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Buzzard

Oprah visits Hasidic Jews SUNDAY 2/12 9pm

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Buzzard

OWN - a channel I had deleted from my playlist due to stupidity.

 

"Oprah's" Next Chapter. Its an hour long show with 2 families per the preview.

 

9pm ET.

Edited by OnceUponATime
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Beeks

I saw the preview for this somewhere online. Looks semi-interesting. Do you plan to watch?

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xDreamerx

I will. It looks interesting.

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chiccy

Apparently she visits a family of black Hasidic Jews as well. (Don't know if it will be aired tonight or later...) I'm definitely going to watch.

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chiccy

Ahh, it looks like I don't get OWN where I am now. Anyone know of a place to watch online?

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Buzzard

I set my DVR but Walking dead gets my attention tonight... then downton abbey. I think it will probably make it online considering the channel is barely holding on.

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xDreamerx

OT--I've been looking for Our America with Lisa Ling online. I found clips but no full episodes. If anyone finds a place with full episodes, could you let me know please? :)

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Rachel333
OT--I've been looking for Our America with Lisa Ling online. I found clips but no full episodes. If anyone finds a place with full episodes, could you let me know please? :)

If you don't mind less... official sources: http://watchseries.eu/serie/our_america_with_lisa_ling That's how I've watched them.

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emmiedahl

I heard about this on imamom. I hope it gets uploaded to the internet, because I am definitely interested.

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clibbyjo

I saw the preview of the Oprah story on Chaviva's blog a few days ago (Just Call Me Chaviva)

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FireIsCatching89

If you don't mind less... official sources: http://watchseries.eu/serie/our_america_with_lisa_ling That's how I've watched them.

Thank you, thank you! I live in a dorm with no cable, just internet, and I watch all my shows online. Say what you will, but I love Lisa Ling, and sometimes a little OWN is what I need if I'm under the weather.

(Also, for any US Skins fans- they have reliable links for the new season posted about four hours after they air in the UK, so I've been able to watch the new epis the day of.)

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Buzzard

Thank you, thank you! I live in a dorm with no cable, just internet, and I watch all my shows online. Say what you will, but I love Lisa Ling, and sometimes a little OWN is what I need if I'm under the weather.

(Also, for any US Skins fans- they have reliable links for the new season posted about four hours after they air in the UK, so I've been able to watch the new epis the day of.)

You should invest in a hava or a slingbox - even the cheap ones - assuming you've got someone off campus that would let you control their cable box. They're awesome.

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dawn9476

There is going to be a second part that airs tomorrow night. She talks with four Hasidic jewish women.

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xDreamerx

If you don't mind less... official sources: http://watchseries.eu/serie/our_america_with_lisa_ling That's how I've watched them.

Thank-you for the linkage. You're awesome :). My dorm has OWN on it's cable but I never knew when Lisa Ling was on so I missed it.

This has brought up questions for me. Could someone explain the distinction between Orthodox and Hasidic? I know Hasidic is stricter but I thought Orthodox women followed some of these practices as well such as the wigs and the regulations around the menstrual cycle. Am I wrong in this?

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chiccy

Thank-you for the linkage. You're awesome :). My dorm has OWN on it's cable but I never knew when Lisa Ling was on so I missed it.

This has brought up questions for me. Could someone explain the distinction between Orthodox and Hasidic? I know Hasidic is stricter but I thought Orthodox women followed some of these practices as well such as the wigs and the regulations around the menstrual cycle. Am I wrong in this?

Hasidism is a subset of Orthodox Judaism. (The other strain within Orthodoxy is known as Yeshivism/Litvism.) All Orthodox Jews obey the laws of hair-covering and family purity for women--the latter refer to rules against having sex within 2 weeks after the woman's period. Hasidim tend to fall on the strict end of the Orthodox observance spectrum, although there are exceptions. They are also characterized by their more mystical/emotional approach to Judaism, as well as the fact that they are divided into groups with allegiance to particular Rebbes.

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2xx1xy1JD

Hasidism is a subset of Orthodox Judaism. (The other strain within Orthodoxy is known as Yeshivism/Litvism.) All Orthodox Jews obey the laws of hair-covering and family purity for women--the latter refer to rules against having sex within 2 weeks after the woman's period. Hasidim tend to fall on the strict end of the Orthodox observance spectrum, although there are exceptions. They are also characterized by their more mystical/emotional approach to Judaism, as well as the fact that they are divided into groups with allegiance to particular Rebbes.

You also have the Modern Orthodox. Modern Orthodox follow the things that are clearly required by Jewish law, including the family purity laws, but generally don't expand prohibitions. They aren't insular, and will encourage decent secular/general education along with religious education. Hair covering practices vary.

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chiccy

You also have the Modern Orthodox. Modern Orthodox follow the things that are clearly required by Jewish law, including the family purity laws, but generally don't expand prohibitions. They aren't insular, and will encourage decent secular/general education along with religious education. Hair covering practices vary.

Good point. The MO are a big group, especially in Israel and America. I think they are usually considered a subset of Yeshivists, right?

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2xx1xy1JD

Sometimes, but not always.

There are yeshivists who are just as strict as Hasidic Jews. They tend to wear black hats, black suits and white shirts, avoid television and other media other than religious publications, be strict about modesty, segregate genders, and do the bare minimum of secular studies. Boys in this group are encouraged to do religious studies indefinitely - for at least the first year of two of marriage, and for as long afterward as possible. Girls are encouraged to go to religious colleges that will also prepare them for careers, so that they can support the family. You have a lot of speech therapists, occupational therapists and graphic designers in the New York/New Jersey area who are women from this group.

Modern Orthodox are basically not insular, and embrace secular education. There is also significant overlap between Modern Orthodox and "Dati Leumi" (religious Zionists).

Some Modern Orthodox follow the late Rabbi Moses Feinstein, who was considered to be the greatest American rabbi in the non-Hasidic Orthodox world. Rabbi Feinstein was also a very important influence for the ultra-Orthodox yeshivish group, so there is overlap at this point. Many Modern Orthodox also follow Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik, who was the head of the rabbinical school of Yeshiva University. He came from one of the most influential yeshivish families, but is regarded as the intellectual father of Modern Orthodoxy.

You also have Modern Orthodox who are "traditional". These are Jews who generally come from places where the Jewish community hadn't splintered into a zillion little groups and where Reform and Conservative Judaism were not major forces. Non-European Jews often fall into this category. So do many Jews from Montreal and South Africa.

You have Modern Orthodox who have been influenced, to some degree, by the Chabad Lubavitch branch of Hasidic Jews. Chabad is NOT insular, unlike most other Hasidic branches, and actively reaches out to students, unaffiliated Jews, Jews needing chaplaincy services, Jews who are traveling around the world and Jews in the former Soviet Union. Most of the people that they serve will not become full Lubavitchers, but they will be taught Judaism from a Chabad Lubavitch perspective while often keeping their day jobs and liking the fact that Chabad is relatively open, for the Orthodox world, where they do outreach. Ideas from Lubavitch have filtered through to the Modern Orthodox world (and even to the non-Orthodox world). As well, an ex-Chabad rabbi, Rabbi Shlomo Carlebach, went on to become hugely influential for both his music and his joyful singing and dancing approach to Judaism.

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gardenvarietycitizen

Probably someone else is more qualified to answer (and I see 2xx1xy1JD just has, while I was writing this!) but from what I can tell lurking around the internet for years... (I'll go ahead and post anyway)...

The biggest divide is Orthodox vs. not. Originally there was only "Judaism" (some people were observant, some weren't, but there was only one basic set of binding rules). Once movements came up to reinterpret some rules or say they should be applied differently in modern life to the point that some don't think you can go that far, or to say that the rules aren't necessarily binding (so, Conservative and Reform) "Orthodox" became applied to the observant practice of the old rules (while people who didn't affiliate with the new rules but still weren't so observant become just "traditional").

Inside Orthodox, there's Chassidic vs. not. Chassidism is a different approach to things, the idea was to have a daily religious practice more "lived" and accessible to ordinary working people, more charismatic, rather than so much emphasis on book learning only. The big names in that movement are the various rebbes, and they have the different "courts" with hereditary leaders. They tend to be very strict (particularly in modern days) so are part of the "Ultra-Orthodox." They tend to eschew secular learning except as needed for jobs, so some of them have schools with no secular studies beyond Bar Mitzvah (particularly among the stricter places in Israel), etc. Often they speak Yiddish in school. As 2xx1xy1JD says, Chabad Lubavitch is different in that they actively outreach (to non-observant Jewish people) and aren't insular for the most part.

Among the non-Chassidic, people who are very into traditional learning (clearly favoring it over secular studies) are the "Yeshivish" - they hang out in Yeshiva. The big names in that movement are the various "Rosh Yeshiva" - the "principals" or leaders of big name yeshivas. Some of them can be very extremely strict too, eschewing secular learning, and some of them think the highest calling for adult men is full time learning, so they spend time in Kollel (like a graduate school Yeshiva, for married men). They too, if "right-wing" (read: religiously strict) enough, are part of the "Ultra-Orthodox." The various Rosh Yeshiva can definitely be charismatic leaders, but it's not a hereditary thing.

In Israel meanwhile there's the term "Haredim," "those who tremble before God." This term has started to be used in the US now recently. Usually, at least in Israel, it tends to refer to extremely religious ("Ultra-Orthodox") people who are NOT Chassidic, but it's being used wider now, so some people consider various Chassidic people to also be Haredim.

In both Israel and the US there's a trend of sorts for various Chassidic customs to be adopted by non-Chassidic Haredim/Yeshivish, too, which blends the lines, as 2xx1xy1JD also mentions.

Separately from all that, there's the "Modern Orthodox," who officially believe in keeping all of the religious laws (not modifying what they mean, as they say Conservatives do) but also explicitly valuing a secular education and taking part in modern secular life. So they tend to have schools that stress the dual track curriculum through high school, go to college (regular secular colleges), etc. They don't tend to have the regimented dress code of the other groups - they will obey the modesty laws (though some will say it's okay to show elbows or not cover hair, there's also some disagreement on pants - but "right wing" MO will follow all the same official modesty laws as the other groups) but they won't have the extra "community uniform" that says men must wear black and white only, no jeans, only black yarmulke, that sort of thing. Also they tend to be Zionist while the other groups (often?) aren't.

Separately from that AGAIN, in Israel the lines are a bit different, there there's still the Chassidic vs. not thing, but the other big line is - army or not? People who are very religious but also Zionist and supporting of the army are "religious zionist" (RZ) or "Dati Leumi" (religious/nationalist). Among them, you have people who are still Zionist but otherwise lean more toward the extreme religious strictness, they'll call themselves "Chardal" (so like mix of Charedi and Dati Leumi).

...and what kind and color of yarmulke you wear can associate you with one of these groups, so you gotta be careful about it. In Israel particularly the lines between communities can be stricter, it's a big deal (you can read on various blogs) deciding what school to send your kids to when the first one hits school age, because that will decide a LOT about the kids' lives and by extension your own social circles.

And there's other lines intersecting these, and other groups... surely there's a Venn diagram out there somewhere.

But in the US, the basic basic thing is, are you Orthodox? If so, are you Chassidic? If you're not Chassidic, then if you're very religiously strict, restrict secular exposure, wear the black and white, and value learning in Yeshiva above all else, you're Yeshivish (or leaning that way). Otherwise, "MO" is the catchall, and people argue about what it means now. Being Chassidic or not is a more easy "yes/no" (and you'd belong to a given one, though now there's some blurring) but MO/Yeshivish is more of a spectrum, basically how "modern" you are and how much you value secular knowledge (officially or otherwise).

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chiccy

I would say the distinctions within Orthodoxy can be broken up 2 different ways: into Chasidism/Yeshivism and into Haredi/MO. All Chasidic groups would probably be considered Haredi (although there might be some exceptions, like Carlebachians/Chavakuk and certain Breslovers). However, within Yeshivism there are Haredi and non-Haredi Yeshivists, the latter being mostly MO's and derivatives thereof.

In terms of hashkafa and minhag, MO do seem to be distinctly Yeshivist in style and practice, so I'd put them under that category. But I do know there are some people whose observance is at the MO-level yet whose practice is Chasidic in style, for example Chabad-lite and the aforementioned groups (Carlebach/Chavakuk and some Breslov).

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2xx1xy1JD
Probably someone else is more qualified to answer (and I see 2xx1xy1JD just has, while I was writing this!) but from what I can tell lurking around the internet for years... (I'll go ahead and post anyway)...

The biggest divide is Orthodox vs. not. Originally there was only "Judaism" (some people were observant, some weren't, but there was only one basic set of binding rules). Once movements came up to reinterpret some rules or say they should be applied differently in modern life to the point that some don't think you can go that far, or to say that the rules aren't necessarily binding (so, Conservative and Reform) "Orthodox" became applied to the observant practice of the old rules (while people who didn't affiliate with the new rules but still weren't so observant become just "traditional").

Inside Orthodox, there's Chassidic vs. not. Chassidism is a different approach to things, the idea was to have a daily religious practice more "lived" and accessible to ordinary working people, more charismatic, rather than so much emphasis on book learning only. The big names in that movement are the various rebbes, and they have the different "courts" with hereditary leaders. They tend to be very strict (particularly in modern days) so are part of the "Ultra-Orthodox." They tend to eschew secular learning except as needed for jobs, so some of them have schools with no secular studies beyond Bar Mitzvah (particularly among the stricter places in Israel), etc. Often they speak Yiddish in school. As 2xx1xy1JD says, Chabad Lubavitch is different in that they actively outreach (to non-observant Jewish people) and aren't insular for the most part.

Among the non-Chassidic, people who are very into traditional learning (clearly favoring it over secular studies) are the "Yeshivish" - they hang out in Yeshiva. The big names in that movement are the various "Rosh Yeshiva" - the "principals" or leaders of big name yeshivas. Some of them can be very extremely strict too, eschewing secular learning, and some of them think the highest calling for adult men is full time learning, so they spend time in Kollel (like a graduate school Yeshiva, for married men). They too, if "right-wing" (read: religiously strict) enough, are part of the "Ultra-Orthodox." The various Rosh Yeshiva can definitely be charismatic leaders, but it's not a hereditary thing.

In Israel meanwhile there's the term "Haredim," "those who tremble before God." This term has started to be used in the US now recently. Usually, at least in Israel, it tends to refer to extremely religious ("Ultra-Orthodox") people who are NOT Chassidic, but it's being used wider now, so some people consider various Chassidic people to also be Haredim.

In both Israel and the US there's a trend of sorts for various Chassidic customs to be adopted by non-Chassidic Haredim/Yeshivish, too, which blends the lines, as 2xx1xy1JD also mentions.

Separately from all that, there's the "Modern Orthodox," who officially believe in keeping all of the religious laws (not modifying what they mean, as they say Conservatives do) but also explicitly valuing a secular education and taking part in modern secular life. So they tend to have schools that stress the dual track curriculum through high school, go to college (regular secular colleges), etc. They don't tend to have the regimented dress code of the other groups - they will obey the modesty laws (though some will say it's okay to show elbows or not cover hair, there's also some disagreement on pants - but "right wing" MO will follow all the same official modesty laws as the other groups) but they won't have the extra "community uniform" that says men must wear black and white only, no jeans, only black yarmulke, that sort of thing. Also they tend to be Zionist while the other groups (often?) aren't.

Separately from that AGAIN, in Israel the lines are a bit different, there there's still the Chassidic vs. not thing, but the other big line is - army or not? People who are very religious but also Zionist and supporting of the army are "religious zionist" (RZ) or "Dati Leumi" (religious/nationalist). Among them, you have people who are still Zionist but otherwise lean more toward the extreme religious strictness, they'll call themselves "Chardal" (so like mix of Charedi and Dati Leumi).

...and what kind and color of yarmulke you wear can associate you with one of these groups, so you gotta be careful about it. In Israel particularly the lines between communities can be stricter, it's a big deal (you can read on various blogs) deciding what school to send your kids to when the first one hits school age, because that will decide a LOT about the kids' lives and by extension your own social circles.

And there's other lines intersecting these, and other groups... surely there's a Venn diagram out there somewhere.

But in the US, the basic basic thing is, are you Orthodox? If so, are you Chassidic? If you're not Chassidic, then if you're very religiously strict, restrict secular exposure, wear the black and white, and value learning in Yeshiva above all else, you're Yeshivish (or leaning that way). Otherwise, "MO" is the catchall, and people argue about what it means now. Being Chassidic or not is a more easy "yes/no" (and you'd belong to a given one, though now there's some blurring) but MO/Yeshivish is more of a spectrum, basically how "modern" you are and how much you value secular knowledge (officially or otherwise).

Good summary.

BTW, this is why those folks who believe in some "international Jewish conspiracy" are delusional idiots who have obviously never associated with real Jews. We argue far too much to ever be able to agree on anything, let alone form a whole conspiracy!

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Buzzard

So having watched both episodes I think she did a good propaganda piece. Women are worshiped, they're all happy, everything is awesome. I have no ill will towards the hasidim, but I think we need to call it what it is, they're extremists. Oprah has a funny way of having emotionally vulnerable people clinging to her every word and presenting this perfect happy life isnt going to help anyone l - the hasidim dont really take applicants (unless you happen to already be a jewish woman).

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Terrie

A question. Is there a range of observance within the various... groups (denominations? sects? not sure on the right word). Like, you think the "correct" way of doing things in the Modern Orthodox way, but you don't really bother with it outside of important holidays. Or do only the more liberal interpretations allowed semi- or non-observant members?

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Buzzard
A question. Is there a range of observance within the various... groups (denominations? sects? not sure on the right word). Like, you think the "correct" way of doing things in the Modern Orthodox way, but you don't really bother with it outside of important holidays. Or do only the more liberal interpretations allowed semi- or non-observant members?

I'm not sure I understand what youre asking. The Hasidim are VERY extreme. Theyre far past modern orthodox.

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