Rick Santorum has no clue about the Netherlands

[latraviata]

Santorum has either a vivid imagination or is just an ordinary liar.

Is there really the impression that we in the Netherlands go around with the lethal injection chasing for the elderly? This is not the first time we hear this kind of nonsense from American politicians, no offense but very often their knowledge of foreign policy and legislation leaves something to be desired, to say the least.

[chiccy]

I agree with his comments here about euthanasia (although in general I don't take as hard a line on it as he does)...however, arguing that abortions should again happen "in the shadows" is disgraceful.

[latraviata]

I agree with his comments here about euthanasia (although in general I don't take as hard a line on it as he does)...however, arguing that abortions should again happen "in the shadows" is disgraceful.

The euthanasia procedures in the Netherlands are very careful and it is very hard to get euthanised even when it is legally established and ratified in a written statement by yourself. An independent standing committee of doctors, will judge and assess the case and a notification to the prosecutor is mandatory.

No doctor is eager to commit euthanasia. In practice eathanasia is much less common than previously thought.

The man is bonkers and making things up, wether you are pro or contra euthanasia legislation.

This stupidity and downright false information is really very disturbing.

[koolmom]

Thanks for filling us FJ'ers in, latraviata! We here, too, think this man is a total embarassment and are ashamed and humiliated to

come from the same country as he is...Please bear with us all until this man finally sputters and goes dead...

[latraviata]

Thanks for filling us FJ'ers in, latraviata! We here, too, think this man is a total embarassment and are ashamed and humiliated to

come from the same country as he is...Please bear with us all until this man finally sputters and goes dead...

Well, we have our fair share of political nut cases as well. :oops: :oops:

[Guest Anonymous]

Well, we have our fair share of political nut cases as well. :oops: :oops:

Latraviata, I not only resent having this loon as a countryman, I don't even like belonging to the same SPECIES as him.

[debrand]

Because most Americans can't afford to travel to Europe, we are vulnerable to a politican that wants to make negative comparisons to other countries. The Netherlands is an example of the fact that socialism works well. Those on the right have to demonize socialism by presenting Europeans as lazy, free loaders whose countries are about to fall under the weight of their entitlement programs

[ilovetchotchkes]

The euthanasia procedures in the Netherlands are very careful and it is very hard to get euthanised even when it is legally established and ratified in a written statement by yourself. An independent standing committee of doctors, will judge and assess the case and a notification to the prosecutor is mandatory.

No doctor is eager to commit euthanasia. In practice eathanasia is much less common than previously thought.

The man is bonkers and making things up, wether you are pro or contra euthanasia legislation.

This stupidity and downright false information is really very disturbing.

So basically like someone getting a late term abortion here in the states? Like you've got ethics committees and such you can't just waltz into Planned Parenthood at 32 weeks pregnant and demand an abortion, there has to be like, something seriously wrong with the fetus.

I'd say its hilarious how they twist the actual reality around but it really isn't, its terrifying and would be hilariously pathetic if it weren't such dangerous thinking.

[Deleted03]

The euthanasia procedures in the Netherlands are very careful and it is very hard to get euthanised even when it is legally established and ratified in a written statement by yourself. An independent standing committee of doctors, will judge and assess the case and a notification to the prosecutor is mandatory.

No doctor is eager to commit euthanasia. In practice eathanasia is much less common than previously thought.

The man is bonkers and making things up, wether you are pro or contra euthanasia legislation.

This stupidity and downright false information is really very disturbing.

and again, euthanasia does not wait for legislation to occur. I have known people that have done it, in places where it is forbidden. Seeing your relative in a vegetative state or in an incredible amount of pain when you know they are bound to die is something hard on anyone, and makes you think about euthanasia.

Legislation is here to ensure fairness, good conditions, and that there is indeed consent.

[Three and Done]

[ilovetchotchkes]

The euthanasia procedures in the Netherlands are very careful and it is very hard to get euthanised even when it is legally established and ratified in a written statement by yourself. An independent standing committee of doctors, will judge and assess the case and a notification to the prosecutor is mandatory.

No doctor is eager to commit euthanasia. In practice eathanasia is much less common than previously thought.

The man is bonkers and making things up, wether you are pro or contra euthanasia legislation.

This stupidity and downright false information is really very disturbing.

[Three and Done]

Thanks, but as euthanasia is not legal in the US, my wishes would not be carried out. ;)

I still think of Terri Schiavo and shudder.

[ilovetchotchkes]

Thanks, but as euthanasia is not legal in the US, my wishes would not be carried out. ;)

I still think of Terri Schiavo and shudder.

Not necessarily. Its not euthanasia. My friends' dad was in a vetegative state with advanced cancer/stroke/CPD and his wife signed a DNR and advance directives, and they just let him pass on his own- they removed the breathing tube and such and he passed. My husband's grandmother was given higher doses of morphine because while it slows breathing and can hasten passing, her pain was unbearable and she was on hospice. The issue here is you gotta, even if you're young, have that paperwork filed and copies in quintuplicate keep copies in your glove compartment, your purse (i'm assuming your'e a chick) . Give a copy to your next of kin, your lawyer, EVERYONE. The whole thing happened because she did NOT have a living will.

Can you tell I have the EXACT same fear? :shock:

[Renting with Raggles]

Because most Americans can't afford to travel to Europe, we are vulnerable to a politican that wants to make negative comparisons to other countries. The Netherlands is an example of the fact that socialism works well. Those on the right have to demonize socialism by presenting Europeans as lazy, free loaders whose countries are about to fall under the weight of their entitlement programs

This reminds me of the time during the first healthcare debates a few years back when an American conservative living here (!) kept insisting that Australia spent over 40% of the federal budget on healthcare, we had death panels, waiting lists, etc. I was actually teaching about this at the time and directed him to various government websites etc, but he decided mid-conversation that it must be an Aussie gubmint conspiracy and that I was being duped by a bunch of lies.

[shesinsane]

I remember in the 80s a 60 Minutes (primetime network news program) had a story about euthanasia in the Netherlands. My mean old grandmother that lived with us saw the story, and for weeks was asking about getting a plane ticket to Amsterdam (she was very sick and tired of living).

Santorum or someone on his staff saw or read a news story about euthanasia in Holland, and due to the American trait of "I read an article about it, therefore I'm an expert", he decided to use it as a talking point.

[Austin]

In the USA, we treat dogs and cats more humanly than actual people. I have the strongest advanced directive that my attorney could write, my family is well-aware, and I have even videotaped my wishes, but there's no guarantee that my family could carry out those wishes without fear of prosecution because of Santorum and those who share his views.

[Knight of Ni]

In the USA, we treat dogs and cats more humanly than actual people. I have the strongest advanced directive that my attorney could write, my family is well-aware, and I have even videotaped my wishes, but there's no guarantee that my family could carry out those wishes without fear of prosecution because of Santorum and those who share his views.

This. I could never understand why it's considered humane to euthanize a cat or dog that is sick and in pain with no hope of recovery but considered a horrible evil thing to do if the victim is human. We wouldn't force our pets to live with horrible pain but we expect our family members to do so. I believe that this mindset comes from selfishness on part of the healthy family members. They don't want to have to deal with the pain of the death of a family member so much so that they would allow that family member to needlessly suffer.

[Austin]

This. I could never understand why it's considered humane to euthanize a cat or dog that is sick and in pain with no hope of recovery but considered a horrible evil thing to do if the victim is human. We wouldn't force our pets to live with horrible pain but we expect our family members to do so. I believe that this mindset comes from selfishness on part of the healthy family members. They don't want to have to deal with the pain of the death of a family member so much so that they would allow that family member to needlessly suffer.

We have very warped and unrealistic ideas about death in American culture. I was a hospice volunteer for seven years, and have worked with many familiess and their dying loved one. With many people, the impending death of their loved one somehow became all about them. They often seemed oblivious to the suffering of their loved one. I realized on an intellectual level that they weren't ready to let go of the person and all that, but sometimes it bordered on the ridiculous (and patently selfish).

When my FIL was in hospice and actively dying, he starting bleeding from every orifice. My MIL wanted him transported to the ER. The hospice nurses had to practically physically bar her from making that happen. Thankfully, for his sake, he passed pretty quickly after that.

[Witsec7]

Thanks, but as euthanasia is not legal in the US, my wishes would not be carried out. ;)

I still think of Terri Schiavo and shudder.

Oregon has Compassion in Dying. If your Dr. can attest you have six months or less to live, and if he also attests you are of sound mind you can get a prescription for a fatal dose of drugs. Certain non terminal illnesses are not included, MS, ALS, are considered non fatal and aren't included in our states law.

[Austin]

Oregon has Compassion in Dying. If your Dr. can attest you have six months or less to live, and if he also attests you are of sound mind you can get a prescription for a fatal dose of drugs. Certain non terminal illnesses are not included, MS, ALS, are considered non fatal and aren't included in our states law.

ALS is considered non-fatal? Isn't it always fatal? :shock:

[2xx1xy1JD]

For clarification, there is a difference between active euthanasia (actively doing something for the purpose of causing a death, out of a desire to end suffering) and not consenting to painful/futile medical treatment.

When someone goes into cardiac arrest or stops breathing as a result of a progressive, incurable illness, it's not necessarily appropriate to run a full code, put in a breathing tube, etc.

As for misreporting and fear-mongering, the American media did that with the sad case of Baby Joseph in Canada, and completely butchered the facts along the way (although it seems as though the family's representative may have been providing some of the misleading info, in a bid to get public support).

http://jrkmommy-personalandpolitical.bl ... eport.html

[Witsec7]

ALS is considered non-fatal? Isn't it always fatal? :shock:

Under OR law its considered non qualifying even though it will kill ya in the end. It may also have to do with it being difficult to get a Dr. to commit to the 6 month window. Patients also need to be able to self administer the meds, sometimes that can be a stumbling block with ALS as well. There had been talk about revisiting the law a few years back, but with the right to life climate, backers of the modification weren't up to the battle. As it stands in OR we have less than 200 people who end their live under this law annually. More people request the meds than use them.

Edited to add: I checked the actual law , ALS is not specifically excluded, but there were two memorable cases, Houck and Methany (sp) that made some headlines vis a vis ALS patients and compassion in dying.

[kb2]

If you are in the US (maybe other places?), you can watch this Frontline episode about euthanasia in Switzerland:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/suicidetourist/

I know someone who likes to go on about T Schiavo and how her husband just wanted to murder her so he could be free to marry someone else. Drives me nuts.

[BayLee_10]

Under OR law its considered non qualifying even though it will kill ya in the end. It may also have to do with it being difficult to get a Dr. to commit to the 6 month window. Patients also need to be able to self administer the meds, sometimes that can be a stumbling block with ALS as well. There had been talk about revisiting the law a few years back, but with the right to life climate, backers of the modification weren't up to the battle. As it stands in OR we have less than 200 people who end their live under this law annually. More people request the meds than use them.

Edited to add: I checked the actual law , ALS is not specifically excluded, but there were two memorable cases, Houck and Methany (sp) that made some headlines vis a vis ALS patients and compassion in dying.

There does seem to be a sort of 'survivor'....Stephen Hawkings. Were I in his shoes, would I want to be alive? Hard to say since I am not a genius.

[chiccy]

The euthanasia procedures in the Netherlands are very careful and it is very hard to get euthanised even when it is legally established and ratified in a written statement by yourself. An independent standing committee of doctors, will judge and assess the case and a notification to the prosecutor is mandatory.

No doctor is eager to commit euthanasia. In practice eathanasia is much less common than previously thought.

The man is bonkers and making things up, wether you are pro or contra euthanasia legislation.

This stupidity and downright false information is really very disturbing.

Is it really 10% of the death rate, though??

And have you seen those bracelets?