Leandro and Jocelyn UPDATE

[Deleted03]

Nobody likes a hand slapper.

A lot of the people on this thread have expressed that they feel bad for Jocelyn and honestly I do too. Two broken courtships really sucks. But, we are here to snark and call out lifestyles that we disagree with, and the FACT that she's hurting right now is proof that this whole courtship model doesn't do what it's intended to do. So yeah, we're gonna talk about it.

ugh, no one has said anything bad yet and here are the hand slappers. Crazy lurkers!

[fundiefan]

I have to wonder if she would extend the courtesy of laying off? Somehow, I doubt it. If normal people were dating and broke it off and there was hurt involved, I don't doubt that she'd use those people and that hurt as an example of why the world and dating are bad and evil.

It has to suck when you make a plan for your life and it doesn't work out. Hell, I know it sucks because I've been there and not just romantically. That doesn't mean everyone has to be nice to you. And it definitely doesn't mean that a random person no one knows, who has never participated on a snark board before, has any hand slapping clout.

[Deleted03]

I have to wonder if she would extend the courtesy of laying off? Somehow, I doubt it. If normal people were dating and broke it off and there was hurt involved, I don't doubt that she'd use those people and that hurt as an example of why the world and dating are bad and evil.

It has to suck when you make a plan for your life and it doesn't work out. Hell, I know it sucks because I've been there and not just romantically. That doesn't mean everyone has to be nice to you. And it definitely doesn't mean that a random person no one knows, who has never participated on a snark board before, has any hand slapping clout.

reminds me of the time where a "friend" catholic, no sex before marriage type, told me that he did not understand why I was sad that my bf just broke up with me, because I knew it was not for life (because no wedding involved). Jackass. /end of derail

[pomology]

Nobody likes a hand slapper.

A lot of the people on this thread have expressed that they feel bad for Jocelyn and honestly I do too. Two broken courtships really sucks. But, we are here to snark and call out lifestyles that we disagree with, and the FACT that she's hurting right now is proof that this whole courtship model doesn't do what it's intended to do. So yeah, we're gonna talk about it.

Exactly. I am sorry for Jocelyn, because I know that getting your heart broken really sucks. Even more if you're guarding your heart from falling in love in the first place (not that I have experience with courtship, I just had issues,) But, honestly, if courtship doesn't really leave you any better than dating, then why on earth would you do it? Jocelyn has "given away pieces of her heart." Nothing wrong with that, but stop trying to claim that our way of doing things is superior.

And yes, it's Jocelyn's own fault for reading here.

Also, it's not like we talk about her THAT much.

In short, we're gonna talk about what we're going to talk about and you have no effect on it.

[Snickerdoodle]

As far as I can tell, the Dixons are following the Hebrew Roots movement (with their own interpretations, of course), not orthodox Judaism.

In any case, both orthodox Jews and Hebrew Roots believers view betrothal as marriage, not just engagement. http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/artic ... -betrothal

So Jocelyn has apparently had two failed marriages.

[Alecto]

For the record, once again-

far_go is not Lina unless Lina frequently jet sets between the US and Europe.

[patisserie]

You're no better than Jocelyn if you kick her when she's down. I get snarking about people when they're smug and high and mighty - when they deserve it. I wasn't trying to be a hand-slapper, just to appeal to the compassion I've seen from you in other threads, when other fundies have life circumstances that suck. Generally, the snarking slows a bit for those people because there are some things that making fun of just makes you a jerk. I'm not saying you have to respect Jocelyn. I just feel like it's like pouring salt in her wounds to post a thousand "I told you so"s right now.

But I've said what I came to say, and you're perfectly right, I cannot change anyone's behavior. I just wanted to make an appeal to your sense of kindness and humanity. Jocelyn is a person, even if she's not your favorite. Come on, does anybody really deserve to have a whole thread on a forum devoted to tearing them down?

[Deleted03]

You're no better than Jocelyn if you kick her when she's down. I get snarking about people when they're smug and high and mighty - when they deserve it. I wasn't trying to be a hand-slapper, just to appeal to the compassion I've seen from you in other threads, when other fundies have life circumstances that suck. Generally, the snarking slows a bit for those people because there are some things that making fun of just makes you a jerk. I'm not saying you have to respect Jocelyn. I just feel like it's like pouring salt in her wounds to post a thousand "I told you so"s right now.

But I've said what I came to say, and you're perfectly right, I cannot change anyone's behavior. I just wanted to make an appeal to your sense of kindness and humanity. Jocelyn is a person, even if she's not your favorite. Come on, does anybody really deserve to have a whole thread on a forum devoted to tearing them down?

what nail polish color do you use? I only had two shades of red as I'm trying to get all naturals and don'T have much money to put in it. I think red suits me the most, but maybe I should try something else, any rec for pale skin?

[Guest Anonymous]

I like red nails, but think of red as mostly a 'going out for the night' colour. I like natural colours best for daytime. I really really like the shine you get from buffing and oiling your nails regularly, but my nails are thin so I don't like to buff too often or they become even thinner....

[Dee-Dee]

" I get snarking about people when they're smug and high and mighty - when they deserve it. "

My problem with Jocelyn is that I think she does come across as very high and mighty - no I don't know her in person and she obviously could be very humble. But on her blog and feelin feminine she often made me feel as though I was a crummy Christian or woman - because I don't wear skirts all the time, choose to shave my legs, wear makeup, don't follow the Torah, and date. I just don't get this courtship thing. If you are going to "court" by all means go for it - but don't act like you are all better because you are betrothed and then break off a relationship 2x....that is NO different from dating.

[fluttershies]

You're no better than Jocelyn if you kick her when she's down. I get snarking about people when they're smug and high and mighty - when they deserve it. I wasn't trying to be a hand-slapper, just to appeal to the compassion I've seen from you in other threads, when other fundies have life circumstances that suck. Generally, the snarking slows a bit for those people because there are some things that making fun of just makes you a jerk. I'm not saying you have to respect Jocelyn. I just feel like it's like pouring salt in her wounds to post a thousand "I told you so"s right now.

But I've said what I came to say, and you're perfectly right, I cannot change anyone's behavior. I just wanted to make an appeal to your sense of kindness and humanity. Jocelyn is a person, even if she's not your favorite. Come on, does anybody really deserve to have a whole thread on a forum devoted to tearing them down?

She's blogged countless times on purity and the evils of dating (not even hand-holding is OK!) and giving your heart away - but now has two broken courtships behind her. Yes her life circumstances suck, but I doubt she would have had much compassion to a girl in her situation before this happened.

[dairyfreelife]

You're no better than Jocelyn if you kick her when she's down. I get snarking about people when they're smug and high and mighty - when they deserve it. I wasn't trying to be a hand-slapper, just to appeal to the compassion I've seen from you in other threads, when other fundies have life circumstances that suck. Generally, the snarking slows a bit for those people because there are some things that making fun of just makes you a jerk. I'm not saying you have to respect Jocelyn. I just feel like it's like pouring salt in her wounds to post a thousand "I told you so"s right now.

But I've said what I came to say, and you're perfectly right, I cannot change anyone's behavior. I just wanted to make an appeal to your sense of kindness and humanity. Jocelyn is a person, even if she's not your favorite. Come on, does anybody really deserve to have a whole thread on a forum devoted to tearing them down?

I don't really see anyone here tearing her down. Did I miss something? :confusion-scratchheadblue: I think most of us sympathize, but really, she wouldn't likely be opposed to snark on any one of us for having their heart broken in a dating relationship. Not snarking on her, just stating what I think from what I have read.

[Georgiana]

You're no better than Jocelyn if you kick her when she's down. I get snarking about people when they're smug and high and mighty - when they deserve it. I wasn't trying to be a hand-slapper, just to appeal to the compassion I've seen from you in other threads, when other fundies have life circumstances that suck. Generally, the snarking slows a bit for those people because there are some things that making fun of just makes you a jerk. I'm not saying you have to respect Jocelyn. I just feel like it's like pouring salt in her wounds to post a thousand "I told you so"s right now.

But I've said what I came to say, and you're perfectly right, I cannot change anyone's behavior. I just wanted to make an appeal to your sense of kindness and humanity. Jocelyn is a person, even if she's not your favorite. Come on, does anybody really deserve to have a whole thread on a forum devoted to tearing them down?

I would hope that Jocelyn would take a look at this and realize that she now knows how her smugness and high and mighty attitude may have affected others when they were hurting. I hope that from this sadness that she learns compassion and sees that there is no safe way when it comes to love. I hope she now realizes that life is hard, and that most people are just trying to do the best they can with what they were given. And that if they chose a different road than her, that maybe they have reasons that she might want to ponder before judging them.

Love more, judge less.

Because that's basically a summation of the message of Jesus.

But I will not stop one person from saying what they want to say. Because if Jocelyn, in her pride, judged them; then their attacks are just. Pride goeth before a fall, after all. She made her bed. Why should I stop her from lying in it?

[fundiefun]

Jocelyn wants to write post after post judging others for not living their lives in accordance to what she thinks is right and how "evil" dating is and call me a bitch, but you reap what you sow. It's hard to have compassion for her when she has shown less than that in her posts on her blog.

[patisserie]

Some of that is true, and you raise some valid points. I guess I'm just not sure of the effectiveness of this plan - that Jocelyn would see this and realize she has hurt people. Think back to a time when you have been utterly devastated by something, maybe a breakup, maybe something else - would that be the time you would be most responsive and willing to listen to criticism, however valid? Criticism isn't what I'm arguing against, just the timing. The poor girl has been through enough for the time being, you know? It's also my guess that she feels plenty humiliated on her own and realizes she has had two failed courtships in the face of what she has preached without anyone pointing it out. Pick a fight with her when she's stronger - I have no problem with telling her she's hurt people. She has. I just feel like it's the wrong time. Kicking someone when they're down and all that. Two wrongs don't make a right, and other aphorisms. You run the risk of this kind of thing happening when you put your whole life on the internet, I suppose, but I'll bet she's wishing she hadn't done that now (and she started doing it when she was like 16 - remember that Jocelyn is still pretty young). I'm just arguing for a little grace, perhaps where it is undeserved, but needed.

[fundiefun]

Some of that is true, and you raise some valid points. I guess I'm just not sure of the effectiveness of this plan - that Jocelyn would see this and realize she has hurt people. Think back to a time when you have been utterly devastated by something, maybe a breakup, maybe something else - would that be the time you would be most responsive and willing to listen to criticism, however valid? Criticism isn't what I'm arguing against, just the timing. The poor girl has been through enough for the time being, you know? It's also my guess that she feels plenty humiliated on her own and realizes she has had two failed courtships in the face of what she has preached without anyone pointing it out. Pick a fight with her when she's stronger - I have no problem with telling her she's hurt people. She has. I just feel like it's the wrong time. Kicking someone when they're down and all that. Two wrongs don't make a right, and other aphorisms. You run the risk of this kind of thing happening when you put your whole life on the internet, I suppose, but I'll bet she's wishing she hadn't done that now (and she started doing it when she was like 16 - remember that Jocelyn is still pretty young). I'm just arguing for a little grace, perhaps where it is undeserved, but needed.

I wonder if this whole ordeal not only once but twice will make her mom change her tune and realize that trying to "court" someone you barely know in another country isn't exactly a sure fire recipe for success. I do feel a little bad that this happened not only once, but twice and documented for the world to see on her blog and being fed the idea that this is a way to save "pieces of her heart" when it's clearly not working.

[patisserie]

I wonder if this whole ordeal not only once but twice will make her mom change her tune and realize that trying to "court" someone you barely know in another country isn't exactly a sure fire recipe for success. I do feel a little bad that this happened not only once, but twice and documented for the world to see on her blog and being fed the idea that this is a way to save "pieces of her heart" when it's clearly not working.

Yeah, that's what's breaking my heart about the whole thing. Jocelyn and I disagree on a lot of stuff, but. I've had my heart broken before, but to have it broken in public after being very public with your views about marriage, etc. AND be as young as she is...I imagine it is quite a bit worse for her because so many people know about it/are talking about it.

[fundiefun]

Yeah, that's what's breaking my heart about the whole thing. Jocelyn and I disagree on a lot of stuff, but. I've had my heart broken before, but to have it broken in public after being very public with your views about marriage, etc. AND be as young as she is...I imagine it is quite a bit worse for her because so many people know about it/are talking about it.

I just wonder what the next step will be for her family if they are staying in Costa Rica or returning to the United States because their Costa Rica plan doesn't seem to be going as they imagined since the parents can't legally work there.

[treemom]

You're no better than Jocelyn if you kick her when she's down. I get snarking about people when they're smug and high and mighty - when they deserve it. I wasn't trying to be a hand-slapper, just to appeal to the compassion I've seen from you in other threads, when other fundies have life circumstances that suck. Generally, the snarking slows a bit for those people because there are some things that making fun of just makes you a jerk. I'm not saying you have to respect Jocelyn. I just feel like it's like pouring salt in her wounds to post a thousand "I told you so"s right now.

But I've said what I came to say, and you're perfectly right, I cannot change anyone's behavior. I just wanted to make an appeal to your sense of kindness and humanity. Jocelyn is a person, even if she's not your favorite. Come on, does anybody really deserve to have a whole thread on a forum devoted to tearing them down?

I have more kindness and humanity in my little finger, while snarking on Jocelyn, than the entire Dixon family has.

[Guest Anonymous]

Patisserie - you need to read the terms and conditions that you agreed to when you joined this board. People can say what they like here about whoever they like (or dislike) - handslapping is pretty pointless, very boring and is usually disregarded - especially when it comes from someone whose own posts are also pretty judgemental about the alleged "victim".

It actually wasn't a regular member of the board who posted this tidbit of news, it was an occasional poster who pretends to be friends with Jocelyn and other fundies just so s/he can report here from time to time. Usually s/he is pretty much ignored. Your best bet would have been to stay away and let the thread die, instead of bumping it to the top of the board with your every post. It just makes you look like an attention whore and it keeps Jocelyn's business in the limelight. :roll:

[Beeks]

All of this lecturing is getting really obnoxious. The point of this board is to discuss fundies and their idiotic ideas. When something happens to a fundie, and not even a very nice fundie, to prove their ideas are stupid, we are going to discuss it. Nobody has said a thing directly to Jocelyn and as far as discussions on this board go, this one has been plenty kind and sympathetic to her. She doesnt even deserve that, but the majority of people who post here are pretty decent human beings. You look ridiculous marching in here and lecturing us about grace when really Jocelyn and her family should pull their heads out of their asses and protect themselves. We aren't causing her this pain. Her parents' psychotic religious beliefs and odd insistence on matching their very young daughter with random Internet dudes they barely know are causing this pain. Go lecture them.

[darkplumaged]

Her parents' psychotic religious beliefs and odd insistence on matching their very young daughter with random Internet dudes they barely know are causing this pain. Go lecture them.

Really. No one died. A young woman with stupid ideas broke up with her Internet boyfriend. Pretty snarkable, if you ask me.

[Dinorah]

Jocelyn and the Feelin Feminine website were my gateway fundies.

Anyway, I don't see anyone attacking her or gloating. I can sympathize, but the fact remains that she and her family devote a huge lot of their time and energy to saying that if you are a woman who dates, wears pants, studies, works, lives outside of home you're bound for damnation and unhappiness (the whole "feminism hurts women¨", and then it turns out that the ideal model of parent-lead "courtship" that has to last very little and go straight to marriage doesn't work and can go wrong just as much as secular dating. Perhaps it should give the Dixons food for thought, that women might have a better chance of finding a suitable husband if they aren't so isolated, pressured to marry so young and not really allowed to do much with themselves except housework. And that maybe "giving away pieces of your heart" isn't such of a big deal-

[Deleted03]

I like red nails, but think of red as mostly a 'going out for the night' colour. I like natural colours best for daytime. I really really like the shine you get from buffing and oiling your nails regularly, but my nails are thin so I don't like to buff too often or they become even thinner....

good piont. I guess I'm just too lazy just for a night out.

[formergothardite]

I have no doubt that Jocelyn would not show compassion to a friend in the same situation who had used dating. She would probably use them as an example of why dating fails. Well we are using her as an example of how courtship can fail and cause broken hearts. Over and over.