Why does Gothardism - and the Duggars -get a pass?

[Sweetfellowshiphuh]

I've greatly enjoyed the conversations since discovering Free Jinger a few months ago. It has also pushed me into researching Bill Gothard and his teachings further.

 

The more I learn, the more frustrated I become.

 

Why are we giving this cult a pass? We meaning viewers of TLC, the media, society as a whole?

 

Keeping women undereducated (I would argue uneducated), robbing them of any option in adulthood other than keeping within the sect is abuse. Women being forced to blindly follow their husband in all matters - including personal grooming - is abuse. "Blanket training" babies is abuse. Being forced to submit to your husband sexually whenever it is demanded and bearing his children - no matter what physical harm it may do - is abuse. Not being able to wholly choose ones mate is abuse. Not being able tot participate in the "outside world" is abuse. Not being given personal space is abuse. Not being allowed the basic human need of autonomy is abuse.

 

We are being duped b the "aw shucks" facade of The Duggars. Jim Bob comes off as a harmless, "redneck" with a few whackadoo ideas about God. He seems harmless. He is both the perfect distraction and spokesperson for Bill Gothard. He preaches his teachings but his goofy persona makes them palatable.

 

The Florida Family Association spoke out against TLC's "All American Muslim" stating that it believed that it was "propaganda that riskily hides the Islamic agenda's clear and present danger to American liberties and traditional values." As a result of a bit of backlash, Lowe's pulled their ads.

 

All American Muslim featured educated, independent women who had lives outside the home, their religion and their family. 19 Kids and Counting cannot boast the same.

 

It is time Gothardism, and his favourite mouthpieces Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar, be exposed for their "propaganda that riskily hides the Gothard agenda's clear and present danger to American liberties and traditional values."

[socalrules]

I think most people have never even heard of Gothardism. The reasons you have stated are the reasons TLC doesn't mention Gothardism. The more people learn about it, the more they will object to it in the way most object to the FDLS.

A few reasons why the Duggars have gotten a pass:

1. They proclaim themselves to be strict Christians;

2. They are white;

3. They are an attractive family;

4. They are against all sexual activity and thoughts unless in marriage;

5. They are so far right they make tea party members look liberal;

6. They are strictly against abortion;

7. They (used to) easily sell the fantasy of the perfect home with the perfect SAHM;

8. They have a lot of kids but aren't on welfare. They create the fantasy that no matter how many kids you have, you can live an upper class lifestyle without an education by buying used and saving the difference;

9. They appear to have perfect children that never fight, love cooking, cleaning and taking care of siblings;

10. They have been careful enough to not say the things we know they believe that would be unacceptable to the general public;

11. Most people are passive watchers of television shows and don't dig to deeply into the details like we do at FJ; and

12. People want to believe the fantasy.

[O Latin]

I think the media gives them a pass because the media's goal is to make money, and they will do and say whatever best accomplishes this goal. I've never understood why people want, say, the Today Show to be exposing the dark secrets of Gothardism. Does the Today Show ever expose the dark secrets of anything? In that sense, I don't think they're giving the Duggars a pass so much as just being what their viewers want: a warm fuzzy morning show to put on in the background while they drink their coffee or get ready for work.

For myself, and I suspect a lot of other people are this way also, I watch TV as a way to escape the realities of life. When I flop down on the couch after a long day, I don't want to think or question, I just want to be passively entertained for an hour or so. Also, because of my anxiety issues, I avoid like the plague any TV program that has even a hint of "everything is horrible" about it. I don't really blame people for watching the Duggars, taking it at face value, and saying, "Oh, isn't that nice," because I think that's the standard reaction to a show like that. And I don't blame TLC, et al for for portraying them that way because that's what makes them money.

Also, in the large context of things, there aren't that many people watching the Duggars, are there? Most people in my circle are vaguely aware of the Duggars as "that family with all the kids" but don't know any more about them than that, and don't have an opinion on them one way or the other. So I don't blame the media for not digging further into something that comparatively few people are even aware of.

[FlorenceHamilton]

Most people don't get it. I have mentioned it to many of my friends.The vast majority of my friends are left-leaning and personally nothing like the Duggars or any other ATI family. A few of them have seen the AC interviews with Michael Pearl. When I tell them that the Duggars follow the teachings of Michael Pearl, they tell me that my "proof" is speculative and that I have a weird obsession. They think that the Duggars are cute and charming...like Amish people.

People would rather just see what they are doing as "quirky".

That and the white Christian, attractive sexual purity thing that Americans are so partial to being all warm and fuzzy about.

[pomology]

I've greatly enjoyed the conversations since discovering Free Jinger a few months ago. It has also pushed me into researching Bill Gothard and his teachings further.

The more I learn, the more frustrated I become.

Why are we giving this cult a pass? We meaning viewers of TLC, the media, society as a whole?

Keeping women undereducated (I would argue uneducated), robbing them of any option in adulthood other than keeping within the sect is abuse. Women being forced to blindly follow their husband in all matters - including personal grooming - is abuse. "Blanket training" babies is abuse. Being forced to submit to your husband sexually whenever it is demanded and bearing his children - no matter what physical harm it may do - is abuse. Not being able to wholly choose ones mate is abuse. Not being able tot participate in the "outside world" is abuse. Not being given personal space is abuse. Not being allowed the basic human need of autonomy is abuse.

We are being duped b the "aw shucks" facade of The Duggars. Jim Bob comes off as a harmless, "redneck" with a few whackadoo ideas about God. He seems harmless. He is both the perfect distraction and spokesperson for Bill Gothard. He preaches his teachings but his goofy persona makes them palatable.

The Florida Family Association spoke out against TLC's "All American Muslim" stating that it believed that it was "propaganda that riskily hides the Islamic agenda's clear and present danger to American liberties and traditional values." As a result of a bit of backlash, Lowe's pulled their ads.

All American Muslim featured educated, independent women who had lives outside the home, their religion and their family. 19 Kids and Counting cannot boast the same.

It is time Gothardism, and his favourite mouthpieces Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar, be exposed for their "propaganda that riskily hides the Gothard agenda's clear and present danger to American liberties and traditional values."

It gets a pass because most people don't bother to look below the surface. Why not? Because they lack curiosity, most likely. The surface is big, loving Christian family, which to most people in our society is not automatically something suspicious, even if below the surface it is a nightmare. For All American Muslim, the surface is Islam, which, sadly, to many Americans is automatically something suspicious, even if below the surface people are smart and educated and not even remotely threatening.

[Anxious Girl]

Because we're having a culture war against the ebil Muslims, doncha know? Apparantly Christian cults like ATI/QF/VF are less radical than Islamic cults because they don't show their true colors in public, and they didn't start terrorism.

[lilwriter85]

O Latin brings up a good point, there really aren't a lot of people watching the Duggars. The ratings for the last season were 1 to 1.5 million viewers. Those ratings aren't bad for a cable show, but they are great either. TLC knows this and they probably pissed about it at times. A lot of people in general don't know or have ever heard of Gothard. TLC has done a good job for the most part about hiding the name Gothard and ATI on the show. I think it very possible that Sean instructs the family not to say anything about Gothard or ATI when cameras are rolling. The Duggars have gone to ATI events which have been filmed but they are spun as something different.

TLC presents the Duggars as a large wholesome loving family and some of the viewers have eaten up that bull shit and that is part of the reason they get a free pass. The Today Show is never going to ask about the connections to Gothardism. People who have left ATI movements have been vocal to smaller extent. Josh McDonald who is Anna's BIL has a blog about recovering from ATI and there is another guy who has site/blog about the dark side of ATI. I give Josh and the other guy credit for speaking out against Gothard. The only way for more people to find about Gothardism and the dark side is if someone publishes a book with a major publisher about it or if someone goes on Dateline, 20/20 or if someone produces an independent documentary on it.

[Swamptribe]

May go off on a slight tangent here, please forgive.

In the US, as in many nations, freedom is a highly regarded value. Sadly, it is often carried too far. Look at the debate over the Catholic church having to cover birth control for women (there isn't effective male birth control, damn shame too). I'd also add the recent supreme court ruling concerning the teacher who was fired for becoming ill by a private religious school, but honestly don't know enough about the details of the case. Too many feel that religion, or at least the Christian religion, is not beholden to secular law.

They also ignore the fact that there are religious courts for Jews in this nation (can't remember the name, sigh, you know, issuing a get for divorce, that sort of thing). Yet, these same people brag that the US was founded on Christian principles. It's ok if they do it, and it's THEIR laws, but not for anybody else. Problem is, if one religious group starts to have the power to dictate to everyone else, then they are not going to be fairly able to represent all. History, recent history, is full of examples of a religion in political power using that power for abuse.

Gothardism gets a pass because there is a huge taboo, at least in the US, against saying anything negative about Christianity and it's many branches. If one writes or speaks out against them, then they are seen as attacking Christianity. Christianity, in it's many forms, is a sacred cow in our society.

There is also the idea that to speak out against some aspect of Christianity is to speak out against god.

It's the same basic mentality that leads so many Muslims (not all) to feel that anyone making a negative comment against Islam or Mohammed has committed blasphemy. Many Christians have a phobia about Sharia law.

I guess it's a little different for me, as one of the most hated minorities in the world, I see hypocrisy from all religious sides. This is why laws should not be based on, nor favor, one religious group over another. They should all be secular and should apply to all equally.

edited because I repeated stuff...

[AudreyE]

I think the media gives them a pass because the media's goal is to make money, and they will do and say whatever best accomplishes this goal. I've never understood why people want, say, the Today Show to be exposing the dark secrets of Gothardism. Does the Today Show ever expose the dark secrets of anything? In that sense, I don't think they're giving the Duggars a pass so much as just being what their viewers want: a warm fuzzy morning show to put on in the background while they drink their coffee or get ready for work.

This.

Also, I think some conservative Christians feel they have more in common with extreme fundies than with ebil liberals (no matter how moderate). They're willing to sweep the ugly under that carpet in order to achieve a majority.

[AudreyE]

Oh! - I totally agree about people being being afraid to criticize Christians of any ilk, even when they disagree. Good point.

[debrand]

I think that both swamptribe and O latin make excellent points.

On one hand, the Duggars are a strange, but outwardly pleasant family made up of attractive people. Viewers find them interesting but really don't want to delve too deeply beneath the surface.

On the other hand, the American media appears terrified of the perception that they are against religion. In the past, religious groups have organized boycotts and generated public outrage when they've felt persecuted. Alienating a large portion of your viewership(In America, Christians are the majority) would be financial suicide.

[freejoytoo]

Because the viewers are racist and biased towards Christianity, so the fact that this family are white and god-loving makes them wonderful citizens. It would be a different story if they were black and/or not Christian.

[Rosa]

Also, I think some conservative Christians feel they have more in common with extreme fundies than with ebil liberals (no matter how moderate). They're willing to sweep the ugly under that carpet in order to achieve a majority.

My money's on this one. I know lots and lots of Christians who don't think education is a big deal, are in favor of spanking (and defend childbeating as "traditional discipline" even if they don't do it themselves), talk the "headship" talk, think homeschooling is admirable, want their kids to be modest (though not extreme) and virginal (at least til their late teens), etc. ATI's just one or two steps away from regular mainstream Christianity. The kind of people who think Santorum is batshit nuts think ATI sounds fine as long as it isn't coercive, and don't see the coercion going on.

[Katiedarling]

I question the viewership of the Duggars as whole. I wonder what percentage of viewers actually like and admire the Duggars versus what percentage just judge them and watch out of boredom. I say this purely based on anecdotal evidence, but in my personal experience I've met about a 50/50 split of folks who truly think they seem like a "nice, well-behaved" family versus people who think they are utterly insane and scary. In my experience both groups watch the show and in turn watch the advertising, in which case TLC doesn't care if viewers like them or not as long as they watch. The majority of my non-Evangelical friends think they are scary and dangerous. My upper income/Ph'd/grad. degree/etc Evangelical friends think they are well-meaning, but misguided and "who the heck would ever want to live like them?" And then a third group of more fundie type friends admire aspects of their lives, definitely don't view them as crazy, and wouldn't know who Bill Gothard is if he invited them over to his mother's house for tea. They have all tuned into 19KAC at various points over multiple seasons. And yes I'm weird and tend to categorize my friends by demographics.

All this to say that I don't think the majority of viewers take the time to think critically about the Duggars values in a nuanced way. I think they mostly tune in to tune out so to speak.

Edited because I forgot to answer the question. ;)

[AudreyE]

My money's on this one. I know lots and lots of Christians who don't think education is a big deal, are in favor of spanking (and defend childbeating as "traditional discipline" even if they don't do it themselves), talk the "headship" talk, think homeschooling is admirable, want their kids to be modest (though not extreme) and virginal (at least til their late teens), etc. ATI's just one or two steps away from regular mainstream Christianity. The kind of people who think Santorum is batshit nuts think ATI sounds fine as long as it isn't coercive, and don't see the coercion going on.

That's a good point about the coercion, since we're always hearing about how the J'slaves aren't coerced. People don't see it.

[Soulhuntress]

Because most people do not care enough about the show (call it harmless entertainment) to do some studying? They see it as just another TLC scripted show (sort of like Little People Big World) and they don't look closer.

[ChunkyBarbie]

If TLC grew some cajones and started to expose the truth of the Duggars, Gothardism, ATI, courtship and the misogyny of their beliefs that would be a season of 19 and Counting that I would watch. Sadly, I am in the minority. People love the Duggars and want to believe the white washed fairy tale. People don't want to think or be challenged. Just look at popular tv, most of it is insipid drivel.

[Mais Pourquoi]

If TLC grew some cajones and started to expose the truth of the Duggars, Gothardism, ATI, courtship and the misogyny of their beliefs that would be a season of 19 and Counting that I would watch. Sadly, I am in the minority. People love the Duggars and want to believe the white washed fairy tale. People don't want to think or be challenged. Just look at popular tv, most of it is insipid drivel.

Stay tuned for the remaining episodes of 19KAC. TLC knows the show's days are numbered and has been slipping more clues into recent episodes that point to how extreme some of the Duggars' views are (see: Michelle's talking points sheet that she used at the women's meeting in last week's episode). They even drop hints in older episodes, and I think it's the most obvious during Q&A segments where Sean (or whoever) asks things like "Why don't you allow dancing?"

The Duggars HAVE always said that they didn't want their "conservative values" to be censored on the show.

[CC3]

I think they have been given a pass because until the last year or two because no one really paid too much attention to what was going on with them other than they are a little crazy to have all those kids. I only looked into it more because I am friends with an IFB family and also had a neighbor who was into the quiverfull movement. Now that the four oldest Duggar girls are grown women, it really seems weird watching them do their parents' housework. Every year that goes by puts more of a spotlight on the cult behavior. TLC will be pulling the plug on the Duggars. I'm curious to see how TLC will try to whitewash the Bates. Another thought is their "Christian" values seem so sincere and All-American. Too bad it isn't really Christianity.

[blondezilla]

May go off on a slight tangent here, please forgive.

In the US, as in many nations, freedom is a highly regarded value. Sadly, it is often carried too far. Look at the debate over the Catholic church having to cover birth control for women (there isn't effective male birth control, damn shame too). I'd also add the recent supreme court ruling concerning the teacher who was fired for becoming ill by a private religious school, but honestly don't know enough about the details of the case. Too many feel that religion, or at least the Christian religion, is not beholden to secular law.

They also ignore the fact that there are religious courts for Jews in this nation (can't remember the name, sigh, you know, issuing a get for divorce, that sort of thing). Yet, these same people brag that the US was founded on Christian principles. It's ok if they do it, and it's THEIR laws, but not for anybody else. Problem is, if one religious group starts to have the power to dictate to everyone else, then they are not going to be fairly able to represent all. History, recent history, is full of examples of a religion in political power using that power for abuse.

Gothardism gets a pass because there is a huge taboo, at least in the US, against saying anything negative about Christianity and it's many branches. If one writes or speaks out against them, then they are seen as attacking Christianity. Christianity, in it's many forms, is a sacred cow in our society.

There is also the idea that to speak out against some aspect of Christianity is to speak out against god.

It's the same basic mentality that leads so many Muslims (not all) to feel that anyone making a negative comment against Islam or Mohammed has committed blasphemy. Many Christians have a phobia about Sharia law.

I guess it's a little different for me, as one of the most hated minorities in the world, I see hypocrisy from all religious sides. This is why laws should not be based on, nor favor, one religious group over another. They should all be secular and should apply to all equally.

edited because I repeated stuff...

This.

[Dinorah]

I'm in Europe and I've never seen the programmes, just heard of them so maybe I would see the appeal if I watched them. But I never got what was the point about making a tv programme about a situation that was normal until relatively recently, just because people had no BC and there were high child mortality rate, and I never saw what was supposedly so cute about a family with way too many kids.

[Mama Mia]

I don't think most people know about Gothard or any of that .. When I first saw the show, on the specials, I was struck by how robotic they were and they definitely seemed creepy in those first shows.

As the show went on they seemed much more 'normal'.. the clothes weren't as strange, the kids weren't as stepfordish.. they just weren't as weird as time went by - they were still like some very odd off-shoot with the courting etc.. but not as scary fundie. They seemed nice - like valuim in the water supply nice.

As time went by it started to seem odder and odder that the daughters weren't getting married.. and that is when I discovered this site, before that I just watched for mindless entertainment like any other "oddity" reality show.

I think TLC did a good job of making them appear to be just "normal" enough to be relatable, but showing enough of their religious extremism to make them a novelty ( well that and the bazillion children )

[Guest Anonymous]

I think it's all in the way TLC portrays them. I'm sure TLC fully knows what the Duggars are about, but they're also smart enough to know that if they showed what really goes on, they lose money. Plus, TLC lately has turned into channel that wants to highlight things mainstream America finds creepy.

[Tempehst]

Because people want what they don't necessarily have in their own lives. The Duggars are presented as an ideal in a lot of ways. They have THE perfect marriage, THE perfect kids (and WAY more than most other people), THE best money management, THE best way of raising their kids (homeschooling--notice how they don't go into too much detail about what that entails in their house--no TV, etc) and all of it is grounded in THE strongest and bestest religious beliefs.

Most people don't have this sort of thing because they live in Real Life. So the Duggars are presented as perfect and all the flaws are basically whitewashed away and if you watch them uncritically enough, it's really really appealing to see how they live and how they cooperate and anything that is too unappealing is kept out of sight to where you have to do some digging to find it. Since most TV viewers don't dig....well, there we have it!

Though with their low ratings I really have to wonder how many people watch the Duggars because they admire them and are taken in by how they're presented vs. how many people watch them because they like the freak show and mock them.

[O Latin]

Because people want what they don't necessarily have in their own lives. The Duggars are presented as an ideal in a lot of ways. They have THE perfect marriage, THE perfect kids (and WAY more than most other people), THE best money management, THE best way of raising their kids (homeschooling--notice how they don't go into too much detail about what that entails in their house--no TV, etc) and all of it is grounded in THE strongest and bestest religious beliefs.

Most people don't have this sort of thing because they live in Real Life. So the Duggars are presented as perfect and all the flaws are basically whitewashed away and if you watch them uncritically enough, it's really really appealing to see how they live and how they cooperate and anything that is too unappealing is kept out of sight to where you have to do some digging to find it. Since most TV viewers don't dig....well, there we have it!

Though with their low ratings I really have to wonder how many people watch the Duggars because they admire them and are taken in by how they're presented vs. how many people watch them because they like the freak show and mock them.

I think this is a big part of it. A lot of reality TV, I think, is meant to make the viewer feel superior to the idiots on the show, but with the Duggars (and a few others) I think it's meant to allow the viewer to live vicariously through this "perfect" family. Actually, that's what attracted me to the Duggars in the first place. My life was absolutely falling apart at the seams, and watching the Duggars, I could sigh and say, "Oh, wouldn't that be nice." Their life seemed so simple and unworried and happy. I was smart enough to know that "reality" TV is usually anything but, but I just ignored that fact because it got in the way of my nice, perfect fantasy. I knew I was never going to have the Duggars' life, but I wanted to pretend, just for a minute, that things could really be that perfect. It's like the grown-up version of playing make believe.