"I'm interested in adoption - anyone got a spare baby?"

[Guest Anonymous]

News came from Razing Ruth today that she and Rachel are safely back at Ruth's place.

This commenter expressed an interest in adopting the baby, in the comments section.

MandySueFeb 21, 2012 06:39 PM

Would you please e-mail me at *snip*

I am close to NW AR and would love to be able to do what I can for Rachel.

My husband I have do not have children and are interested in adopting. Please contact me.

Thank you.

Amanda

mandysue-mandysue.blogspot.com/

I understand infertility issues at a personal level, and I feel for her, but isn't it in bad taste to capitalise on someone else's trauma, by leaving your contact details in their blog comments, just on the off-chance there is a baby going spare?

[Angri-la]

If you've never adopted you might not understand. Is it polite? No. Would I have done that? No, but I can absolutely understand the desperation of an infertile couple trying any legal means to get a baby. Taste goes out the windows sometimes, when one's primal maternal desire takes over.

I think contacting her privately would have been much more appropriate, and likely give them a better chance.

I wrote some desperate letters to pregnant women in my day, and, looking back, it isn't something I could do now, but I did do it.

[Guest Anonymous]

Maybe I'm totally not getting the context. Private adoption is not a big thing in the UK outside a few mainly Catholic adoption agencies so it just seems unheard of to make contact with strangers and drop heavy hints about wanting their baby. I guess the 'competition' is less overt as it is more about making the best application into a pool, rather than physically finding a baby to adopt.

[Lady Elaine]

If you look through her blog you see that she looks to be 40-50 years old. And not in the best health. Not the first choice for a newborn, I would think.

[Maul the Koala]

I'm not surprised. I've seen it happen on a few other blogs/sites where someone has an unwanted pregnancy and is thinking about adoption.

[lilwriter85]

I'm not surprised. I've seen it happen on a few other blogs/sites where someone has an unwanted pregnancy and is thinking about adoption.

I have seen it happen too. There was a thread on here about a similar incident that happend on Post Secret in which there was a secret about a woman getting an abortion and another woman asked Frank to put her up email in hopes that she get the woman to allow her adopt the baby. The woman who got a lot of hate emails and Frank later took down the email address.

[Rachel333]

Maybe it's understandable, but that doesn't make it okay. I do feel for her, but that was completely inappropriate.

[polabear]

As someone who can't have babies naturally (well, I can, but the husband is snipped), my first impulse was to be all "I'll adopt!" Then I realized I was being an asshat and didn't say anything.

There are lots of adoption agencies and lots of ways to legally get babies. Its hard, and can be expensive. Trolling blogs is not one of them.

[Elle]

Maybe I'm totally not getting the context. Private adoption is not a big thing in the UK outside a few mainly Catholic adoption agencies so it just seems unheard of to make contact with strangers and drop heavy hints about wanting their baby. I guess the 'competition' is less overt as it is more about making the best application into a pool, rather than physically finding a baby to adopt.

Agency adoptions in the US are notoriously difficult and perfectly fine people are turned down all the time for the stupidest of reasons. Having diabetes or having had cancer but are in remission for 10 years can bar you. For a lot of infertile people, the cause of infertility can be used to deny. "Life choices" can get you barred too (a friend of mine had a baby in high school, and she and the father married at 17 and 18, and here we are, 14 years later, they're still married and doing well, have another child, and they were just turned down because their "life choice" of having a child in their teen years that they kept somehow cast doubt on their ability to make sound decisions, even though they both finished high school AND college). Of course you pay thousands before finding out no baby for you. So a lot of people turn to private adoption, which means finding someone willing to cut out the agency and pick you directly. While a lot of agencies let adoptive mothers pick the adoptive parents, it does no good for people who are denied and so aren't listed.

[ilovetchotchkes]

Agency adoptions in the US are notoriously difficult and perfectly fine people are turned down all the time for the stupidest of reasons. Having diabetes or having had cancer but are in remission for 10 years can bar you. For a lot of infertile people, the cause of infertility can be used to deny. "Life choices" can get you barred too (a friend of mine had a baby in high school, and she and the father married at 17 and 18, and here we are, 14 years later, they're still married and doing well, have another child, and they were just turned down because their "life choice" of having a child in their teen years that they kept somehow cast doubt on their ability to make sound decisions, even though they both finished high school AND college). Of course you pay thousands before finding out no baby for you. So a lot of people turn to private adoption, which means finding someone willing to cut out the agency and pick you directly. While a lot of agencies let adoptive mothers pick the adoptive parents, it does no good for people who are denied and so aren't listed.

That and you have to come up with $25,000.... As if you haven't already exhausted your poor tired bank account on IVF, IUI and other fertility treatments that insurance didn't cover. So basically, rich, healthy people only need apply. :( I have a friend who did years of infertility treatments and had SIX private adoptions fall through (couple of them had early miscarriages, handful of them pulled out, and I think 2 of them got back together w/ the baby's dad). #7 was the lucky one though. She was also waiting to go through an agency to get a kiddo from China. 6 years later, she was still waiting, and they were telling her "only 3 more years!". She told me the other day, now with most agencies you can't have a BMI over 30. She and her husband both are heavier, and got "grandfathered" in but I was SO furious on her behalf.

[Didi]

I had a leader of a bunch of Christian ministries tell me and my husband to write letters to all of the youth pastors in the area and ask if they have any pregnant teens in their groups who would like to give their babies up. It made me feel sick to think of doing that.

But, I have been tempted when I have seen super young pregnant girls.

Infertility SUCKS!

Our plan is to get out of debt and either have a down payment for a decent house or be renting a house big enough and adopt a sibling group out of foster care.

[polabear]

International adoption is craaaazy now. Ethiopia was pretty much the last place where if you had an overweight BMI you could adopt. If you've ever taken psych drugs, you are out of most countries too. Then, add in the marriage requirements and the age requirements... It's crazy.

If we adopt, we'll go through foster care. But that has massive pitfalls all on its own.

[Elle]

Tchotch, I'm so sorry your friend went through that. Costs can easily soar above $25k as well. That's usually the agency fees. Add on top of that you're responsible for the attorney fees for ALL parties and costs can go double that. And sometimes part of it too is paying all medical expenses for delivery, and sometimes living expenses prior to birth and prenatals. And if an adoption falls through, you get nothing back. There was a case several years back of a woman who was getting pregnant, then finding couples to adopt, taking money to live on as well s for things like electronics, having the deliveries paid for, then backing out. It was ONLY illegal because she planned ahead of time MORE THAN ONCE to do this. If it had been just once, she would have been fine. If I recall correctly, she only got probation because it was questionable if it should have been deemed illegal at all when it's just an accepted risk of adoption that you may not end up with a child after paying for so much.

Didi, I'm sorry you're going through the infertility nightmare. We were lucky to have insurance help take the cost down to about $2,000 for all the rounds of IVF we had to go through. If body parts are broken, I don't know why insurance is allowed to forget about helping us when they'll fix penises that can't get erect.

Pola, a to of foreign countries are shutting the doors on Americans adopting now. Madonna fighting tooth and nail to adopt an "orphan" whose FATHER was alive and wanted her, finally getting him to consent through emotional manipulation ("I can give her the best life that you couldn't ever hope to give, so let me have her if you love her, and I"ll have her visit regularly" - only the child has never visited), really helped turn other countries against adopting to Americans.

Even in countries that will adopt to people here, tons of them have residency requirements. You've got to be rich enough to not only afford a crap-ton in fees and international travel more than once and to get the documents from the US t bring a child back, but some countries require you to live there a month or more, some as long as six months - just that I've heard about. Some might be longer. So you've got to be able to afford to maintain your stateside home while living in another country without being able to work in that time.

This is why I can't stand people who say to just adopt. It's so much more complicated, and even impossible, for so many people unless you find someone willing to privately adopt. :(

[Cheesemaker]

Yep, "just adopt" is a surefire way to piss off someone who is having fertility issues.

[Didi]

I must say I have been guilty of the "just adopt" phrase/thought/mindset. But, mine has been in cases where these women are saying they have battled infertility for X number of years (usually like 5 - 10) and they are resigned to the fact they will never be parents. And, I guess my viewpoint is biological children isn't the only way to be a mom/dad. I mean yes if you want a healthy, white, newborn you're going to have an expensive really hard time of it, but if you are willing to adopt an older children or internationally (I know y'all are saying it's getting harder, and I don't disbelieve you. But, I know a LOT of fundies/fundy-lites who have adopted internationally several times) it's a lot easier.

Or the fact that after hundreds of thousands of dollars in IVF (Assuming insurance didnt cover it or whatever) you could have adopted a baby for a fraction of that cost.

But, I can see how/why it's hurtful to put it that way. And I try not to SAY it even when I think it.

[ilovetchotchkes]

I must say I have been guilty of the "just adopt" phrase/thought/mindset. But, mine has been in cases where these women are saying they have battled infertility for X number of years (usually like 5 - 10) and they are resigned to the fact they will never be parents. And, I guess my viewpoint is biological children isn't the only way to be a mom/dad. I mean yes if you want a healthy, white, newborn you're going to have an expensive really hard time of it, but if you are willing to adopt an older children or internationally (I know y'all are saying it's getting harder, and I don't disbelieve you. But, I know a LOT of fundies/fundy-lites who have adopted internationally several times) it's a lot easier.

Or the fact that after hundreds of thousands of dollars in IVF (Assuming insurance didnt cover it or whatever) you could have adopted a baby for a fraction of that cost.

But, I can see how/why it's hurtful to put it that way. And I try not to SAY it even when I think it.

The thing is though, you have no idea if the IVF is gonna fail. you know?

Some people don't do it because in their state, the babies can be taken back by the birth mother up to 6 months after the adoption. Its not that they don't want a child that isn't "white newborn or perfect" they're afraid that they are going to adopt a baby, love it, raise it as their own and have the birth mother change her mind.

[smores]

This is exactly why the government should stay the hell out of my uterus and worry about adoption regulations. I am so tired of hearing "adoption is the answer" when so many people are turned down, when open adoptions aren't legal and when adoption agencies can charge and arm and a leg without justification of the costs, while turning people down to adopt. Most of the people looking to adopt are in a better place financially and health-wise than the people giving up the babies, or else the birth parents wouldn't be choosing them.

[Guest Anonymous]

If you look through her blog you see that she looks to be 40-50 years old. And not in the best health. Not the first choice for a newborn, I would think.

I didn't notice the health issues, but I did see that she has a bit of an unhealthy interest in other people's children, including lengthy posts about how an exchange student lodger calls her "mom" and feels like her son, and how her niece has characteristics that make her seem like she is her own child and child of her husband.

She seems to be in a lot of pain over wanting a child. But still, I think she was wrong to post on Ruth's blog, offering to help Rachel and then in the next sentence expressing an interest in adoption.

[emmiedahl]

(I know y'all are saying it's getting harder, and I don't disbelieve you. But, I know a LOT of fundies/fundy-lites who have adopted internationally several times) it's a lot easier.

Several of the fundies followed here have adopted through some pretty shady channels. I personally would not want to adopt a child who has been stolen from loving parents, and I am sure many people feel the same way.

[Didi]

I wouldn't want to adopt a child through shady means either - and the families I know who have adopted I would assume were not doing it shadily, but it is possible.

Two families have adopted 2 children from china (one both girls 18 months and younger and the other a baby girl and a 5 year old boy with some "issues")

Two families adopted 1 baby girl (one had a cleft pallet and the other has some mild issues)

One family adopted 1 little boy from Ethiopia

One family has 5 children from Ethiopia only 1 was a baby

A lot of families at my church growing up adopted biracial babies through Bethany Christian Services, but those were domestic adoptions

I am not saying that it's not possible these families' agencies did shady things, but I am almost certain everything was above board.

[Kelya]

Maybe it's understandable, but that doesn't make it okay. I do feel for her, but that was completely inappropriate.

+1

[ilovetchotchkes]

I wouldn't want to adopt a child through shady means either - and the families I know who have adopted I would assume were not doing it shadily, but it is possible.

Two families have adopted 2 children from china (one both girls 18 months and younger and the other a baby girl and a 5 year old boy with some "issues")

Two families adopted 1 baby girl (one had a cleft pallet and the other has some mild issues)

One family adopted 1 little boy from Ethiopia

One family has 5 children from Ethiopia only 1 was a baby

A lot of families at my church growing up adopted biracial babies through Bethany Christian Services, but those were domestic adoptions

I am not saying that it's not possible these families' agencies did shady things, but I am almost certain everything was above board.

Adoption from China now, is on the INSIDE, on the fast track 5-7 YEARS. 5 years if you are willing to take a special needs kid and they don't tell you what the needs are until you get there.

[BlueChair]

The private agency I used to work for borderline encouraged this kind of nonsense. It was covered under "networking" in the preadoption training. :|

For those who are being rejected by agencies: shop around. If some psycho religious agency is denying you based on past "sins", find a secular or more liberal religious agency that doesn't. These are individual agency policies and not law. However, if you are being denied because of something on your criminal record (like that old "public indecency" charge from 20 years ago when you were 19 and got drunk at a party and got caught peeing on someone's lawn) you are going to get denied everywhere because that actually is law.

International adoption adds a whole additional layer to things because you then have to meet the requirements of the country from which you would like to adopt. And they can be as arbitrary and discriminatory as they please.

[BlueChair]

Adoption from China now, is on the INSIDE, on the fast track 5-7 YEARS. 5 years if you are willing to take a special needs kid and they don't tell you what the needs are until you get there.

It is now very possible to adopt from China inside of a year from the time you submit your paperwork if you specifically request a special needs child. The ones who are waiting 5+ years are waiting in the line for a non-special needs child.

[nolongerIFBx]

The thing is though, you have no idea if the IVF is gonna fail. you know?

Some people don't do it because in their state, the babies can be taken back by the birth mother up to 6 months after the adoption. Its not that they don't want a child that isn't "white newborn or perfect" they're afraid that they are going to adopt a baby, love it, raise it as their own and have the birth mother change her mind.

Absolutely. I know of a lady who sough to adopt rather than have her own child. She was selected by a birth mother, and she raised the child until just as the child turned 6 months his/her birth parents reclaimed him/her. Rather than put herself at risk for that happening again and again she had her own child. It wasn't an unwillingness to adopt.