Jump to content
IGNORED

The "Weird Socialization" of public schools


TouchMeFall21

Recommended Posts

Ok, back on topic. Santorum doesn't like public schools because he would rather see children in Catholic indoctrination mills, or at least see them homeschooled so it's just that much harder for mothers to have a life outside of their children. I used to have a coworker who was like that, and he didn't like the idea of tax money paying for education, largely because you're not allowed to force Catholic ideology onto students in public schools.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 137
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Ok, back on topic. Santorum doesn't like public schools because he would rather see children in Catholic indoctrination mills, or at least see them homeschooled so it's just that much harder for mothers to have a life outside of their children. I used to have a coworker who was like that, and he didn't like the idea of tax money paying for education, largely because you're not allowed to force Catholic ideology onto students in public schools.

It seems like every one of his positions forces women back into the home full-time. He is so transparently anti-woman and doesn't even really make any attempt to hide it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems like every one of his positions forces women back into the home full-time. He is so transparently anti-woman and doesn't even really make any attempt to hide it.

This. With the assistance of the government (apparently only evil when run by liberals).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a lot of assumptions about 'top' universities and American students. I didn't go to a top public high school. Mine was okay, but 80% kids from underprivileged backgrounds. And guess what? Me and many others of my classmates have done well in good universities. I attended a top/private school for undergrad and a lesser known public university for graduate school. That's when I realized that higher tuition or ratings don't necessarily mean better. Both of them have offered me excellent professors and equally valid degrees.

The overcrowding of the market has a lot more to do with all the unemployed or underemployed college graduates than any kind of inferiority in their degrees. Also, it could be argued that the extreme emphasis on college might have pushed some people to get degrees without a clear focus, when they might have been better served by a technical or associates degree that allowed them to do other jobs (some people might want to be plumbers, or hair stylists, and that should be okay and not stigmatized).

That said, public education is just that: education for the public. Not everyone can afford private schools (which are NOT always better, by the way), or homeschooling. It allows the lower and middle classes to send their kids to get a better education than they would get from home, since not every parent has the right educational background to teach or the ability to teach. It may not provide 100% success rate, or a million scientists in every graduating class, but it does provide a basic level of education that might allow the general public to eventually rise a little bit higher in circumstance. At least that's what it did for my grandparents and my parents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wolfie, you don't actually think that American high schools are graduating a high number of graduates with educations that match the 12th grade?

No, I am saying that the stats from the OTHER COUNTRIES are not what they appear to be.

And I think that PARENTS have much more of an influence on the acheviement of a normal student than ANY TEACHER OR ADMINISTRATOR could have. How the hell are we supposed to reach kids when they don't know what kind of home they're going to that day? How the hell are we supposed to teach students whose parents just tell them, "oh they're just a teacher, ignore them?" How the hell are we supposed to teach a student when they lie to their parents and the parents call the school, or write a nasty note attacking the teacher because "my child never lies?" Shouldn't the parents be noticing if their kids are struggling?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my college humanities class my teacher wanted us to fill out chapter review questions in complete sentences so she could meet the writing requirement without assigning a ton of essays. When we turned in our questions and she looked over them,only I and one other student had written in complete sentences. This has no bearing on public, private or home school because I have no idea where my classmates went to high school but it does say something about American schooling in general when only 2 in 27 college students know how to write a complete sentence. :o

This does not state if they know how to write a complete sentence or not. For all we know the students could have been lazy. I have given assignments, gone over all the parts many times, worked it over with students, then when it came time to do the assignment, half the kids did it half assed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've got a pet peeve about ending sentences with prepositions (though will do so to not sound uppity).

And I've got a pet peeve about people who hold to prescriptivist grammar bullshit and think that it makes them oh-so-intelligent and intellectual.

Elle, you clearly have a skewed view of American education, which causes you to look down on it, and it may be the reality for some, but what you are describing is not, in fact, the reality for millions of Americans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This. With the assistance of the government (apparently only evil when run by liberals).

If he is elected president (and that's a big IF), he would probably water down his view from the woman staying at home to one parent staying home, or so we hope. I just want him to know that in my household, I have the potential to earn more money, which is why my husband and I have decided that I will return to the workforce as soon as I get an offer, and he will be the one staying home. What would Santorum say?

Santorum hides behind the veil of true family values (whatever that is) and gets away with his anti-woman stance. He probably believes he really is doing women a favor by "letting" us get back to our natural roots of motherhood and wifery. But as we all know, women have worked throughout recorded history and will continue to. He forgets that forcing women (or one parent) back into the home will pretty much shut the US down and make the US vulnerable in ways it has never been.

Plus, while I am educated, I have no intentions of homeschooling our daughter. There are professionals for that: teachers. I look forward to putting her in "weird socialization" mainly because I want her to be around other kids her age and to learn to be independent, instead of just around me all the time. I'm not knocking home schooling in any way; in fact, one of my fundie-light friends homeschools her daughter, but she also has her daughter participate in the local school's aftercare programs, so even my fundie-light friend particpates in 'weird socialization'. LOL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, I am saying that the stats from the OTHER COUNTRIES are not what they appear to be.

And I think that PARENTS have much more of an influence on the acheviement of a normal student than ANY TEACHER OR ADMINISTRATOR could have. How the hell are we supposed to reach kids when they don't know what kind of home they're going to that day? How the hell are we supposed to teach students whose parents just tell them, "oh they're just a teacher, ignore them?" How the hell are we supposed to teach a student when they lie to their parents and the parents call the school, or write a nasty note attacking the teacher because "my child never lies?" Shouldn't the parents be noticing if their kids are struggling?

Parents need to hold themselves ultimately responsible for their children's education. My children are public-school educated and proud of it, but I always knew it was my responsibility to see that they got an education. That's true no matter how you choose to educate your children.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our TOP universities are the ones attracting foreign students, not just any college

Not true. Even most public junior colleges have staff designated to work with the international students. My grandma spent 20 years in one of those positions. The college of 500 students where I got my undergrad had international students. They are in most colleges in the US. And there currently is a problem with students from China who have falsified their credentials to get into US colleges.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, in support of the testing issues in public schools - many special ed students, especially self contained special ed, those with severe cognitive disabilities don't actually get a diploma - they get a "certificate of attendance." They still are often subjected to the same testing as other students.

As I've heard more than one special ed teacher say, "If they can hold a pencil, they have to take the tests."

And don't even get me started on "test based pay" for teachers. (not to mention it never could work, there are teachers in subjects and grades where students are not tested anyway.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are lucky to have had enough of a basic education to get into a molecular biology program. Sadly many American students can't even get into basis 101 classes without a year or two of remedial classes. Most universities have a higher standard than most colleges, but this doesn't mean all of them are wonderful. Do you really think University of Phoenix is wonderful?

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Oregon-su ... 28993.html

Oh, but our universities are all so wonderful just because some are! Some are, therefore all of them are! Even though a state has a lawsuit against one of the nation's largest universities for not only misusing student aid funds, but for a lack of quality that is actually sending students backward. Lawsuits have been going on against UoP for years, and they don't have a great record for winning. But hey, American universities are the best in the world, so UoP must actually be really good and everyone needs to stop picking on them!

State schools aren't for profit and gain nothing by making unnecessary cuts. Ivy League universities have a reputation for accepting only the top of the top. But these aren't the only universities out there. For-profit universities, Ivy League aside, have little incentive to provide quality education, and have even been sued for graduating nursing students without all the clinicals and such they need to actually qualify for nursing licenses. A week as a day car provider doesn't meet the clinicals for nursing degrees in any states. But hey, universities are wonderful, so those women suing need to shut up and praise the high quality of their education.

http://business.time.com/2011/05/20/why ... tter-jobs/

http://stateimpact.npr.org/ohio/2011/12 ... -good-job/

Yeah, a lot of grads can't find good jobs.

http://www.heldrich.rutgers.edu/sites/d ... y_2011.pdf

Half are still looking for a job a year later, and a lot aren't finding jobs in their degree field.

You seem to have a HUGE number of misconceptions, so let me break this shit down for you.

A) Ivy League schools are not for-profit schools. They are private schools. There's a big difference.

B) For-profit schools are shitty, exploitative outfits, not centers of education, and not a legitimate standard by which to judge American higher education, because they aren't a legitimate part of American higher education.

C) Ivy League schools are not the end all and be all of good education in the United States. There are hundreds of other schools which provide stellar educations. I have friends who go to Ivy League schools and sometimes I'm jealous that their schools have a shit ton of money, bu I know that at my small liberal arts school, I am getting just as good an education as they are, if not better.

D) See B. Because it needs to be said again. You are seriously judging American higher education by for-profit schools? Are you fucking kidding me?

In summation, kindly shut the fuck up, because you have no idea what you are talking about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh geez, and there's this newer homeschooling thing called unschooling (not schooling at all).

That's not what unschoolng is. I'm not entirely certain I approve of unschooling, but it is not not schooling at all. Please try and learn about things before you criticize them. You are utterly tiresome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In summation, kindly shut the fuck up, because you have no idea what you are talking about.

I saved myself a lot of time and effort by realizing this back when she posted "For all the talk of the economy being great..." in another thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's not what unschoolng is. I'm not entirely certain I approve of unschooling, but it is not not schooling at all. Please try and learn about things before you criticize them. You are utterly tiresome.

Exactly. I greatly dislike unschooling but at least I have the decency to know what the hell it is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Parents need to hold themselves ultimately responsible for their children's education. My children are public-school educated and proud of it, but I always knew it was my responsibility to see that they got an education. That's true no matter how you choose to educate your children.

So much truth, Austin. I may have gone to a private school and then to an amazing public school, but the real reason that I excelled academically has much more to do with the fact that my parents taught me to love learning and value education and advocated for me and supported me when I had issues with ADD and anxiety amongst other things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This does not state if they know how to write a complete sentence or not. For all we know the students could have been lazy. I have given assignments, gone over all the parts many times, worked it over with students, then when it came time to do the assignment, half the kids did it half assed.

That is also part of the problem. I call It participation ribbon mentally. The thinking that everyone is a winner just because they showed up and no one loses. In life there is a winner and a loser and we are doing this generation a disservice by not letting them experience losing. If the kids in my class were lazy it was most likely because they know either way they will get the credit and that is what angers me the most.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's amazing that so many kids turn out to be fairly normal, considering the weird socialization they get in public schools. In a home school, by contrast, children interact in a rich and complex way with adults and children of other ages all the time.

Getting back to the original post...WHY do they object so strenuously to classes grouped by age? It makes no sense to me. Children are around people of all ages in other settings so it is not as if a six or a ten year old is only influenced by other six and ten year olds. When I watch the Bates family visit the Duggar family the kids separate into little groups. Joseph Duggar does not hang out with Warden and Isaiah Bates. Jana does not seek out Katie Bates so she can exchange cooking and childcare tips with her. The older girls hang out together and the younger boys all get together and so on. I notice the same thing happening in the fundie blogs I read. But when kids attend an actual school and are separated into classes by age, it is weird socialization. I know there is a Bible verse about being taught in families or learning together or something along those lines, but playing soccer on a team with one's peers or being in a 5th grade class does not preclude that happening.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Getting back to the original post...WHY do they object so strenuously to classes grouped by age? It makes no sense to me. Children are around people of all ages in other settings so it is not as if a six or a ten year old is only influenced by other six and ten year olds. When I watch the Bates family visit the Duggar family the kids separate into little groups. Joseph Duggar does not hang out with Warden and Isaiah Bates. Jana does not seek out Katie Bates so she can exchange cooking and childcare tips with her. The older girls hang out together and the younger boys all get together and so on. I notice the same thing happening in the fundie blogs I read. But when kids attend an actual school and are separated into classes by age, it is weird socialization. I know there is a Bible verse about being taught in families or learning together or something along those lines, but playing soccer on a team with one's peers or being in a 5th grade class does not preclude that happening.

So, they don't allow children of different ages play with each other?

My mom's village school was a one room school and there were kids of different ages and they played with each other at recess.

I'm 23 and I'm friends with a 14 year-old.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, they don't allow children of different ages play with each other?

My mom's village school was a one room school and there were kids of different ages and they played with each other at recess.

I'm 23 and I'm friends with a 14 year-old.

Well, schools are different, but my children always played with children of other ages when they were in school at recess, except for kindergarten because they went outside mid-morning as they only went to school in the morning back then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the playground situation varies from school to school. At our school, the 1st and 2nd graders play on one side and the 3rd and 4th on another. I don't know about the kindergarteners, although I will certainly know next year!

My kids play outside with friends at home, so they get lots of time with children of other ages.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm 23 and I'm friends with a 14 year-old.

I'm not going to lie, I find this kind of weird.

Mostly because 99% of the teenagers I meet are morons (not their fault, that's what being a teenager is all about) and I can't imagine having anything to talk about with one.

ETA: I was in several classes that had two grade in it (2/3 & 3/4 grade) so I had plenty of exposure to kids of different ages.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not going to lie, I find this kind of weird.

Mostly because 99% of the teenagers I meet are morons (not their fault, that's what being a teenager is all about) and I can't imagine having anything to talk about with one.

Meh, I've met some great ones, and some idiotic ones. Not all react to hormones in the same way. I'm actually still friends with some who I met as teens when I was in my early 20's, even though we're all adults now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Santorum hides behind the veil of true family values (whatever that is) and gets away with his anti-woman stance. He probably believes he really is doing women a favor by "letting" us get back to our natural roots of motherhood and wifery. But as we all know, women have worked throughout recorded history and will continue to. He forgets that forcing women (or one parent) back into the home will pretty much shut the US down and make the US vulnerable in ways it has never been.

Plus, while I am educated, I have no intentions of homeschooling our daughter. There are professionals for that: teachers.

Plus, there's also the issue that the people I've met who are teaching primary school are doing so because they ENJOY it. I plan to supplement the MV's schooling (especially on history/reading) as she get sold enough for that to be appropriate, but no one in their right mind wants me teaching any math. I am not math-inclined, don't enjoy it, and I want my children to learn from someone who really grasps math and why it works, not me. I enjoy reading to/with my daughter, but I wouldn't enjoy the somewhat-tedious process of teaching the reading basics.

But what do I know? I'm just a divorced working mom (in the military, which he's also against because women are/make men so emotional) raising my daughter to not let anyone tell her she can't do something just because she's a girl.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.