Being Against Interracial Marriage Isn't Racist

[MandyLaLa]

From a military support forum I frequent. I'll post the first few gems since it's a long thread.

militarysos.com/forum/debates/503265-would-you-consider-racist.html

Would you consider this racist?

I know racism can be a hot topic, so I am treading lightly here.

I am wanting to know if you feel a person would be racist if they feel weird around interracial couples? Why or Why not?

This person has no problem with either race individually, just morally, they can't grasp or can't come to fully embrace interracial couples.

I hope I am explaining it right. The person has no problems with them as people, just as a couple, only reasoning given is morals. Would that be considered racist?

I don't think so. I don't believe that all of those who are against gay marriage for religious or moral reasons are homophobic, so along that lines I don't think people against interracial marriage are necessarily racist.

Agreeing with the last quote:

Took the words right out of my mouth lol!

And then finally reasnable people chime in. This board is horrible about social issues. Poor people using food stamps shouldn't be allowed to buy junk food, the anti-choice are incredibly vocal. And they used to have a religion section, but the christians felt too persecuted by the big ebil atheists so they got rid of it :roll:

[2xx1xy1JD]

What on earth is so "moral" about being against interracial marriage?

If you have some personal weirdness about it, then YOU don't have to have an interracial marriage. That doesn't give you the license to treat others poorly, especially on the basis of physical traits unrelated to their own moral character.

[MandyLaLa]

They also spend a lot of time talking healthcare. Sure you should get the awesome military (government) healthcare (which of course many bitch isn't good enough) but no way in hell should there be health care for everyone.

IMO this one about what low income people on food stamps should be allowed to buy is just :evil:

Bill: No snacks for food stamp users

>Mae Walker uses food stamps to buy what she needs at her neighborhood market.

>She likes the freedom of choosing her favorite snacks and is frustrated lawmakers might limit her options.

>"Cupcakes, soda, candy -- that's food, so why should they do something like that?" Walker said.

>Lawmakers are considering a bill to prevent poorer people from purchasing unhealthy foods with government assistance. As a result, snack foods may be stripped from the list of groceries people on food stamps can buy at the store.

>The bill has already passed through a House subcommittee.

Bill: No snacks for food stamp users | News - Home

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Personally, I'm all for it. Beggars can't be choosers. If you can't feed yourself, don't get all pissy when the government, which in any other age would just let your ass starve to death, tells you what you can and can't eat with money that belongs to it not you. Its not your money so you lose freedom of choice when spending other peoples' money. Stamps (whatever your state calls them) are meant to help you not starve, not buy your ass cupcakes and candy. All areas of the government in every State and on a Federal level are downsizing, this should be no different.

IMO, the food stamp program was created to sustain you, not to pleasure your taste buds. I believe that it should be similar to the WIC program that only certain things are allowed to be purchased. Snack foods are a luxury, not a necessity.

I think it's a great idea. It makes me so mad when my brothers girlfriend buys those juices that are pure sugar for the kids with foodstamps. It isn't nutritious at all. Sticking to the basics would be fairer. Getting things like milk, bread, eggs, produce and a few other things are the only things they should be used for IMO

This topic makes my blood boil, especially since many of them are on WIC. But WIC is far far superior to those dirty poor folks spending my tax dollars on cupcakes. (just typing that was painful)

[SpeshulTaterTot]

I don't understand why anyone would consider interracial relationships immoral.

As for the food stamps... We don't have those here. You get unemployment and use the money to buy what you need. It's just enough for the bare essentials, but if people want to buy chocolate or a bottle of wine from "my" tax dollars, they can go ahead and knock themselves out.

[samurai_sarah]

"I'm not racist, but I consider interracial marriage immoral"...right, being bi-racial, I feel so much better now, and am happy that the poster on that board only considers my family inherently immoral, but thank goodness that's got nothing to do with race, right? Right? Oh, wait, if it weren't for race, that poster wouldn't give a sh*t about my parents' morals.

[Boltingmadonna]

I guess it's not too surprising that some people in a population that probably skews younger, less educated, and from more conservative areas might not grasp the concept of racism. I hear this all the time. People think that if they haven't consciously formed an intention to hate a certain racial group, then they cannot be racist. They don't get that their unconscious, instinctive reactions have been formed by a racist social environment, and therefore, even what they think is just a "natural" reaction can be totally racist.

Thus, they'll say stuff like "Well, I'm not prejudiced against blacks, I just feel they don't work as hard as white people, and that's not racism because it's totally my experience!" Or, "Black people are just loud and act crazy. That's not racism--it's a fact!" Sure, just like women are all over-emotional and bitchy. Just a fact, right? So they don't get that going "ewww" at the thought of a black/white couple isn't a "natural" reaction, but a manifestation of cultural crap that was installed in you by other people, and that you have not yet cleansed out of your brain.

[MandyLaLa]

I guess it's not too surprising that some people in a population that probably skews younger, less educated, and from more conservative areas might not grasp the concept of racism. I hear this all the time. People think that if they haven't consciously formed an intention to hate a certain racial group, then they cannot be racist. They don't get that their unconscious, instinctive reactions have been formed by a racist social environment, and therefore, even what they think is just a "natural" reaction can be totally racist.

Thus, they'll say stuff like "Well, I'm not prejudiced against blacks, I just feel they don't work as hard as white people, and that's not racism because it's totally my experience!" Or, "Black people are just loud and act crazy. That's not racism--it's a fact!" Sure, just like women are all over-emotional and bitchy. Just a fact, right? So they don't get that going "ewww" at the thought of a black/white couple isn't a "natural" reaction, but a manifestation of cultural crap that was installed in you by other people, and that you have not yet cleansed out of your brain.

There are also a lot of young members who rant about reverse-racism and how because they were the only white girl at a "ghetto" school and they got their ass beat. They've experienced reverse racism against them for being *gasp* white.

All of these fucknuts give me no desire to become a military spouse in a few months and move to a military town.

[valsa]

The only reason I can think of to be against interracial marriage is that you're racist. You think there's an inherent difference (and inequality) between the races, so they shouldn't mix. I also don't buy the "I'm against it because their kids will be picked on" excuse.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Stupid question from a non-American: how exactly do food stamps work, and how is it different from WIC?

Can someone on food stamps also get welfare, to pay for non-food essentials?

I hate the tone used in those posts, suggesting that poor people don't have rights and shouldn't want something that tastes good. OTOH, I have trouble considering candy and soda to be "food". If the idea of the program is to make nutrition affordable, targeting assistance to items that have at least some nutrition IN CONJUNCTION with measures to eliminate "food deserts" and ensure access to affordable healthy foods could make sense. It may help combat child obesity, improve school performance, reduce Type 2 diabetes, reduce heart disease and stroke and reduce cancer.

[Alecto]

Interracial marriage was a topic I struggled with when I was younger. I have cousins who are biracial, and had a horrible childhood due to bigoted folks who were both black and white. I don't know if I was ever against it as much as I hated the idea that someone would have to go through the same crap my cousins did. Twenty years ago, there seemed to be a lot more people of all races who were against interracial marriage. I remember African American women being particularly hostile against my aunt, and a lot of kids weren't allowed to play with my cousins because they were biracial. My aunt had white neighbors complain about her honor roll kids vandalizing things... which was completely false. This was in an upper middle class, mixed race area of a large southern city.

Now, I think my previous thoughts are a bit immature (granted I was a teenager) and I understand the world a bit more and understand that you can't live your life to avoid what other folks might say or do. I am glad we live in a time when interracial relationships don't have nearly the stigma they did.

[valsa]

Stupid question from a non-American: how exactly do food stamps work, and how is it different from WIC?

Can someone on food stamps also get welfare, to pay for non-food essentials?

I hate the tone used in those posts, suggesting that poor people don't have rights and shouldn't want something that tastes good. OTOH, I have trouble considering candy and soda to be "food". If the idea of the program is to make nutrition affordable, targeting assistance to items that have at least some nutrition IN CONJUNCTION with measures to eliminate "food deserts" and ensure access to affordable healthy foods could make sense. It may help combat child obesity, improve school performance, reduce Type 2 diabetes, reduce heart disease and stroke and reduce cancer.

Food stamps give you a set amount per month to buy food items with (things like cooked foods (ie- rotisserie chicken you buy already cooked from the store) are not covered) You can get monetary assistance for non-food items but it's harder to qualify for in my state (I am poor enough to get food stamps but not the monetary assistance)

WIC has different guidelines for who is eligible and doesn't cover a lot except the very basic basics (eggs, fortified cereal, infant cereal, milk, cheese, peanut butter, dried beans, canned vegetables, and they have started offering vouchers for farmer's markets)

The problems with limiting people to only buying healthy food are- 1) what counts as healthy foods and who decides, 2) many ready-made foods are less healthy than from-scratch cooking but take much less time to make (very important for the poor single mother working two jobs), and 3) a lot of healthy food costs more than non-healthy food (if they ever ban "unhealthy" food, I hope they plan on increasing food stamp payments)

[2xx1xy1JD]

Food stamps give you a set amount per month to buy food items with (things like cooked foods (ie- rotisserie chicken you buy already cooked from the store) are not covered) You can get monetary assistance for non-food items but it's harder to qualify for in my state (I am poor enough to get food stamps but not the monetary assistance)

WIC has different guidelines for who is eligible and doesn't cover a lot except the very basic basics (eggs, fortified cereal, infant cereal, milk, cheese, peanut butter, dried beans, canned vegetables, and they have started offering vouchers for farmer's markets)

The problems with limiting people to only buying healthy food are- 1) what counts as healthy foods and who decides, 2) many ready-made foods are less healthy than from-scratch cooking but take much less time to make (very important for the poor single mother working two jobs), and 3) a lot of healthy food costs more than non-healthy food (if they ever ban "unhealthy" food, I hope they plan on increasing food stamp payments)

What's the logic behind excluding prepared foods? Rotisserie chicken isn't much more expensive than a whole raw chicken. It's quick, it's reasonably healthy - and it's far superior to frozen chicken nuggets. Cooking a whole chicken at home isn't practical for a working mom during the week unless she has a slow cooker. If someone has limited cooking facilities, prepared foods could be the way to go.

Thinking about it some more, if someone relied on food stamps for their entire food budget, you'd need things like spices and sauces which may not have much nutrition themselves. The only items that you could really exclude would be real non-food foods, like soda, chips and candy.

[frumperlicious]

Ah, the life of a military spouse. I am constantly reminded of that line from "The Blind Side", where Sandra Bullock's character says "I never thought I'd have a black son before I met a Democrat."

Or something like that.

I am the token liberal at military spouse gatherings, and normally I just hold my tongue and drink my beer, but every once in a while I make some (mostly innocuous, really) comment just to see the hackles rise. A majority of O-5 and above wives seems to make it more likely I will inject my Godless, liberal point of view, I don't know why that is...

Take heart- we're out there, Mandy La-La. Look for the beer-drinking, eye rolling woman in the back of the room who looks like she'd rather be anywhere else.

[slickcat79]

What's the logic behind excluding prepared foods? Rotisserie chicken isn't much more expensive than a whole raw chicken. It's quick, it's reasonably healthy - and it's far superior to frozen chicken nuggets. Cooking a whole chicken at home isn't practical for a working mom during the week unless she has a slow cooker. If someone has limited cooking facilities, prepared foods could be the way to go.

Thinking about it some more, if someone relied on food stamps for their entire food budget, you'd need things like spices and sauces which may not have much nutrition themselves. The only items that you could really exclude would be real non-food foods, like soda, chips and candy.

I think that's part of the issue, and one of the reasons lots of people end up buying things like chips and soda with their benefits. You've also got an issue of transportation; if you can't get to a grocery store and you're stuck buying your food at a drugs store or convenience store, you have higher prices and a smaller selection of generally less nutritious food. Government programs are typically very slow to react to the ways that people live and work and get by in the real world. They're trying to figure out a way to combat rising prices and abuse of the system, and I'm not sure there's an easy answer.

[valsa]

What's the logic behind excluding prepared foods? Rotisserie chicken isn't much more expensive than a whole raw chicken. It's quick, it's reasonably healthy - and it's far superior to frozen chicken nuggets. Cooking a whole chicken at home isn't practical for a working mom during the week unless she has a slow cooker. If someone has limited cooking facilities, prepared foods could be the way to go.

Thinking about it some more, if someone relied on food stamps for their entire food budget, you'd need things like spices and sauces which may not have much nutrition themselves. The only items that you could really exclude would be real non-food foods, like soda, chips and candy.

I don't know why they don't allow prepared food (I've heard something vaguely about not allowing any deli food because you could conceivably eat it in the store, making it "fast food", which doesn't make much sense to me)

As someone who uses foodstamps, I don't support them excluding even pop, chips, or candy. I eat sandwiches for lunch and always eat chips or Cheese Its or something similar with it. I don't know what I'd eat along with my sandwich if not chips. Likewise, I eat either a cookie or candy (or sometimes donuts) as dessert after dinner.

Quite like people have this idea of a welfare queen sitting around mooching of society, they also have a mental picture of people on foodstamps buying nothing but cookies and chips and pop. The fact is that most people on foodstamps buy this junk food in moderation, just like most other people.

[MandyLaLa]

Ah, the life of a military spouse. I am constantly reminded of that line from "The Blind Side", where Sandra Bullock's character says "I never thought I'd have a black son before I met a Democrat."

Or something like that.

I am the token liberal at military spouse gatherings, and normally I just hold my tongue and drink my beer, but every once in a while I make some (mostly innocuous, really) comment just to see the hackles rise. A majority of O-5 and above wives seems to make it more likely I will inject my Godless, liberal point of view, I don't know why that is...

Take heart- we're out there, Mandy La-La. Look for the beer-drinking, eye rolling woman in the back of the room who looks like she'd rather be anywhere else.

I've found a few over my Internet years. Though it wasn't easy. I just hate that when I say I'm a military significant other I must love Bush and war and think repealing DADT was just henious to troop moral. Major eye roll.

And a major amen to Valsa, I might buy an occasional snarky food. But let's be honest what I get a month $200 isn't enough to buy fresh fruit and veggies for every meal every day.

The ugliest debate about food stamps on that site was from an article proposing that the homeless who receive food aid should be allowed to buy prepared food. Since ya know they don't have a kitchen to cook in. But why would we ever actually want to help the poor.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

You can't buy prepared foods (hot foods, usually) because there's a rule in there designed to prevent people from using food stamps on restaurant food.

So usually you can buy the rotisserie chickens at the supermarket, BUT they have to be the chilled ones, cooked and then packaged up chilled to be taken home, rather than the ones that are still hot on the rotisserie and able to be eaten warm right away.

That sort of "wait...wut?" rule is what happens when people try to make "obvious" rules about food stamp usage. The suggested "no junk food!" probably sounds "obvious" to plenty of people, but when you look into it the application would be difficult and expensive. I mean, if cupcakes are clearly beyond the pale forbidden, how about tea bread? Coffee cake? If cookies are right out, what about crackers? How about those crackers with cheese powder on 'em? If you're going to allow those, why not Doritos? Etc etc ETC. Is beef jerky meat?

Very often people suggest the "no junk food with my tax dollars!!" thing as a way to save money, but policing it would end up taking more money. The people who still insist that it's worth it, that the policing must happen, usually don't really have cost savings in mind at all from the beginning.

You want some fun, remind some of the specifically right-winger loud annoying military wives ranting on about big government that their husbands are public employees... federal ones even, not just state! :D

[Conuly]

Thinking about it some more, if someone relied on food stamps for their entire food budget, you'd need things like spices and sauces which may not have much nutrition themselves.

In NYS, at least, you can buy spices and such with your food stamps. You can use food stamps (which obviously aren't "stamps" anymore, but a card) at the farmer's market, and you can even use them to purchase seeds or seedlings for food plants.

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/retailers/eligible.htm

http://urbanareas.net/info/_resources_food_stamps.php

[desertvixen]

This topic makes my blood boil, especially since many of them are on WIC. But WIC is far far superior to those dirty poor folks spending my tax dollars on cupcakes. (just typing that was painful)

I hate this. WIC = welfare, only people who've used it and are against welfare never see it that way.

And when do all these people have time to be judgmental about everyone else's carts?

Mandy LaLa, I assure you there are spouses/military members who aren't crazed. frumperlicious, I'm probably standing in the back with you. (military member and hopefully once-again military spouse)

[Trynn]

Uh huh. Interracial marriages don't have anything to do with race....what?

[MandyLaLa]

You want some fun, remind some of the specifically right-winger loud annoying military wives ranting on about big government that their husbands are public employees... federal ones even, not just state! :D

Don't you dare ever tell them that they get benefits from the government, because their heroes work for those benefits so they DESERVE them and it's totally not the same thing :naughty:

The entitlement and severely inflated egos of a lot of military spouses is just atrocious.

[justlurking]

Food stamps give you a set amount per month to buy food items with (things like cooked foods (ie- rotisserie chicken you buy already cooked from the store) are not covered) You can get monetary assistance for non-food items but it's harder to qualify for in my state (I am poor enough to get food stamps but not the monetary assistance)

WIC has different guidelines for who is eligible and doesn't cover a lot except the very basic basics (eggs, fortified cereal, infant cereal, milk, cheese, peanut butter, dried beans, canned vegetables, and they have started offering vouchers for farmer's markets)

The problems with limiting people to only buying healthy food are- 1) what counts as healthy foods and who decides, 2) many ready-made foods are less healthy than from-scratch cooking but take much less time to make (very important for the poor single mother working two jobs), and 3) a lot of healthy food costs more than non-healthy food (if they ever ban "unhealthy" food, I hope they plan on increasing food stamp payments)

WIC is also only available to pregnant women or women with with children 5 years old and younger who are "at nutritional risk". A single woman without children would not be eligible for WIC, but she might be eligible for food stamps depending on her income. Many women who qualify for WIC also qualify for food stamps, so they're able to supplement the additional items they can't receive through WIC by purchasing the rest in food stamps.

[emmiedahl]

The food stamp rules in my area (and I think all over the US) are "no hot foods and no foods packaged to be eaten immediately." So no Subway. You can get a chilled rotisserie chicken but not a hot one--which unfortunately could be a healthy, frugal and quick meal for a family. I have tried to buy the cold ones and heat them; it takes a while and also dries them out so they are not very tasty.

I have two issues with restricting the purchases of food stamp users:

1. People think that food stamp users are buying so many luxury foods, but most don't. Isn't the average amount something like $23 per week per person? I get $400 a month for a family of seven; that is not extravagant. It's usually enough for a very basic healthy diet, when combined with WIC. A lot of people on food stamps still have to frequent food banks.

2. A certain amount of unhealthy food is healthy and necessary. I need oil and butter to cook with, crackers and snacks for children, cupcakes for the occasional class party. If I can budget a very small grocery budget to allow for these things in addition to healthy meals, isn't that a *good* thing? And what is a luxury food? I buy berries, avocados, spices and other "luxury foods" when they are a reasonable price. No one bats an eyelash if you buy crackers with food stamps, but be prepared for eye rolling if you buy blueberries.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Also the mechanics of WIC (at least here in Illinois) are very different from "food stamps."

"Food stamps" have long since morphed into the "Illinois Link Card" which works like a debit card. There are certain categories of items you can't buy with it (cleaning products, alcohol) but it basically works like money.

WIC, on the other hand, is all about voucher coupons that you need to match up to the individual items you're buying. WIC is much more restrictive. But some of the WIC qualifying rules can be downright crazy too - you can buy baby food on it, but be careful!!! Not ALL baby food is eligible. I got stuck behind someone using WIC to buy baby food, both she and the cashier were really confused why some cans were being rejected, until they realized that the single-fruit baby foods were passing, while the mixed fruit ones, for whatever reason, weren't. Why, I have no idea - it was all 100% pure pureed fruit nutritious baby food. I guess if you mix the apple and pear it's decadent snacking or something...

If you're in a hurry, you don't want to get in line behind someone who is a n00b at WIC (either the shopper or the cashier). It can be closer to extreme couponer type experience.

[MadameX]

The anti-interracial marriage thing surprises me, considering how common it is in the military. At least, in the Marines it seems to be.

Regarding buying junk food with government assistance, if you raise kids in a public school system which considers pizza and ketchup a vegetable, what do you expect them to buy when they're adults?