Problem with halal?

[JesusFightClub]

I am a big fan of kebabs. Lovely, lovely kebabs *licking lips*. I don't eat sweet food so it's my big food treat.

 

I get a large shish kebab from a kebab shop I like. It's halal. "Halal" is the only word I can read in Arabic.

 

What I do not get is the fundie rage! at the thought they might be eating halal meat. Kidist has a rant about this too. I honestly wonder what difference it makes to anything at all.

 

If their concern was bad training or poor animal welfare practices, that is one thing. But to worry about whatever blessing is said over the act seems completely bizarre.

 

Abattoir workers swear. A lot. They aren't exactly pronouncing Godly blessings over their "charges". Indeed, if one wants to keep oneself "unspotted from the world", do not eat meat.

 

It also says in the Bible not to worry about food sacrificed to idols or "unclean meats". So why don't fundies get that according to their own book, eating halal is OK?

[shesinsane]

Perhaps they read some misleading internet meme about halal.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/halal.asp

There's even more misinformation floating about than in the Snopes article. For example:

Eating Halal meat is not the biggest insult. What pisses me off is that Muslim companies and employees are getting the butcher and meat distribution money and jobs. In this awful economy when you eat Halal meat this means some Christian meat workers lost their jobs to make way for this “wonderful†Halal meat

OH No, in order to be HALAL, it IS sacrificed to the false god, Allah, it LITERALLY IS meat sacrificed to idols!

Just google halal and Costco and you'll find tons of misinformation that the fundies are likely accepting as fact.

[fundiefan]

The word halal is, as you said, Arabic. It has meaning, applied by the bad Muslims. Anything the bad Muslims do is anti-Christian, dontcha' know.

Muslims breathe and go to the bathroom and walk and talk, but that's ok with Christians. Muslims have ways of preparing/slaughtering and classifying food and *gasp* say prayers with that and that is the Big Bad Stuff to the proper Christian especially blessed by their god and their chosen bible rules (and arrogance-founded rules).

In short, it is associated with Muslims, therefore, everything about it is evil and bad.

[Wolfie]

I've witnessed a Halal slaughter before (I was picking up a lamb I'd bought and had dropped off at a butcher.) It was fast, and not an issue for me. (basically the family picked out two goats from a pen of goats and lambs that the butcher had, they came in, held one so it couldn't see the other one, and in turn faced one toward Mecca, prayed over it, slit it's throat and that was it. Once you slit an animal's throat it is a fast death. It happened within a few minutes.)

[lovefromgirl]

See, this is why I like not having any one religion. I get to eat meat blessed by anyone! :) I do appreciate that halal slaughter is humane and am actually more inclined to buy halal meat now.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Aren't the rules of Halal almost the same as kosher rules, anyway?

[figuring it out]

I prefer to buy halal and kosher meats, though I am neither a Jew nor a Muslima. It is because I appreciate that the kill is quick and clean and done with an attitude of gratefulness and recognition that a living thing has died to sustain life. Unfortunately, I just moved to a town without hala or kosher shops, but since this is a small community, there is a local butcher shop that buys local grass fed or free range animals and does their own slaughtering in as humane a way as is possible. Anyone who has ever been to a feed lot or seen footage of how messy and cruel large scale slaughterhouse operations are, would have a hard time justifying that Jesus would approve.

[doggie]

so prayers stick to meat and you end up eating them? or do you convert to Muslim when you eat them? Stupid ignorant Christianity is all it is.

[Arete]

Kosher and halal slaughter practices are the same. Only the prayers each type's ritual slaughterer says are different.

[Rosa]

IT'S THE SAME GOD.

I mean, they don't complain about kosher stuff, do they? It's not different. They're all talking about "the God of Abraham" - if the problem is the lack of Jesus' blood or something, they shouldn't eat any kosher food ever either.

[HijabiLady]

IT'S THE SAME GOD.

I mean, they don't complain about kosher stuff, do they? It's not different. They're all talking about "the God of Abraham" - if the problem is the lack of Jesus' blood or something, they shouldn't eat any kosher food ever either.

Exactly! I stuns me when fundie Christians call Allah a "false god." They don't realize that Allah is simply "god" in Arabic. The Christians who are Arabs say Allah! We believe in the same god as Jews and Christians, we just don't believe Jesus was God or the son of God. We believe he was a prophet.

It also surprises me that there is absolutely no problem with them eating Kosher food yet the Jews believe Jesus was a nice guy, a decent rabbi but not God or a son of God. But since they (Christians) retitled the Torah and Tanach as the "Old Testament" they basically decided that Kosher was...Christian-lite food?

[liltwinstar]

I think people get whacky about halal food is just because of anti-Muslim bias, not any other reason. It's just another thing to pick on.

Also, I've found that people can be strange about food. I eat some "exotic" stuff according to my co-workers, because I actually cook and I eat things like lamb and lentils. (I know!!! Scary scary lamb!!! Terrifying lentils!) I brought a wonderful lunch of moussaka to work once, which was lovingly made by my mother, and my co workers reacted as if I'd brought, I don't know, fish eyeballs or something. Anyway, point being, people can react very strongly to food they consider "weird."

I have no problem with halal meat, although I don't think I've ever bought any (just never needed to). I love having a halal market around, though, because then I can get delicious tea and different grinds of bulghar wheat and trays of baklava and other delicious, delicious food.

[Wolfie]

But since they (Christians) retitled the Torah and Tanach as the "Old Testament" they basically decided that Kosher was...Christian-lite food?

They don't keep Kosher because Jesus said it was optional.

But yeah, I don't understand why some Christians don't think that Allah is the same God, and get mad at Halal food. I don't really care. But then there are people who are extremely predjudiced against Muslims. It makes me sick to think that they can just stereotype an entire religion because of some of the people. (but then I've seen some people here who seem to think that all people who are believing Christians are like the ones we discuss- we discuss extremists. There are extremists in every faith system, but the majority are not exremists.)

[Wolfie]

Also, I've found that people can be strange about food. I eat some "exotic" stuff according to my co-workers, because I actually cook and I eat things like lamb and lentils. (I know!!! Scary scary lamb!!! Terrifying lentils!) I brought a wonderful lunch of moussaka to work once, which was lovingly made by my mother, and my co workers reacted as if I'd brought, I don't know, fish eyeballs or something. Anyway, point being, people can react very strongly to food they consider "weird."

I like to eat things like goat (when I can get it from friends) and rabbit (when I actually manage to raise and butcher some of my own). People think it's gross that I sometimes raise my own meat (rabbit and chickens). Um, why is it any different than buying it at the store, other than I know what has happened and all that the animals have eaten?

[Beeks]

Kosher and halal slaughter practices are the same. Only the prayers each type's ritual slaughterer says are different.

This is waaaaay too simplistic and just not true.

I thought the fundie objection to halal meats was simply that it was supporting Muslims, aka the ebil terrorists.

[CustardTart]

My father is Muslim-lite (no pork), and whenever he sneezed, his idiot friends would say "Your God bless you." or "Allah bless you."

Allah means God in Arabic! It's like using Dios instead of God when speaking to a Spaniard. It has to do with their foreign language, NOT another God. That always annoyed me.

[Arete]

How is it way too simplistic and just not true? I've had both Jews and Muslims confirm this. When my Muslim friends moved to areas that did not have easy access to halal markets, they bought kosher meat if it was available. Are you talking about the US kosher practice of not using the back part of a carcass? That is a matter of removing certain nerves that not all kosher slaughterers are trained to do.

[Sola]

I really don't get the amount of anti-muslim sentiment in the USA. Obviously part of is ignorance, people really don't know much about Islam which is why I would like to see a comprehensive religious education (NOT bible class, it is not the same thing at all) in all schools. That way people can learn about world religions without having any anti-(insert religion of choice) bias.

People (by that I generally mean Christian fundies, but it can also mean your average American Christian too) will vilify halal, but are perfectly fine with kosher. What is the difference? None to my mind, except perhaps the religion of the person doing the slaughtering. Which brings it back to what the real problem is; the religion, not the method of slaughter.

Yes I get that some fundamentalist Muslims believed in a distorted version of their religion, were brainwashed to be full of hate and then flew some planes into buildings and a field. A whole lot of people died. I am not trying to be callous but we in the UK have had a very long and distinguished of terrorist attacks here in mainland Britain. Does that mean that everybody here hates Irish Catholics? Of course not. Nor do we hate every Muslim after the 7/7 attacks. Yes there is anti-muslim sentiment here but it isn't mainstream like it is in the USA and what we do have is usually a hysteria whipped up by the Daily Fail.

Halal means lawful. In essence it means the same thing as Kosher. Allah is just the Arabic word for god; if you speak to any Arabic Christians, they will use the word Allah when referring to the Christian god.

I'm lucky enough to have a large Asian supermarket in my town. I get halal meat; goat, lamb and chicken, there all the time. For one it is cheaper than in any other major supermarket; a kilo of chicken breasts for £5, lamb chops are £7 a kilo and goat is even cheaper, plus I can buy spices cheaper, and they have a huge range of 'exotic' fruit and veg far cheaper than Asda (walmart), who don't even sell things like mooli or plantains.

[darareaksmey]

It also says in the Bible not to worry about food sacrificed to idols or "unclean meats". So why don't fundies get that according to their own book, eating halal is OK?

This is what I don't get. Didn't Paul specifically address this in Romans? Or was it Corinthians?

[maybeizfundie]

I have argued with fellow fundies over this, actually. It is silly, and not a problem Biblically, for the reason you mentioned.

Unless you're being invited to eat meat directly as part of idol worship, or informed that in eating it you're committing an act of worship to some god or other, it's a non-issue, doesn't matter who killed it or who "blessed" it or whatever.

[RR88]

How is it way too simplistic and just not true? I've had both Jews and Muslims confirm this. When my Muslim friends moved to areas that did not have easy access to halal markets, they bought kosher meat if it was available. Are you talking about the US kosher practice of not using the back part of a carcass? That is a matter of removing certain nerves that not all kosher slaughterers are trained to do.

7alal and kashrut are similar but not the same. 7alal meat is generally not regarded as kosher, for example.

I think the fear of 7alal food is part and parcel of many Americans' fear of non-Christian religions. Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Satanism, Hinduism, Wicca…any philosophy or religion viewed as "other" can be a threat. Hell, look at the "war on Christmas" and how it's brought out of the woodwork all sorts of people who believe that only Christians can be "real" citizens…

[Rosa]

I heard a story on BBC the other night about how in Germany, halal practices are disallowed while kosher ones with the same "inhumane" standard (not stunning the animal first) are specifically allowed, because of the history of anti-Semites claiming that kosher standards are evil and inhumane. The courts overthrew the ban on halal butchers but licensing organizations have been using it anyway. I can't find a news article in English online, but there are a bunch of discussion boards & articles from countries like Netherlands and France and England about banning halal practices.

[2xx1xy1JD]

As others have said, Allah simply means G-d. Hubby's grandmother, an Iraqi Jew, always used Allah.

You can argue that the notion of G-d is somewhat different, since it is strictly monotheistic and rejects the notion of the trinity or of a Being that was both human and divine - but it's the same notion that Judaism has, and if anything Islam takes more pains to avoid idolatry (for example, traditional Islamic art is abstract so that nobody is praying to a picture).

Here's what Wikipedia says about the comparison between kosher and halal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison ... etary_laws

[gardenvarietycitizen]

If it's kosher in the supermarket, all pre-packaged (for you to cook at home) it's had some extra processing done, the salting/soaking to remove excess blood and whatnot. Which is laborious, and usually done by a less than huge conglomerate for a somewhat niche audience, so... kosher meat in the supermarket is PRICEY.

Which makes me wonder, is halal meat similar in that regard? Does it cost a lot? (My local "mainstream US market" has a little kosher section, but not halal, they apparently get meat elsewhere.) If it costs more than "normal" secular-slaughtered meat, I don't see why these fundies would be so worried about buying it anyway.

At a restaurant, as long as the food is good I'm happy to eat whatever. I would imagine a sign saying "halal" would mean that they aim at a Muslim audience, if the place is selling ethnic food from a country with a big Muslim population I'd hope that means they get patrons who are in the know, with experience in that country and picky, so the food is likely to be good :)

[HijabiLady]

If it's kosher in the supermarket, all pre-packaged (for you to cook at home) it's had some extra processing done, the salting/soaking to remove excess blood and whatnot. Which is laborious, and usually done by a less than huge conglomerate for a somewhat niche audience, so... kosher meat in the supermarket is PRICEY.

Which makes me wonder, is halal meat similar in that regard? Does it cost a lot? (My local "mainstream US market" has a little kosher section, but not halal, they apparently get meat elsewhere.) If it costs more than "normal" secular-slaughtered meat, I don't see why these fundies would be so worried about buying it anyway.

At a restaurant, as long as the food is good I'm happy to eat whatever. I would imagine a sign saying "halal" would mean that they aim at a Muslim audience, if the place is selling ethnic food from a country with a big Muslim population I'd hope that means they get patrons who are in the know, with experience in that country and picky, so the food is likely to be good :)

Indeed it is more pricey. It's the most costly thing on our grocery bill every week and there really is no way to make it more affordable. We don't get coupons or weekly deals on cheaper cuts. And I've noticed that Indian restaurants, whether run by Hindus or Muslims, usually have a halaal sign. My guess is they are so used to serving Muslims and Hindus alike they already have gotten used to making the compromise.