Anyone else want a lot of kids?

[whatup212]

I have SO much I want to say in response to what's been said on this topic.

First of all, I would LOVE to have a big family. From the time I was very young to even just a couple of years ago, I wanted at least four or five kids--even more if foster care or adoption were in the picture too. If my life changes course drastically and that becomes a possibility, with a willing partner and decent finances, I would in a heartbeat. I love kids and cannot wait to be a mom. But my reality is that I am 27 years old and very, very single. I will not complete my master's for another year and plan on pursuing an additional license that will require at least another semester of schooling. I have worked long and hard for my career and education, and I plan to make good use of them before kids are in the picture. So at the pace I am going, with the other factors in my life, two or three will be more likely.

I will do whatever I can not to have an only child. I am an only child with a huge extended family and really close friends that offered me the kind of support that made up for not having a close sibling. I always wanted to be part of a large sibling group, but being an only child certainly didn't ruin my childhood. But, when I was in high school, my parents started having a variety of issues and eventually got a divorce right after I graduated. As close as I was to my friends, they had no idea what to do or say. My great extended family was either on my mom's side or my dad's. I felt SO alone. I remember trying to talk to an aunt once --who I could talk to about ANYTHING under the sun and normally receive kind words and support---about something hurtful my mom had done and she just said, "I will always be on your mom's side." I remember wanting to know who the hell was supposed to be on MY side, because it felt like no one was. I have had eight years of stressful, anxiety attack causing holidays trying to fairly balance things. It sucks. I know that divorce is hard on kids, no matter what, but to navigate it alone was/is absolutely horrible. I know you can't guarantee having a sibling that you will get along with or who will understand everything, but I would have been willing to gamble that for the chance to have ONE person who really understood the situation to talk to. The prospect of dealing with aging parents alone is so, so frightening to me, I'm getting choked up just typing this. Thank god they are both just in their 50's and live pretty healthy lifestyles (with the exception of my father's vegetable intake--but that's another story). I'm not trying to argue with anyone, if there was one ideal kind of family, more of them would be alike, but that is my case for having more than one child.

Lastly, I want to respond to all of the talk about not wanting to have too many kids because of college costs? How many of you had parents that paid for college? I sure didn't. Those Sallie Mae statements come to me and me alone. If the time comes and I have the money to easily pay for my children's schooling without much strain, sure I will, but I don't think there is anything wrong with leaving it up to the student. I am very proud to say that I worked hard for my college degree in every way and I think being responsible for costs made me a harder working student. There's nothing wrong with wanting to provide for your children, but when do you turn the responsibility over to them?

[Patsy]

All my uni loans are from the gubmint. ILU, socialist gubmint

[dirtyhippiegirl]

Have to admit it, neither my husband nor I have any student loans because our parents put us through university. (His mom is a doctor. My father is a doctor.) And that sort of freedom is probably the best thing that either of them ever did for us.

(And his mom put all five of his siblings through university. My father put seven of us through university and helped pay for a brother's law degree.)

[changemanagement]

Just my take for my only..

It was our intent from the day the kid was born to cover college. We did the savings thing from birth. That saving shit was hard. I suppose if we had more than one, we'd give it our best shot, but life happens and sometimes it's just hard.

Today, the kid is finishing up the 4th and yes final year :clap: of college on our dime. We did not want to saddle the kid with loans (nor ourselves) and the kid has expressed gratitude for that. Oh yeah, she does have a part time job for her own expenses and we asked that she contribute some to her tuition--- a little skin in the game.

Kids are expensive. In the end you have to do what works for you.

[Austin]

I think suggesting that people who don't have bank accounts large enough to pay for multiple kids to go to private schools don't have their priorities straight or that that saving shit was "too hard" is incredibly insulting. Judgmental much?

If you want an only because it is so freaking important to you or your speshul snowflake to have to take no ebil loans, then go ahead. But I think that is the STUPIDEST reason to cite regarding the decision to have an only that I've heard. Having an only is certainly a legitimate choice which I respect, and sometimes it just happens anyway, but to cite that as primary reason is just silly. Kids who want to go to college go to college. Some have partial family help (our EFC is $12K, $10K, and $10K respectively, so of course we're paying) and cobble the rest together with scholarships, work study, grants, and loans. Yeah, they have to put a little skin in the game, they have to ante up some effort to make it happen, and I personally think that is good for young people. I don't think we'd completely pay even if we had $1M in the bank, because I don't think it's good for kids to just hand them everything. Seems like some of the attitudes here bear that out, but that is my personal opinion born out of my experience of having raised three kids to successful, responsible adulthood.

Make whatever decisions you want. But you don't need to justify your decisions by citing stupid reasons or be judgmental and nasty about it. No one here is saying that you are selfish for having only one or wanting only one because they might miss out on the experience of a larger family, so there's really no need for these judgmental statements.

[apple1]

It's about priorities.

You should reserve judgment until you have BTDT.

Nobody knows what life will bring in the future, and all the plans in the world can be derailed in one instant: the instant of being informed that the job/paycheck is gone (and may not be replaceable by anything comparable).

[theologygeek]

Lastly, I want to respond to all of the talk about not wanting to have too many kids because of college costs? How many of you had parents that paid for college? I sure didn't.

I agree with everything you said, and especially this part. My parents gave us each some for college, but not all of it. I have no problem with kids taking out student loans. It makes them think twice about being lazy and screwing up their future. They know that they have to take their schooling and jobs seriously because they have loans to pay back. I have seen some of the friends of my kids turn college into party time and they end up flunking out. My daughter's friend has dropped out of two schools so far. Her parents finally told her that if she wanted to go again, she would have to pay for it herself. They should have made her pay her way the first time. She got a job in the field that she was going to school for. It was a wonderful job. She quit. She is being too footloose and fancy free.

[Wolfie]

Money is important, but the thing that bothers me about QF families is that they don't give a flying fuck about their kids as little people. That attitude would be there if there was 1, 5, or 20 children in the house. That would happen if they were millionaires. They don't give a damn about the well-being of every little person; they are playing a numbers game.

I think that this depends on the family- most of the ones we discuss here are like that. I have some friends who are "no birth control" but they love each of their children, and they're always posting on facebook "so and so did this" or " so and so did that." Another difference between them and the ones we discuss here is that they have 5-8 kids and don't accuse others without kids or who limit their family size of doing it wrong.

If I ever have kids, I think it will be limited to less than 3. Partly for mental stabiltiy, partly because I want to be able to afford at least some things for them.

Blackhawk- nobody here is saying that money is all it takes to raise kids, but they are saying that it makes it easier. I grew up in a family with two "oops" kids. That really made finances change, and now I can look back and see the stress on my parents, but kids don't really notice that. I suspect that those who say "think about what you can afford" are also thinking of their own mental comfort. That's important too. (and what you can afford does not need to be a lavish lifestyle either.)

[SoybeanQueen]

So I have a legitimate question that may ruffle some feathers: for all of you who want big families (e.g, 4+ kids), can you REALLY afford it?

My kids probably don't even know what Velveeta is. We're not rolling in dough, but we afford our 5 just fine. I'm sure people consider us part of the overpopulation problem, but three of ours are adopted from the foster system, so I think we get a pass on that one.

They do wear hand me downs sometimes, but that's because I buy cute stuff that lasts, and if it's still good, I'm not getting rid of it. That would be silly. They do get new outfits to supplement, no matter where they fall in birth order, because everyone deserves stuff that is just theirs.

All of mine do 4-H and softball/baseball. The boys also do wrestling and flag football. The girls chose gymnastics. The boys aren't so much into hobbies yet, but one of my daughters is into robotics and outdoorsy stuff and loves training hunting dogs, and my other daughter is more into crafts and drawing. You don't have to be wealthy to allow them to discover their interests. It's a huge time commitment, sure. Kid activities are a budget priority for us, and the whole family goes to support each kid in their competitions whenever possible.

I do think it's important for parents of many kids to spend time with each one individually. Last week I took my boys out for an ice cream date (each on on a different day). Today my oldest daughter is off with my husband for the whole day at some outdoor expo. It's doable, but again, you have to make it a priority.

[ilovetchotchkes]

I agree with everything you said, and especially this part. My parents gave us each some for college, but not all of it. I have no problem with kids taking out student loans. It makes them think twice about being lazy and screwing up their future. They know that they have to take their schooling and jobs seriously because they have loans to pay back. I have seen some of the friends of my kids turn college into party time and they end up flunking out. My daughter's friend has dropped out of two schools so far. Her parents finally told her that if she wanted to go again, she would have to pay for it herself. They should have made her pay her way the first time. She got a job in the field that she was going to school for. It was a wonderful job. She quit. She is being too footloose and fancy free.

My parents split it 50/50 what my scholarships didn't cover. I now have about $28,000 in debt from student loans, which my husband and I hope we will pay off within the next 5-6 years, as our cars are thisclose to being paid off.

To the person who seems to think that "its about priorities" as far as sending your kids to an Ivy League school and not expecting them (the kids) to pay anything, dude are you serious? if that were the case, I would not have gone to college at ALL. Period, the end. My parents are solid middle middle class and with 2 kids in school, (there were only 2 of us) there is no way in hell they would have been able to afford $50,000+ a year for both my sister and I go to school (at non Ivy League, middle of the road Catholic Universities). Even if they had made severe cut backs, they would have had to move to say a 1 bedroom apartment and gotten rid of probably both of their cars. Yeah no. I don't expect that of my parents.

As far as having more kids and being able to "really " afford it, thats exactly why we're capping our family size at 3 max. I don't have the room for more, and our house, while modest is seriously one of the most awesome places I've ever lived in. we've got a HUGE yard, that if we needed more bedrooms, we'd have to sacrifice, and its just... its just perfect for US. KWIM? We had a long talk about how I wanted a bigger family and my husband basically said "while I'd love to give that to you, I don't think we can afford it, and I don't want our kids to be wanting growing up. he's concerned that we'll be able to afford the basics, like clothes, shoes, and that sort of thing. Not "omg we can't afford cable" and I agree with him.

My single child (i'm gestating #2) has never had velveeta because the smell and sight of it makes me gag. We eat as well as we can. Organic when we can afford it, regular when we can't and even better, the garden in the summer gives us a LOT of produce. I've got 30+ jars of pickles canned from 2 cucumber plants and I have designs for a much bigger, more awesome garden this year.

[Rosa]

There is a level of lack of money that kids sure do notice. If you're moving in the middle of the night at the end of the month, kids notice that. I know a woman who ended up in a homeless shelter with kids, after leaving an abusive spouse. Kids definitely notice that. (I actually have met lots of homeless women with kids, through working with homeless people; this is a woman I know through other channels, who is smart and hardworking and emotionally healthy and lucky, and ended up temporarily homeless anyway.)

Even when it's not one-paycheck-from-homelessness bad, kids notice more than adults think. When I was a kid, there was a big recession. I remember one of my classmates CRYING because we tore some craft paper and she didn't want to ask her mom to buy more. My parents thought they shielded us from it, but that just meant that when Daddy suddenly got a new job and we had to move, it was a huge shock. And the stress was still there - a friend of ours, her husband just lost his job, they are not broke and he's looking, and they haven't really talked to their kid about it, but he's obviously feeling it, and having school problems all week.

[Cerysbell]

My mother often says how glad she is that times have changed and it's perfectly normal and acceptable for a woman not to want children. She is in her sixties and has friends who didn't really want families, or couldn't have them and got a really hard time from parents/in laws/nosey parkers. My best friend is childfree by choice and has never felt criticised for it (except of course by her stupid ass ex who 'thought she'd change her mind' and left her when she didn't).

Growing up, I wanted what I had myself, two children, close in age, of the same gender. I was lucky enough to get that and totally expected to be done...but somehow wasn't. DH was from a family of three and was happy to have a third, so we did and then he got snipped. I am happy to be done, I think any more would have been overwhelming for me. Dh's cousin has four and they make it look easy, definitely a ymmv thing.

[Arete]

I'm speaking as a kid who did wear hand me downs, whose parents could not cover the entire cost of college, and who remembers the recession in the early 70's vividly. I would not trade my parents or my childhood for a mansion and Ma and Pa Walton. Having to provide part of the cost of your education DOES keep your head in the game. Siblings are a good thing, and I have had some knockdown drama with mine. Yet even with our problems, when one of us is in need, we circle the wagons and have each others backs. When my dad died a few years ago, we did not think, "we sure wish the old man had had more money" we thought it was a damned shame as people who could not have had a better father that he couldn't have had better kids. So for you guys out there with multiple kids and limited funds, don't worry about it. Much more important to encourage your kids in their dreams and love them as individual people. Unless you have had the misfortune to raise a sociopath, we wouldn't trade the sib for tuition money.

[Lostie]

I'm a oops kid. My mom never wanted kids, but she accidentally got pregnant when she was 26. I'm also an only child and, although I would have liked a sibling, I know my mom could never have afforded it. I was born premature and spent the first month of my life in the Children's Hospital before I could have open heart surgery because I was born with holes in my heart. Thank goodness we live in Canada because I have no clue how she would have afforded the hospital bills.

Did I wish we had more money? Of course! I wanted to go to boarding school and would have loved to have a bigger house. I freely admit that this may have skewed a few of my values in life - such as my ultimate goal in life being to have lots of money. Even though we're not well off though she did/does the best she can. I took swimming lessons for 3 years (which I hated), gymnastics for 1 (which I loved, but apparently complained about), and drama lessons for 2 (which I loved, but gave up because I liked it too much - acting isn't exactly a viable career choice after all). I never got to go to a boarding school or even a private school, but I was in the gifted program at the best public high school in our city.

She's encouraged my education (even when I threw calculators across the room because I hated Math) and I'm now in second year of university studying political science and religious studies with goals to either be a lawyer or a professor. I live at home (for a small fee in rent) and I pay my way through school with a combination of working and loans.

Also, just because we weren't well off didn't mean I didn't get to do anything - it just meant I appreciated it more. She took me to Disneyland for a week when I was 15 and we had the time of our lives. I had to get a job when I was 15 (which I despised - especially as most of my friends didn't have to work), but that job paid my way to a 2 week vacation in Spain the next summer which was one of the most amazing experiences of my life. I also paid my own way to go to a Harry Potter music festival in Missouri (called Wrockstock) twice - once when I was 18, and again the next year.

She was one of six - and she gets along with some of her siblings, but she's accepted the fact that she's going to be getting a hairless cat (which I'm calling The Dark Lord) for a grandchild. I always knew we weren't well off (especially once I got to high school and many of the people I went to school with were wealthier), but my mom and I have an unbreakable bond that I would give up for anything.

[treemom]

Lostie, which wrockstock did you go to? I was at the first.

[Lostie]

Lostie, which wrockstock did you go to? I was at the first.

Awesome!

Unfortunately I was at 3 and 4 though. Before that I was too young because there's no way my mom would have gone.

[treemom]

Awesome!

Unfortunately I was at 3 and 4 though. Before that I was too young because there's no way my mom would have gone.

I am sure we know the same peeps. Matt, Alex, Justin, and the mudbloods all played my son's ninth birthday party.

[Lostie]

I am sure we know the same peeps. Matt, Alex, Justin, and the mudbloods all played my son's ninth birthday party.

SERIOUSLY! I am so, so jealous.

Stupid living in Canada...

[treemom]

Yep. But it was his 8th birthday.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... a26cdc2de3

He raised 300 for HPA

[Lostie]

Yep. But it was his 8th birthday.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... a26cdc2de3

He raised 300 for HPA

Okay, I'm sure you hear this all the time but your son is AWESOME! And you are an awesome mom!

[ilovetchotchkes]

I'm speaking as a kid who did wear hand me downs, whose parents could not cover the entire cost of college, and who remembers the recession in the early 70's vividly. I would not trade my parents or my childhood for a mansion and Ma and Pa Walton. Having to provide part of the cost of your education DOES keep your head in the game. Siblings are a good thing, and I have had some knockdown drama with mine. Yet even with our problems, when one of us is in need, we circle the wagons and have each others backs. When my dad died a few years ago, we did not think, "we sure wish the old man had had more money" we thought it was a damned shame as people who could not have had a better father that he couldn't have had better kids. So for you guys out there with multiple kids and limited funds, don't worry about it. Much more important to encourage your kids in their dreams and love them as individual people. Unless you have had the misfortune to raise a sociopath, we wouldn't trade the sib for tuition money.

Yeah but there's a difference between hand me downs/thrift store finds and having a full belly even though its not gourmet food and living on costco shelving stacked 10 to a bedroom and subsisting on gloodles, tube meat and skirt cheese.... (ok i'm mixing fundies here but you guys all know what i mean)

[Arete]

ilovechotckes, I agree with you. We were not the products of a lifetime of indiscriminate breeding and my parents did the raising, not any of us. What these fundies do to their children is sick. There is no excuse for not educating your children, feeding them shit, and mentally and emotionally stunting them. Nor does it require being rich. It does require knowing when you have the family size that has maxed your financial, emotional and spiritual resources and stopping there. For some people its 1, for some people it's more than 1. I don't consider the QFs having up to 19 kids they can't feed, house, or raise having a family. It's having a litter or an orphanage.