Patrick "is such a pretty girl...but what's not attractive is that she's sexy and she knows it" and for saying that he would describe her with a word that "starts with a B and it's not beautiful."

[meda]

Makes me think of all the times I worked on campaigns with old men who weren't used to working with women. They didn't want to be blatant misogynist tools, because we were supposedly such progressive lefty organizers, so they would refer to me as "young lady" rather than by my name, and then attempt to send me for coffee. Good times.

[mockingbird]

I was on a quasi-date once (guy I was interested in and his friends) and the other boys started making crude jokes. This was freshman year of college... I knew all of them pretty well and this was pretty typical for any time we hung out. The boy I liked said something like "Stop, there's a lady here!"

At the time I took it as a compliment but now I want to slap myself for even thinking he was dating material because that incident pretty much sums up his personality... he and his (girl) friend now have an ongoing joke about how he needs a trophy wife but um, there's a lot of truth to that. Definitely, if not totally misogynistic, arrogant and pretentious. He's a poli sci major and Republican. He called me "dear" and it sounded like Rhett Butler so that's why I was so head over heels for him. *headdesk* I can handle the crude jokes thank you very much and I am not going to be your accessory for your Santorum campaign.

Anyway, that's really the only time I've heard it from my peers beyond sororities/fraternities (often they will call the whole group "ladies" or "gentlemen" respectively).

[ladyamylynn]

You all better treat me like the lady that I am!!! Seriously, though, the whole "I'll treat you like a lady, now act like one" exchange just sounds like a thinly-veiled threat to me. As in, "get yourself in line before I hit you." In a patriarchy, any word specifically used to address women can have a negative connotation. Plus, it's just an iteration on the "No true Scotsman" fallacy that fundie men just loooooooooove for some reason. All true ladies are submissive, love makin' babies, pink crafts, etc. In other words, a load of total horse shit.

[Dinaberries]

You all better treat me like the lady that I am!!! Seriously, though, the whole "I'll treat you like a lady, now act like one" exchange just sounds like a thinly-veiled threat to me. As in, "get yourself in line before I hit you." In a patriarchy, any word specifically used to address women can have a negative connotation. Plus, it's just an iteration on the "No true Scotsman" fallacy that fundie men just loooooooooove for some reason. All true ladies are submissive, love makin' babies, pink crafts, etc. In other words, a load of total horse shit.

This.

My step-father, who I remember kicking my mom's Bible across the room; and another time, ripping it up, and screaming "FUCK YOU AND YOUR GOD", eventually came to accept Jesus into his heart once he realized that he could better control my mother that way. He used to beat the shit out of her (big surprise), and he would actually say that if she would act like a lady (meaning, obey him and his every command unquestioningly), he would treat her like one, but since she acted like "a fucking butch" (by occasionally questioning him), he was most definitely not going to treat her like a lady. He would say, "You fucking butch. You want to act like a man, I will treat you like one". So yes, I do read it, when coming from a man, as a "now get in line before I hit you" type of comment.

[Defrauding Errday]

I agree with Ladyamylynn and Dinaberries. It always gives the impression that if you don't perform in the way they think a lady should, they will disrespect you

[ADoyle90815]

I agree with Ladyamylynn and Dinaberries. It always gives the impression that if you don't perform in the way they think a lady should, they will disrespect you

That's the impression I get, that if you don't act like a "lady" or more accurately, submissive to them, they'll disrespect you. In a way the B-word really means Being In Total Control of Herself. In that case, I'm glad I'm a bitch.

[Guest Anonymous]

The only way I can explain it is that conservative society believes that women who don't "keep sweet" or are on the lower end of the economic/social ladder aren't worthy of being treated with respect, and deserve to be called names, harassed, etc. It makes me furious! All women and men deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.

EDITED: for clarification