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Being Against Interracial Marriage Isn't Racist


MandyLaLa

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experiencedd said:

Its a painful insult delivered numerous times and it grieves his Mom (my old college roomie) every time he brings it up.

Yeah, I agree that a grown man who feels called upon to insult his mother on a regular basis has more issues than being bi-racial. Just as racism is still alive and kicking, so is misogyny, and blaming Mom for whatever goes wrong is a tried and true form of misogyny. Chances are that if his Mom had been black, he still would have found some way to blame her for his not being the man he wishes he were.

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JesusFightClub said:

LOL. To be honest, my main reason for finding furries somewhat icky is that so much of their garb is polyester. To me, polyester fur + sex = gross. But I guess that's true of non-furry sex too. Anyway, not my problem since I'm certainly not going to be in the room when it's happening.

I agree with Bolting, its the polyester, and the fact that dry cleaning of furry wear is expensive and perhaps is a few and far between event.

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What about culture?

Oh please. Culture is lost between generations anyways, especially where there is immigration, or hell-moving between states. I don't really see the point in that argument.

I'm half Chinese and half European soup (German, British, and Scottish). I couldn't tell you what it means to be "Chinese" anymore than I could tell you what it means to be "German", "British" or "Scottish".

It doesn't really bother me either. I'm "American".

...What does (sometimes) bother me is that 99.9999999% of people are too stupid to figure out my ethnicity. I've gotten: Jewish, Tahitian, Indian, Native American....it's kind of irritating. I think I look like a mix of Chinese and Caucasian heritage. My fellow Chinese and Caucasian buddies look like me.

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I have a good girlfriend who is black, and she is against it in theory because she feels that more successful black men are marrying white women and leaving black women without a lot of options. That seems like a valid criticism to me, coming from a member of a minority community.

But that IS racism. Why does she have to marry a black man? Why is it leaving the women less options- there are men of every color out there.

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I think a biracial couple who were both born in the US probably have as much in common as any other couple. I could see culture being a factor if you are marrying someone from another country, but people of various races live, work, go to school together where I live.

Also, no one complains about the "morality" of an American marrying a British person. Two people who have more cultural differences than the average multiracial family.

eta: About my friend, I think black man/white woman is far more common than white man/black woman, so there is a bit of an imbalance. At least, where we live it is. I think this will change in the next generation or so.

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eta: About my friend, I think black man/white woman is far more common than white man/black woman, so there is a bit of an imbalance. At least, where we live it is. I think this will change in the next generation or so.

But does she really want a guy who chose her as a consolation price, because it wasn't "right" to date somebody of another race?

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Personally, I am against the marriage of tall people to short people. It is really hard to get an attractive family photo and dancing is damn near impossible. Seems to only work when naked and often at least one party horizontal. But even then, it is inconvenient and certain... erm....positions are just a no-can-do.

The children can turn out to be any height at all. It can be very confusing to be taller than one's mother or father when you are only 8. And what if a boy ends up shorter that his mother? Other kids will make fun of him.

Yup, I am a heightist. We should outlaw interheight marriage.

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But does she really want a guy who chose her as a consolation price, because it wasn't "right" to date somebody of another race?

No, I think she is just concerned about the state of her minority community in the midst of huge social change. That's not racism in my opinion. She is of the oppressed, not of the oppressor.

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No, I think she is just concerned about the state of her minority community in the midst of huge social change. That's not racism in my opinion. She is of the oppressed, not of the oppressor.

You can be racially oppressed and a racist. It's not a one way street.

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But that IS racism. Why does she have to marry a black man? Why is it leaving the women less options- there are men of every color out there.

Opposition to interracial marriage has always interested me, because I'm the product of multiple ones. My grandmother on my dad's side is Irish-Italian. She married a black man and her family disowned her. So she has two biracial sons, one of which is my dad (who is a STRONG man, in regards to what experiencedd said. She did a fine job raising them both, largely on her own). And then my dad, who at first glance looks white, married my mom, who's black. So anyway, it's always been a subject of great interest to me.

First off, let me say the "Think of the CHILDREN!!!11!1!" thing is BS, in my experience. Kids get teased about everything. I never got anything about being biracial, specifically, but I would get sneers from some black girls about "acting white". Whatever, I always brushed it off. Most interracial kids I know turned out fine, as far as I know. So yeah, I think any opposition to interracial marriage comes from racism, plain and simple.

As for this post, I have to agree with Wolfie and samuraisarah. There's a YouTube blogger I used to watch, but he made me so angry I had to stop. He was all about the "white women stealing black men" ideology. He would even go so far as to say black people who have interracial relationships must hate themselves. I find that attitude highly offensive. I don't see the problem with my falling in love with a white or Hispanic man. I'm particularly attracted to Hispanics. I don't feel that I have any claim on "good black men" in the world just because I happen to be part black, just as I don't think white men have any sort of claim on white women. Why can't people just marry who they love without it being questioned?

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No, I think she is just concerned about the state of her minority community in the midst of huge social change. That's not racism in my opinion. She is of the oppressed, not of the oppressor.

I don't think it's racism either, exactly, but definitely a defensive response to perceived (and very possibly real and pervasive) racism. Black women have historically been essentially the most mistreated minority in America, so I can understand your friend's frustration. I think there is also a really negative stereotype about black men as husbands or partners, hence the implication that once they're upwardly mobile, socially and economically, they opt for white women (theoretically furthering their rise) is doubly hurtful to black women when typically, white men don't partner with black women in the same proportions.

Holy run-on sentence, Batman! (Sorry!)

Edited to add - I do think people are going to need to come to terms, on a macro level, with interracial marriage. Whites are expected to be in the minority in the not-too-distant future. I think that racial mixing is only going to become more common and in a country like America, I'm not sure if the distinctions will always be as pronounced (again, this is thinking in macros and in the future). But that doesn't make it any easier for a single black woman who is living in the here and now as an individual.

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I tend to avoid debates like the one on that board because I become irrationally angry and begin to froth at the mouth. My in-laws used an argument along the lines of, "There are so few good Pakistani men here in the West for "our" girls to marry. You really should try to find one of them instead of marrying that white girl." The irony is they hand picked their son-in-law and that marriage fell apart in 3 years. Meanwhile our marriage is still going strong and gets better every day.

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I am not against interracial marriage or any consensual adult marriage. I had added that bit about my friend as a side note and it became an issue. My intended meaning was: white people who are against interracial marriage are by necessity racist. Minorities, maybe they have other concerns.

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I personally didn't take your posts as saying you were against interracial marriage. But you brought up a view from the minority side of this issue, so I think it's good to tackle it from both sides. I just think your friend's views, while maybe not racist necessarily, are still problematic. Imo, that attitude says black women 'deserve' black men, therefore those black men should be shamed if they happen to marry outside their race. I don't think that's valid at all.

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This is one of those things that just drives me nuts! My dad basically said the same thing when I was dating my now husband. He and his family always said they weren't racist, but they didn't think a white woman should marry anyone but a white man. To me, that is racist.

For back ground info, I am white, my husband is asian. My dad was as redneck as they get, and I grew up in the deep south. I heard every racial slur in the book uttered from my dad's mouth growing up. Somehow he never had the influence over me, but boy was he angry when I started dating my DH. He never got a chance to meet his grandchild before he died, which is a good thing, considering one of his "non racist" remarks was - "I don't want any slant eyed grandbabies."

Yes, in my honest opinion you can't be against interracial marriage and not be racist. I don't care what color skin, or race the person my daughter marries is, for that matter, what gender either if that were to happen, as long as she is happy and the treat her well.

I always said my dad would have rather me marry someone who beat me, then someone who was not white, and that is wrong!

Just had to vent. LOL

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I agree, wtfrenchtoast, it is problematic because interracial families need acceptance from all sides. I think that anxiety will clear up organically; as we become more used to interracial marriage and less segregated, it won't be an issue.

Except among racists, of course. I think there will still be white people protesting in a few decades, but it will a very small minority opinion that is heavily stigmatized in everyday society.

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I always said my dad would have rather me marry someone who beat me, then someone who was not white, and that is wrong!

I feel your pain as my father is similar. When I was 6 years old, he told me he'd disown my if I ever dated a black guy. I really, really enjoyed telling him all about the black girl I was dating in high school.

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I have a good girlfriend who is black, and she is against it in theory because she feels that more successful black men are marrying white women and leaving black women without a lot of options. That seems like a valid criticism to me, coming from a member of a minority community.

I had the self same conversation with a black woman I used to work with after we saw a photo of a local black sports star and his white wife in the newspaper. She didn't mind him being married to a white woman as such, her objection was that it seemed to her that 'successful' black men viewed white women as trophies; a sign that they had arrived (for want of a better expression) and that pissed her, as a black woman, off and made her feel second best.

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I had the self same conversation with a black woman I used to work with after we saw a photo of a local black sports star and his white wife in the newspaper. She didn't mind him being married to a white woman as such, her objection was that it seemed to her that 'successful' black men viewed white women as trophies; a sign that they had arrived (for want of a better expression) and that pissed her, as a black woman, off and made her feel second best.

ItIsJustMe, I think you friend's explanation is closer to what many black women feel. They worry that they are automatically excluded because they think that they will not be considered good enough. It isnt that he is with a white woman, it is the fear that he thinks he can only be with a white woman to be considered truly successful.

As a black woman, I could care less if a black man dates a white woman. Personally, I have never understood why I should care since it in no way effects me. Some women act act as though if a black man was not with the white woman, he would be with them. The reality is that if he was with a black woman it is likely that they would find something else wrong with her, i.e., she is fat, ugly or snobby. A lot of this is just a jealous aspect. This is not limited black women, this happens in every race.

I was raised to believe that if you can find love, embrace it regardless of the color. It is too hard to find to just throw away based on archaic beliefs. I have never bought the losing your culture argument. I grew up in California. My childhood was pretty much the same as my other race friends. The only difference is that we may have had different things for dinner. My culture is based on my life with my family and friends, which has nothing to do with race. It is probably not much different from everyone else's.

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I don't think it's racism either, exactly, but definitely a defensive response to perceived (and very possibly real and pervasive) racism. Black women have historically been essentially the most mistreated minority in America, so I can understand your friend's frustration. I think there is also a really negative stereotype about black men as husbands or partners, hence the implication that once they're upwardly mobile, socially and economically, they opt for white women (theoretically furthering their rise) is doubly hurtful to black women when typically, white men don't partner with black women in the same proportions.

This.

When I was in high school I was always harrassed for "acting white" which didn't really bother me. I'd just been raised differently than most of the black kids at my school. People often accused me of "selling out" when I dated white guys, and that hurt, because at the time, white boys were the only boys I knew that liked the same things that I did. Honestly, I'll take any good looking guy of any race who wants to listen to Nirvana and debate class struggle with me :lol:

But I do remember when I was 16, I really liked this black guy. He had the locker right next to mine and we talked every day. We were into the same music and took the same classes. And he dated white girls with. out. fail. So it was kind of upsetting for little ol' me to stand there like, "Hey! We're just the same! What could she possibly have that I don't?!" So while I don't think that I have a claim on black men just because I'm black (and vice versa), I can see how it's upsetting to some black women who I guess feel that they're on the same "level" as certain black men.

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I agree, wtfrenchtoast, it is problematic because interracial families need acceptance from all sides. I think that anxiety will clear up organically; as we become more used to interracial marriage and less segregated, it won't be an issue.

I think, and hope so too! And sorry, I wasn't calling you, or your friend racist. I was trying to make a point about the sense of entitlement I experienced, and didn't do that very well. :oops:

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If you follow the "kids will be teased" argument through to its logical conclusion, we shouldn't allow overweight people, people with glasses, poor people, high school dropouts, and people with accents, to marry, just to name a few.

It's a moronic argument.

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Only one argument against an interracial couple's marriage ever made sense to me. They were two naive, sheltered young people who did not seem to understand that the whole country was not like their neighborhood. They pooh-poohed the notion that they would ever encounter bigotry in their enlightened decade. This was just one example of their general insistence that if they were just nice enough, the whole world would be nice in return. I have no idea what happened to them; hopefully their marriage weathered the inevitable storms.

For foreign readers, here are some basic benefits available in most parts of the US:

*UI, unemployment insurance. If you pay taxes on earned income, you can get a UI benefit if you lose your job. It replaces part of your monthly income. It runs out after a while. This is supposed to encourage people to get out there and find another job. If no job can be found, well, uh . . .

*TANF, Temporary Assistance to Needy Families, which is what people nowadays mean when they say "welfare." Only available if you have kids at home. Runs out. You are bugged and bugged to get a job and if you can't, there must be something wrong with you.

*WIC, Women Infants and Children. Provides vouchers that can be turned in at grocery stores for the foods listed on the vouchers, plus a small amount of money for fruits and vegetables. Pregnant women, nursing mothers, and children under age 5 are eligible for WIC if they have low incomes and demonstrate nutritional need. The food list is supposed to fill in the most common nutritional gaps for children and pregnant and nursing women, not actually feed them completely.

*SNAP, what used to be called food stamps. These days this is usually a debit card. Can be spent on food, but not hot food, or else on garden seeds and tools (and sometimes fishing gear). Never provides enough to feed the people who get it, who need to have a very low income--lower than the cutoff for WIC--to qualify. This is supposed to encourage people to find better jobs. Or something.

*Food banks. These are typically set up by private nonreligious charities or by churches, synagogues, etc. They often receive "commodities" (basic ingredients and some packaged foods) from the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The commodities program has been slashed, of course; we can bail out banks, but God forbid we give somebody too many potatoes. The rest of the food at the food bank comes from donations in kind or donations of money to buy food at quantity discounts. Unfortunately there is a widespread tendency for in-kind donations to be crap. (Got a dented can with no label in the back of the cupboard? Oh, the food bank can use it.) Food banks are also a source of small amounts of toothpaste, diapers, etc., which are not available any other way to families that have no money. Food banks typically pass out a 2-3 day supply of food to each client household once a week. The supply does not constitute a balanced diet, and no program that I know of pays for vitamins.

What's the basic unifying criterion for all of these benefits, except possibly some food banks? The assumption that if you are asking for charity, there is something wrong with you. Being poor is a character fault. It must be punished.

ETA: There is an essential gap here that must be taken into account. To stay out of poverty, that is, to be able to put something away for relatively minor catastrophes* and also for one's old age, a person needs to make $30,000 per year. But the U.S. government puts the official poverty threshold for a family of four at $22,133.

*Severe illness = fucked. My family is slipping out of the middle class right now because our youngest got injured and the bills wiped out our savings, plus nobody at my husband's company has had a raise in 4 years while his group medical insurance benefits package has been steadily downgraded, plus I can't get a job that will pay enough after the cost of child care and transportation to even net me minimum wage. If we just hadn't had to do that medevac, we might still be OK, even in a country that puts people's health in the hands of capitalists. But BOOTSTRAPS. Or something.

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