Duggars and Debt-free

[roddma]

Supporters boast about the Duggars are debt-free. If you really think, they are debt-free because they lived well-below the average American lifestyle. It is easy to be out of debt if you keep kids out of college and live in 900 sq ft houses. I am not knocking anyone for cutting corners every now and then or buying used. However, in their case,i would give them more credit for being debt-free if they lived the average Joe's life like sending their kids to college and buying new shoes. Thoughts?

[Jessica]

I'd be debt-free too if I were being paid $25,000 per episode for a tv show about my life. Actually I am debt-free, but you get the idea. ;)

[NJMom]

I think that the Duggars were actually lucky in that they were able to obtain a lot of cheap real estate many years ago, and Jim Bob knew how to do a lot of chores like fixing up cars, rental houses, etc. Also, I've seen in mentioned that they might still have health insurance from when he was a state senator in Arkansas. I don't think they were wealthy, but probably living an average lifestyle when the show first started. They didn't have enough money to finish their house until TLC stepped in, and we saw them buying used clothes and shoes, sewing hideous jumpers, and shopping at a discount grocery store. It's quite likely most families with this many children would be living in poverty. Add in the tv show, book sales, speaking engagements, and you have a pretty nice lifestyle. Even if the show ended tomorrow, Jim Bob probably has enough saved til he gets well into his retirement years. It's the younger children I worry about, once they reach adulthood. So far, none of the adult children have shown that they can truly make it on their own without Jim Bob's help.

[Sola]

Well we know they are in real estate. I bet Jim Boob bought houses before the housing boom and did them up for either sale or rents them. He probably still owns a fair few now and although house prices have fallen, if he doesn't need to sell them to raise money, he can just sit tight and wait out the recession.

[emmiedahl]

Didn't the house they lived in actually belong to his mother?

[socalrules]

Supporters boast about the Duggars are debt-free. If you really think, they are debt-free because they lived well-below the average American lifestyle. It is easy to be out of debt if you keep kids out of college and live in 900 sq ft houses. I am not knocking anyone for cutting corners every now and then or buying used. However, in their case,i would give them more credit for being debt-free if they lived the average Joe's life like sending their kids to college and buying new shoes. Thoughts?

I totally agree. If you add in the fact that they live in a small southern state where the cost of living is lower than nearly every other state, you can live the fundie dream.

I think that had the show not come along, this family would be seriously struggling. The big house would probably still not have been built to completion. I know in the early years of the show Jim Bob made a big deal about making money from cell phone towers on their property but I seriously doubt those towers would fund the family’s lifestyle today. When you see how they were living before, it screamed poverty. I doubt they had all the extra food we see them buying now at Aldi. I am sure potato chips were few and far between then.

I would bet that once the show is over, the family will go back to the bare bones budget. I believe Jim Bob has money stored up but I don’t see him spending like they do now. As it is, I am sure TLC comps the more expensive clothes, toys, etc. Without the show, the speaking engagements will likely dry up, and those that will be left, are unlikely to pay enough to support their huge family. As it is, I doubt the speaking engagements are paying more than a few thousand dollars and maybe travel expenses. No way do they make politician or business mogul type speaking fees. I hoped the kids enjoyed all the trips because those experiences are coming to an end. The lifestyle they lead is impossible to maintain without the show.

[gustava]

Also, I've seen in mentioned that they might still have health insurance from when he was a state senator in Arkansas..

No health insurance from his state senator days.

[bananacat]

I don't understand why being debt free is considered something to be proud of, or something that proves you're a good person. And I especially don't understand this attitude that debt is the worst possible thing ever. Millions of people use debt wisely, and end up better off for it. But even if I had very little income and no forseeable way to get out of debt, you better believe that I'd go into debt rather than let my kids starve or live like animals. Debt kinda sucks, but neglecting kids sucks even more. If you can't meet the needs of your children, you don't get to feel proud and brag about being debt-free.

[lilwriter85]

I think that the Duggars were actually lucky in that they were able to obtain a lot of cheap real estate many years ago, and Jim Bob knew how to do a lot of chores like fixing up cars, rental houses, etc. Also, I've seen in mentioned that they might still have health insurance from when he was a state senator in Arkansas. I don't think they were wealthy, but probably living an average lifestyle when the show first started. They didn't have enough money to finish their house until TLC stepped in, and we saw them buying used clothes and shoes, sewing hideous jumpers, and shopping at a discount grocery store. It's quite likely most families with this many children would be living in poverty. Add in the tv show, book sales, speaking engagements, and you have a pretty nice lifestyle. Even if the show ended tomorrow, Jim Bob probably has enough saved til he gets well into his retirement years. It's the younger children I worry about, once they reach adulthood. So far, none of the adult children have shown that they can truly make it on their own without Jim Bob's help.

I also worry for the younger kids and out of the adult children the one that could make it on his own is John. John is hardworking and has the skills and personality to work away from Boob. But John is still getting help from Boob. The J'Slaves don't have the skills to make it on their own. Jana is 22 and doesn't have work experience outside the home. Jill is supposedly in nursing school, but she is pretty naive about a lot of things.

[lilwriter85]

I don't understand why being debt free is considered something to be proud of, or something that proves you're a good person. And I especially don't understand this attitude that debt is the worst possible thing ever. Millions of people use debt wisely, and end up better off for it. But even if I had very little income and no forseeable way to get out of debt, you better believe that I'd go into debt rather than let my kids starve or live like animals. Debt kinda sucks, but neglecting kids sucks even more. If you can't meet the needs of your children, you don't get to feel proud and brag about being debt-free.

I can understand people having some pride in being debt free. But I hate how the Duggars pretty much talk about being debt free all the time, it gets annoying after awhile. I agree many people use debt wisely and some people go into debt for reasons such as healthcare costs, home improvement, education, having a house etc. Sometimes I get the vibe that the Duggars have it in their heads that all people have debt because of compulsive shopping or bad decisions.

[Buzzard]

I dont think they would have made it, atleast not comfortably, without the show. Think about how many cars, cell phones, computers etc are needed once your kids get to their teens. The monthly cell phone bill alone is probably close to a mortgage. Sure, you can live without cell phones, but its really hard to homeschool your kids and actually teach them to be successful (which we know they arent...) without computers, internet access etc.

JB is sly like a fox and I dont buy for one second he paid cash for everything. Its just not possible.

[Tempehst]

I don't understand why being debt free is considered something to be proud of, or something that proves you're a good person. And I especially don't understand this attitude that debt is the worst possible thing ever. Millions of people use debt wisely, and end up better off for it. But even if I had very little income and no forseeable way to get out of debt, you better believe that I'd go into debt rather than let my kids starve or live like animals. Debt kinda sucks, but neglecting kids sucks even more. If you can't meet the needs of your children, you don't get to feel proud and brag about being debt-free.

For one thing, being in debt certainly limits your mobility and independence. We went through a period of unemployment after we had our first child and the fact that we had no debt made it a lot easier to live off of our savings until my husband found work. We only had to worry about paying rent, food, gas and the electric bill every month.

Now we have 2 car payments and a mortgage to pay before we even get to food, gas, electricity and all that other stuff. Granted, our cars are a lot nicer than the crappy one I had paid for in cash (but I did get every cent out of that car before it died), but it's a lot more expensive with interest and full coverage insurance.

But in a society that encourages debt with cheap credit and very low interest rates for savers, I think the Duggars and others like them are pretty dumb for not getting in debt. If you save your money in cash (say, to buy a house), it's going to lose value since the inflation rate is much higher than any savings interest rate you'd get.

[chiccy]

I've never understood how Jim Bob gets away with not working. We all know he did some work in politics, but did that really pay the (pre-TLC) bills? His current gig in "real estate" or whatever hardly seems to be a full-time job. (They own some properties...OK) I've noticed the show is pretty evasive about this issue.

Did he always not work or was this just since the show started? How did they get the money to buy the properties initially?

[Kitty]

I've never understood how Jim Bob gets away with not working. We all know he did some work in politics, but did that really pay the (pre-TLC) bills? His current gig in "real estate" or whatever hardly seems to be a full-time job. (They own some properties...OK) I've noticed the show is pretty evasive about this issue.

Did he always not work or was this just since the show started? How did they get the money to buy the properties initially?

JB did run the car lot and I've seen it mentioned that Michelle did help out (omg!) I may be missing something though, I did watch the first half or so of 14 Kids & Pregnant Again but never finished it, so I don't know.

They did rely heavily on charity, in the form of bags of clothes being left on their doorstep, and friends coming over to help with laundry/cleaning/teaching the kids. They likely also mooch off JD, or they would if TLC hadn't come along.

[persuas1ve]

JB has pretty much been self-employed his entire life. He has owned a used-car lot, run a towing business, owned a convenience store, and apparently worked as a real estate agent.

[Kelya]

I personally like a credit score, so I'm very glad for my credit card that I use responsibly and my student loans, that I also pay responsibly. When I'm looking for a house in 5-8 years, I'll be in a position to get a good interest rate with my credit score, which will end up costing less than hoarding every cent I make for 15 years in a shitty savings account, purchasing bags of cement two at a time. Student loan debt is good on two fronts- you get your education and a chance to prove yourself to future lenders through responsibly managing it. I just don't understand the mentality of limiting yourself now to get limited returns. Sure, I could have taken one class at a time and paid my way through college with my shitty waitressing job, but I'd still be a freshman and now I'm applying to (funded) graduate school positions. You got to spend to get ahead sometimes.

(I have a zillion trillion dollars in student loan debt, and i wouldn't recommend it, but there is a positive spin to it!)

[Mais Pourquoi]

JB has pretty much been self-employed his entire life. He has owned a used-car lot, run a towing business, owned a convenience store, and apparently worked as a real estate agent.

Don't forget the time he spent as a stocker at a grocery store! That's where he learned how to organize all of the food in the Duggar Pantry. :roll:

[snarkykitty]

In that area of Northwest Arkansas (NWA), there are a lot of "millionaires" - people who were very, very smart to buy up land in the late 80s/early 90s, for next to nothing. Hubby has a good dozen or more friends whose families bought low and sold high. With the new airport, golf courses, shopping centers, and franchised businesses, in addition to the growth of Walmart and their setting up vendor offices and new residential neighborhoods, there is a lot of "new money." And they aren't ashamed to brag about it (huge houses, expensive cars). I mean, these people were buying horses for $250k just for a tax shelter. That money goes a long way, there.

However, although they didn't really feel the recession in the early 90s, they are feeling this one. There are a lot of people still holding onto land that they thought would sell based on bigger projects coming to fruition, but now there are huge empty housing developments because nobody's buying right now. I mean, they put in the roads and utilities, but they didn't get any further. You can see one such neighborhood on an episode of 19KAC when Josiah is learning to drive. All those empty streets are residential neighborhoods that just didn't materialize.

[EmmieJ]

I am living as debt free as possible, with my only debt being the mortgage on my home. But that's because when I had an unexpected health issue arise some years ago, I declared bankruptcy so I could pay off my medical bills. Since then, I've refused all credit card offers and live as frugally as possible. All I have are the usual monthly bills for phone, electricity, garbage, groceries, gas, insurance, home and car maintenance, etc.

The Duggars were lucky in their timing. I heard somewhere that JB's parents might have helped him get his start in buying properties (this may or may not be true), but he continued from there on his own. I think he was able to get into the market before it started taking off, but yet he and his large family were living in a tiny rental home, with no vacation in years, and getting all their clothes secondhand. If not for TLC and the show, they could well still be building their home and when it was done, it would have been quite a bit smaller than their TLC-funded one. The furnishings would be mix and match, they wouldn't have all the expensive vehicles JB likes to play on, and I bet you more of the older children would have been married off and out of the house, with the younger girls pressed into earlier slave service in their place.

[3 is enough]

Can you imagine the car insurance bill every month? There are 7 drivers under 25, not including Josh, and they can't even get a good student discount. It's absolutely mind-boggling. With 5 drivers in our family, car insurance is our biggest monthly expense.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they get around it somehow because the kids all drive vehicles from Josh's lot.

[bananacat]

I am living as debt free as possible, with my only debt being the mortgage on my home. But that's because when I had an unexpected health issue arise some years ago, I declared bankruptcy so I could pay off my medical bills. Since then, I've refused all credit card offers and live as frugally as possible. All I have are the usual monthly bills for phone, electricity, garbage, groceries, gas, insurance, home and car maintenance, etc.

The Duggars were lucky in their timing. I heard somewhere that JB's parents might have helped him get his start in buying properties (this may or may not be true), but he continued from there on his own. I think he was able to get into the market before it started taking off, but yet he and his large family were living in a tiny rental home, with no vacation in years, and getting all their clothes secondhand. If not for TLC and the show, they could well still be building their home and when it was done, it would have been quite a bit smaller than their TLC-funded one. The furnishings would be mix and match, they wouldn't have all the expensive vehicles JB likes to play on, and I bet you more of the older children would have been married off and out of the house, with the younger girls pressed into earlier slave service in their place.

Jim Bob's mother appears to have been a pretty savvy businesswoman. It's ironic that Jim Bob would hate for his wife or daughters to take after her, but she most likely did set him up, the same way she is doing with Josh. I know Josh lives in a house owned by her, but I wonder if she'll give it to him or sell it to him for cheap. Jim Bob did dabble a little in real estate but was barely making ends meet. He basically got lucky when a cell phone company offered to pay him tons of money to put a tower on some random little pocket of land he had. As far as I know, the company approached him. Jim Bob didn't really work for it; he just got lucky. Then he got lucky again by getting a tv show. I used to think he was a sleazy but aggressive businessman. Now I think he's just like an older version of Josh and he has had everything handed to him on a platter. Grandma Duggar is the brains of this operation, IMO.

[Witsec7]

lll

The Duggars were lucky in their timing. I heard somewhere that JB's parents might have helped him get his start in buying properties (this may or may not be true), but he continued from there on his own. I think he was able to get into the market before it started taking off, but yet he and his large family were living in a tiny rental home, with no vacation in years, and getting all their clothes secondhand. If not for TLC and the show, they could well still be building their home and when it was done, it would have been quite a bit smaller than their TLC-funded one. The furnishings would be mix and match, they wouldn't have all the expensive vehicles JB likes to play on, and I bet you more of the older children would have been married off and out of the house, with the younger girls pressed into earlier slave service in their place.

Jimboobs father was a small time millionaire who made his money by buying up foreclosures and reselling during the boom years. There are bits an pieces on the internets and property tax records that indicate that after his fathers death, assets (real property) were transferred to Jimboob. This would make sense, since under the patriarchy, his mother returned to his cover. There are indications that his father gave him his hand up in the RE business and likely was an adviser on his business transactions with TLC. I think the whole house was a parlay of TLC income, product placement and promotional consideration. I've tried in vain to find the financial disclosures from Jims old state campaigns and can't. I also think its highly unlikely that buttnugget can maintain his lifestyle based on income from the car lot. IRRC his house is owned free and clear and purchased from Grandma (or a third party) by the Duggars and Anna's parents.

FWIW I know a great many people who live debt free, but none have been given the advantage that the duggars have been given.

[emmiedahl]

Jimboobs father was a small time millionaire who made his money by buying up foreclosures and reselling during the boom years. There are bits an pieces on the internets and property tax records that indicate that after his fathers death, assets (real property) were transferred to Jimboob. This would make sense, since under the patriarchy, his mother returned to his cover. There are indications that his father gave him his hand up in the RE business and likely was an adviser on his business transactions with TLC. I think the whole house was a parlay of TLC income, product placement and promotional consideration. I've tried in vain to find the financial disclosures from Jims old state campaigns and can't. I also think its highly unlikely that buttnugget can maintain his lifestyle based on income from the car lot. IRRC his house is owned free and clear and purchased from Grandma (or a third party) by the Duggars and Anna's parents.

FWIW I know a great many people who live debt free, but none have been given the advantage that the duggars have been given.

This is what I have gathered as well.

How many of us here would be debt-free if we inherited real estate rental properties, a few businesses and could live in a family home rent-free?

JB was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

The one thing I've never understood in the debt-free lifestyle is why renting a home is okay while having a mortgage is bad. Um, you still have to pay that X amount if you want a roof over your head. And for MrSquirrel and me personally, the idea of paying rent for years and years and years while we sock away a little money here and there to pay cash for a house just to avoid debt is beyond stupid. (And this is in no way a judgement on people who prefer to rent. I know people who have zero desire to ever own a home, and that is their own business, and I know there are pros to having a landlord to take care of everything.)

We are careful with our debt. We have 1 car loan and a mortgage. Our credit card is for emergencies so there's almost nothing on the balance right now. I've watched a few friends and family members fall into the debt trap of living far above their means, and most of them are paying for it dearly now and have had to file bankruptcy, etc, and I don't have a lot of pity to spare for them.

We save and pay cash for most things we want, but I'm not going to hang my head in shame for taking out a loan for a dependable vehicle, a nice home that costs us less than renting, or any medical emergencies that may come up. And piss on anyone who thinks they are superior because they don't. There is a happy medium between acting like debt is of the devil and being in debt so badly you'll never get your head above water because you wanted to keep up with the Joneses, but of course, everything is one extreme or the other in fundie land.

[roddma]

This is what I have gathered as well.

How many of us here would be debt-free if we inherited real estate rental properties, a few businesses and could live in a family home rent-free?

JB was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple.

But I don't understand why Jim Bob talks about him and Deanna eating rice for breakfast because there was no food in the house. This was when they moved in a motel for awhile.Maybe JL acquired all these properties afterward.

"The one thing I've never understood in the debt-free lifestyle is why renting a home is okay while having a mortgage is bad. Um, you still have to pay that X amount if you want a roof over your head. "

I agree I don' get how renting is better than being in debt. At least you will have collateral and something to sell back if you have to. After a few years , you have shelled out thousands on renting without the possibility of owning. Try telling fans this.