So I was lurking on the 19 K&C Page...

[MyNameIsJonas]

...and there was a thread going about the older girls taking care of the younger ones. Someone remarked that the girls were brainwashed and another poster said that you could only brainwash the willing. What do you think of this? Then, another poster said she found it offensive that brainwashing=willingness, because she had a close friend that was in an abusive relationship and didn't feel that she chose that life. The same poster who said that only the willing could be brainwashed brought up her own past abuse and said that staying in that type of relationship is a choice, no matter how many excuses you make. I don't know how I feel about that. What about you?

[shesinsane]

I suppose it can be a choice if the victim knows there are options, but that usually isn't the case.

Predators are good at spotting their prey. A guy who's planning to beat his woman is not going to ask out a gal he can sense won't put up with that shit. Perhaps the "choice" is putting up with things that would send others fleeing.

For example, a gal is dating a guy, he hits her, she dumps him and leaves. Guy starts dating another gal who's father hit her mother all the time, and when her guy hits her, she stays with him. She's choosing to stay in an abusive relationship, but that's ignoring the fact that her perspective is warped and she doesn't understand that hitting isn't normal.

One could argue that the elder Duggar girls are old enough to legally leave home if they want, they choose to stay and be servants. However, that doesn't take into account that the girls don't have solid educations, have been taught that independent women are bad, have been taught that the rest of the world is very sinful and staying home is the best way to avoid going to hell, etc.

I don't think it's fair to blame people for bad choices when the options are also bad, but seems to work for the poster who's comments you were reading.

[AudreyE]

I think that someone would have to be blind and stupid to be unwilling to acknowledge basic facts about human nature. Our brains are wired in certain ways as a result of the contact we have with our caregivers as babies and small children. We have no choice about this, and it is VERY challenging to alter this wiring, even when a person has a deep incentive to do so.

I can't think of anything less likely to provide an incentive to change than knowing that one must leave the only life she has ever known and be shunned by her family (especially when she has not been allowed to develop relationships outside this family)

This is a huge thing to ask of anyone, but especially of a young women who has been raised to be dependent and is clueless about the real world.

[silverspoons]

Look how young they start the "brainwashing". They read the bible to the unborn child and then the infant has to listen to repeated bible verses. Can you imagine if you have heard the same thing day after day for 18 years? When you are 18 are you going to leave to go out into the evil world or stay with what you know and is safe.

The big part of it as the grow older is everyone they are allowed to be friends with reinforce the same ideas. You hear Jill & Erin Bates say the exact same things about other ways of life. They never get to have a real conversation or spend a few days with anyone that has a different lifestyle (and on the off chance someone says the Duggars have because of the travels, we all know Jim Bob or Michelle is whispering in their ears that these different people are bad or wrong).

It also seems from what we know the punishment system goes along with the brainwashing theory. Fear is instilled from such a young age. From blanket training, to those weird games the play to get the kids to do anything the parents say to the prayer closet, it is all forms of control.