"I'm interested in adoption - anyone got a spare baby?"

[ilovetchotchkes]

It is now very possible to adopt from China inside of a year from the time you submit your paperwork if you specifically request a special needs child. The ones who are waiting 5+ years are waiting in the line for a non-special needs child.

Thats not what my friend in the process was told. And when they signed up, initially adoption from china was a 2-3 year thing. Then China passed a bunch of laws that stated that they had to domestically adopt more kids rather than adopt them out into a foreign country.

I'm just going on what my friend has told me, and another friend, who looked into it but decided against it, told me the same thing.

[smores]

I follow Ashley, a pretty well known blogger - ashleyannphotography.com - and I'm not sure but she's doing the special needs route and I *think* she mentioned it could be 18 months to two years? She just got her paperwork sent off so I know she mentioned a timeline sometime in the past two months.

[BlueChair]

Thats not what my friend in the process was told. And when they signed up, initially adoption from china was a 2-3 year thing. Then China passed a bunch of laws that stated that they had to domestically adopt more kids rather than adopt them out into a foreign country.

I'm just going on what my friend has told me, and another friend, who looked into it but decided against it, told me the same thing.

Well, they have the gist of it right. No laws were passed, but China has slowed things way down and made adoptions of healthy or easy-to-place children much more difficult. It was becoming an image problem for them to look like one of their major exports was children. However, if someone wants to adopt a child who has already been classified as special needs, the wait time is short. That isn't a realistic option for everyone though and it is good for people to know their limits.

[ilovetchotchkes]

I follow Ashley, a pretty well known blogger - ashleyannphotography.com - and I'm not sure but she's doing the special needs route and I *think* she mentioned it could be 18 months to two years? She just got her paperwork sent off so I know she mentioned a timeline sometime in the past two months.

Maybe its changed again... I just know a year/ year and 1/2 ago it was still a really REALLY long wait.

[Didi]

Wow as I am researching this it does seem over the past 5 years or so China has really started setting a lot of limits. the families I know who adopted from China were all or almost all more then 4 years ago.

Part of the reason we want to adopt out of foster care IS the shorter wait time and less fees, but another big part is that we feel like there are lots of children even in our own state who would love to have loving parents. I mean in an ideal world I'd adopt 3 kids 6 and under, but we really want to be open. We just, at this point, don't feel equip to adopt severely handicap children. And, it will probably be at least a year or more before we can even start the process.

We have done 3 rounds of Clomid with no pregnancies.

[valsa]

From what I gather, from researching China adoption, there are now three potential timeframes.

Healthy child: expect to wait 5+ years and jump through a bunch of hoops

"Special needs" child (minor special needs): approx 2-3 year wait, depending on gender and what you're open to & still pretty hard to qualify

"Special focus" child (major special needs): a new-ish program, wait time is about 12-18 months & easier to qualify (for instance, this is the only program single mothers can adopt from China through)

[BlueChair]

We have done 3 rounds of Clomid with no pregnancies.

Just wanted to say I'm sorry you've had to go through this. Good luck to you on your journey.

[Terrie]

What bugs me is people who refuse to consider adoption because it wouldn't be "their" child. I always suspect that they want a kid for some sort of ego trip. "Look, my genes continue!"

"Shady" adoptions can be difficult to pin down. Even when you do everything right, there might be something you're not being told. I remember reading the account of a woman who adopted two times, two different countries. One child was a "legal" orphan (living family who could not financially care for the child) and one had been separated from family during journey to a refugee camp and the family was still trying to find the child. They were both perfectly legal adoptions, but the mother had gone in thinking she was helping a child without any family, so finding out the truth after the fact was a shock. Children doesn't always have the luxury of waiting for a society to change, so I personally think adoption needs to happen parallel to societal change. But it's also very important to be honest as to why children are available for adoption and think about what you can do to help future children avoid needing to be placed.

[polabear]

With international adoption, things change quickly. Three years ago, you could bring home a healthy baby in 18 months, if you adopted from Ethiopia. No weight restrictions, no family size restrictions, no real health restrictions. Today, most reputable agencies aren't even accepting new families into Ethiopia programs, UNLESS you are willing to take a waiting child. Waiting children are all older, part of sibling groups, and/or have serious medical issues. Which pretty much exactly describes a lot of kids in Foster Care.

It looks like Bulgaria is going to be the new "easy" place to adopt from, although they don't have many babies.

Bulgarian Adoption Requirements:

Married couples and singles, age 30-55 years. The older the parent, generally the older the child the family will be referred. Bulgaria has no requirement regarding the length of marriage or prior divorces, but instead looks at the strength of the current marriage and relationship history. We recommend a minimum of 2 years of marriage. Also eligible are families with up to 4 children at home and $30,000 minimum annual income.

I haven't spoken to anyone about Bulgaria, so I don't know if they have unspoken weight and health requirements like many countries do.

[valsa]

Guatemala closed down in large part due to shady adoptions. It broke my heart to read about situations where people had legally adopted children from there, thinking everything was on the up and up, only to find out much later that the child they adopted had been stolen from their birth mother (sometimes by relatives, sometimes by strangers) Everyone loses in those situations- adopted parents, child, biological parents.

It looks like Bulgaria is going to be the new "easy" place to adopt from, although they don't have many babies.

In a weird way, I'm curious if Morocco is ever going to enter the adoption equation in a big way. They have babies (last year only 46 children were adopted from there but over half of those were under a year old) but the catch is that you have to be Muslim or convert to adopt from there. I know a lot of people (pre-dominantly Christians) who adopt with the attitude that "of course our child will be raised in our faith", even when that might not have been the religion of the home/country they were adopted from (this is especially troubling to me when it occurs in a foster care situation) I'm curious if they'd be willing to go the other way and change their religion to the child's in order to adopt (I’m assuming a lot of people would just lie instead)

[Didi]

Thanks for the well wishes! :) I am only 28, so I know that we "have time", but it is heartbreaking when you think it might have worked and then... Aunt Flo shows her fugly face instead. :)

How do y'all feel about adopting children whose parents rights have been terminated? (like here in the us)

[ilovetchotchkes]

Guatemala closed down in large part due to shady adoptions. It broke my heart to read about situations where people had legally adopted children from there, thinking everything was on the up and up, only to find out much later that the child they adopted had been stolen from their birth mother (sometimes by relatives, sometimes by strangers) Everyone loses in those situations- adopted parents, child, biological parents.

In a weird way, I'm curious if Morocco is ever going to enter the adoption equation in a big way. They have babies (last year only 46 children were adopted from there but over half of those were under a year old) but the catch is that you have to be Muslim or convert to adopt from there. I know a lot of people (pre-dominantly Christians) who adopt with the attitude that "of course our child will be raised in our faith", even when that might not have been the religion of the home/country they were adopted from (this is especially troubling to me when it occurs in a foster care situation) I'm curious if they'd be willing to go the other way and change their religion to the child's in order to adopt (I’m assuming a lot of people would just lie instead)

But don't you have to have like proof from a clergy member that you actually, you know attend?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Internal demand to adopt kids in China has increased lately, particularly after the Sichuan earthquake. There are lots of Chinese citizens who want to adopt Chinese kids now.

[valsa]

But don't you have to have like proof from a clergy member that you actually, you know attend?

IIRC, if you're already Muslim you need a verification of character from your Imam (sp?) but if you're converting you just need to sign paperwork in Morocco stating that.

[Maul the Koala]

There must be some sort of fast-track going on, the mom on this blog started the process in summer 2010 and brought the little girl (Gracie Joy) to the US in summer 2011. It looks like they brought the older girl (Wesleigh Jane) to the US in February 2010.

baseballstobows.blogspot.com

It's hard for me because I know it's either surrogacy or adoption. I'm not willing to risk going off my meds unless absolutely necessary. I've had way too many suicide attempts off my meds to even contemplate it.

[Rachel333]

Guatemala closed down in large part due to shady adoptions. It broke my heart to read about situations where people had legally adopted children from there, thinking everything was on the up and up, only to find out much later that the child they adopted had been stolen from their birth mother (sometimes by relatives, sometimes by strangers) Everyone loses in those situations- adopted parents, child, biological parents.

In a weird way, I'm curious if Morocco is ever going to enter the adoption equation in a big way. They have babies (last year only 46 children were adopted from there but over half of those were under a year old) but the catch is that you have to be Muslim or convert to adopt from there. I know a lot of people (pre-dominantly Christians) who adopt with the attitude that "of course our child will be raised in our faith", even when that might not have been the religion of the home/country they were adopted from (this is especially troubling to me when it occurs in a foster care situation) I'm curious if they'd be willing to go the other way and change their religion to the child's in order to adopt (I’m assuming a lot of people would just lie instead)

Interesting. I could see non-religious people doing that, and maybe some Christians, but probably not fundies. It was drilled into our heads that we never lie about being Christians, even if we would be killed for admitting that we were Christian. I think it was Corrie Ten Boom who was a big hero because she never lied about what she was doing, though it could have been someone else. (Perhaps it shows poor character, but I never really agreed. If my options are say I'm not Christian and live or say I'm Christian and die, I'd probably choose the first, and I'd want anyone I cared about to do the same. And if I was being hidden from the Nazis, I would want the person helping me to be willing to lie for me.)

Muslim babies would also take a lot of extra praying over. :roll: I guess could see some fundies going the other way, though, and lying for Jesus so they could save a Muslim baby.

I'd guess that some other African countries are going to be the next big countries to adopt from, but I haven't been following things too closely lately.

[polabear]

It looks like their second daughter from China was a "special focus" child. Their home study was already done, so only needed updates. I'm betting they didn't have to go back through the same process. I found a post that says for their first daughter, they waited 3 years for a referral. The second time, they adopted a little older, and had a waiting child in mind.

[valsa]

I guess could see some fundies going the other way, though, and lying for Jesus so they could save a Muslim baby.

This pretty much what I assume would happen.

It looks like their second daughter from China was a "special focus" child. Their home study was already done, so only needed updates. I'm betting they didn't have to go back through the same process. I found a post that says for their first daughter, they waited 3 years for a referral. The second time, they adopted a little older, and had a waiting child in mind.

"Special focus" children are also the only ones (outside of rare twin situations) where you can adopt two from China at once. If you adopt one special focus child, then you can adopt another special focus, a special needs, or a healthy child either at the same time or within a year without starting the process all over again. I'm not sure if adopting a special focus child puts you on some "fast track" to a special needs or healthy child though.

[polabear]

Yeah, it looks like they might have adopted healthy (or at least younger) the first time, and then turned around within a year and adopted a special focus child. That would explain the "fast track".

[LilMissMetaphor]

nihaoyall.com/2008/02/dear-anonymous.html

This mother mentions how they got so many kids from China within a relatively short time period.

She says that wanting a young, healthy girl = loooong wait time.

[Kitchen Princess]

It is now very possible to adopt from China inside of a year from the time you submit your paperwork if you specifically request a special needs child. The ones who are waiting 5+ years are waiting in the line for a non-special needs child.

I know someone who got a second girl from China who was only 18 months old, and it only took a year to get her. Their first child was a baby girl from China, their second was a toddler boy from Haiti, and they rescued their 10 yo son from Haiti in the first few days after the earthquake (he's 13 now). Except for the first child, all of the kids were acquired within 18 months of starting the process, and all within, oh, about the last 4 years. I didn't know them when they got their first girl, and she was at least 5 when we met. Then I got the toddler boy, and the next 2 happened in what seems like a short time. I know the mom was absolutely dogged about doing the paperwork and making the phone calls, especially in Haiti. They were in the "right" part of the process when the earthquake happened, and had already adopted through this group, and were well known. They flew into Haiti, got the boy, got visas and flew back to Miami all within 6 hours, when hundreds and hundreds of people were waiting to get out and the line in the embassy was massive (I saw pictures) and only military planes were flying (they begged for space on a military flight and made it on). Soon after they got him out, they closed Haitian adoptions and all that scandal with the church people trafficking the kids into Dominican Republic.

I don't know how it all worked out for them, but....they think god did it all for them, of course. Fuck all the others.

[Bella99]

Thanks for the well wishes! :) I am only 28, so I know that we "have time", but it is heartbreaking when you think it might have worked and then... Aunt Flo shows her fugly face instead. :)

How do y'all feel about adopting children whose parents rights have been terminated? (like here in the us)

After doing the homework on adoption (too old, poor, and 1 too many divorces) and a couple rounds of clomid, we did ivf and have a little girl. Get a hysterosalpingiogram (hope I spelled that right). Go for laparoscopy (I had endometriosis and cysts all over my ovaries). Get yourself checked out by an endocrinologist ( I had hyperprolactinemia). Make your husband get the standard sperm count and motility (my husband had a high sperm concentration but low volume and motility - a male fertility specialist proved very helpful). I was 34 when we started trying and 37 when Her Maj was born.

All this is not to dissuade you from adopting, just to let you know 3 rounds of clomid is no where near the end of the infertility road. We would have been thrilled to adopt, but we did want a healthy child under 18 mos. and that was very unlikely to happen. Best wishes whichever road you choose to take, I remember how hard it was.

[Elle]

The thing is though, you have no idea if the IVF is gonna fail. you know?

Some people don't do it because in their state, the babies can be taken back by the birth mother up to 6 months after the adoption. Its not that they don't want a child that isn't "white newborn or perfect" they're afraid that they are going to adopt a baby, love it, raise it as their own and have the birth mother change her mind.

Look up Baby Veronica. Her bolded abandoned the mother when pregnant and the child after birth, which, in the state of birth meant he had no rights to even contest an adoption, yet the adoptive parents sought his approval, which he gave in court. Then he changed his mind. Without a leg to stand on, he invoked the Indian Child Welfare Act, even though he is only 1% Native American and the child is only HALF a percent while being 50% Mexican. The father never had anything to do with the Cherokee Nation until deciding he wanted the child back. The ICWA says that any child claimed by the tribe must be in the custody of a member of the tribe unless the leaders give permission for a non-tribal person to have custody. The parents Veronica has known didn't know the biodad had any Native American (especially just 1%), and even the biomom never knew. Only when it was convenient was it brought up.

January 1st, when she was 2, her mom and dad had to give her to the biodad who established abandonment and changed his mind and abused the ICWA when it benefited him. My blonde-haired blue-eyed daughter has more Cherokee in her than half a percent, and I can't fathom the Cherokee Nation claiming they have the right to decide her future if her father and I were to decide to adopt her out.

[Alecto]

I realize I am a total judgmental bitch about this, but nothing pisses me off more than the fact that there are thousands of children in foster care eligible for adoption, and folks would rather pay for either IVF or the flat out extortion fees that private adoption or foreign adoption costs.

I am infertile, so I know how hard that can be. I've mourned my not being able to have children, made peace with it. But really? Why adopt a special needs child from China when there are special needs children in the US who need parents as well? It just seems ridiculous.

[Elle]

I must say I have been guilty of the "just adopt" phrase/thought/mindset. But, mine has been in cases where these women are saying they have battled infertility for X number of years (usually like 5 - 10) and they are resigned to the fact they will never be parents. And, I guess my viewpoint is biological children isn't the only way to be a mom/dad. I mean yes if you want a healthy, white, newborn you're going to have an expensive really hard time of it, but if you are willing to adopt an older children or internationally (I know y'all are saying it's getting harder, and I don't disbelieve you. But, I know a LOT of fundies/fundy-lites who have adopted internationally several times) it's a lot easier.

Or the fact that after hundreds of thousands of dollars in IVF (Assuming insurance didnt cover it or whatever) you could have adopted a baby for a fraction of that cost.

But, I can see how/why it's hurtful to put it that way. And I try not to SAY it even when I think it.

IVF is about $25k a pop, with a 33% chance of having a baby. Adoption is rarely less than twice that. IF you are approved. Foreign adoptions are always more. The wealthier fundies are lucky to have plenty of people willing to help them pay for it. It's "easier" in that they don't deny people for quite as much as US agencies, but the costs are ultimately higher and there can be a lot of bureaucratic red tape to cut through.

A round or two of IVF may result in a baby that someone can't take away because they changes their minds, making this option less. Or you might be someone who takes 10 rounds so that a few tries at adoption is less. Some couples are lucky enough to have help for one option but not the other. Some infertile couples are denied adoption because of the very condition causing the infertility. Neither is a sure thing, and infertile couples don't arrive at either option lightly, and I guarantee you that infertile people have given this a lot more thought than you ever could. Saying "for a fraction etc" really belittles what infertile couples go through. It's very very hurtful to even think that adoption is always only a fraction of the cost of IVF. It's not, and the risks of having a baby taken back are very real. Estimates vary since there is no mandate to report, but an estimated third to half of adoptions are false-starts, meaning anything from paying fees to start an adoption and it not happening in the end, to even having the child for several months or even longer and having to give the child back. For many infertile couples, the thought of having a dream fulfilled and then a child ripped away makes this a last resort.