What was Adam and Eve's sin?

[Ralar]

Caption: Its true that I didn't make you as smart as woman, so here's a little something to do your thinking for you!

[Lainey]

Just out of curiosity, what was the justification for the sex thing?

It was basically that "eating the fruit (assumed to be an apple)" was a euphemism for "having sex." I don't know, but I suspect it ties into the idea that sex is taboo. Like, if that's the "worst" thing you can do, what else could the original sin mean? Obviously it must mean having sex, since that's the worst thing you could possibly do (I'm not saying this is well-thought-out AT ALL).

Other than that, I really have no idea. I would be interested if anyone else has any insight on this--I know my family isn't the only one that sees it this way. I'd ask if it's a Catholic thing, but my Protestant relatives believe the same thing, as far as I know.

[emmiedahl]

I've never heard it and I am married to teh Catholics. But my husband and his family are the Italian type that is more culturally so, less dogmatic.

[Kaylee]

I've always understood it to be disobedience and trying to become gods or like God.

It's weird that someone else was taught the sex thing. I've only heard it from the "Serpent Seed" crowd, who get all sorts of crazy with it - they teach that Eve had sex with Satan (the serpent) and that that is where Cain and his descendants came from). The rationale is that the word translated "beguiled" or tricked where the serpent beguiled/deceived Eve either can mean or is similar to the Hebrew word for seduced (I don't know Hebrew, so I don't know if this is try or is the product of some dude with a KJV and a Strong's concordance twisting words around).

eta: In light of AmyP's post, I thought I might need to add that those teaching were not in a Calvinist or Baptist church, they were in basically a cultic group, similar to the Messianic wannabe-Jews but with a pretty nasty racist bent t it.

[AmyP]

Off the top of my head, I would say a combination of discontent, disobedience, and the desire to be like God.

I have no idea why anyone would think it was sex. That is not a Calvinist position on the matter (that I know of).

[Lainey]

I've never heard it and I am married to teh Catholics. But my husband and his family are the Italian type that is more culturally so, less dogmatic.

Mine are also the Italian type. They aren't even particularly religious. They are, however, extremely weird about sex, and that seems to be all that they took out of religion (don't do it). All that love your neighbour and stuff? Be charitable? They just ignore that part.

[thoughtful]

There is certainly a lot of diversity in Jewish though ("two Jews, three opinions") but I have never met a Jew who believed in original sin as defined by Christianity.

My understanding is that this concept was introduced later in Christian history to explain the need for Jesus. He ended up to not be the Messiah by Jewish rules, so a new rule had to be made. Instead of defining the Messiah as a political liberator, the Christian church began defining him as a spiritual liberator. This would not jive with the Jewish belief that we are born just fine the first time, so the concept of original sin was derived to be the thing that Jesus saved Christians from.

This.

[ItISjustme]

There is certainly a lot of diversity in Jewish though ("two Jews, three opinions") but I have never met a Jew who believed in original sin as defined by Christianity.

My understanding is that this concept was introduced later in Christian history to explain the need for Jesus. He ended up to not be the Messiah by Jewish rules, so a new rule had to be made. Instead of defining the Messiah as a political liberator, the Christian church began defining him as a spiritual liberator. This would not jive with the Jewish belief that we are born just fine the first time, so the concept of original sin was derived to be the thing that Jesus saved Christians from.

That's what I've been led to believe too. The concept of original sin didn't emerge until about the 2nd or 3rd century after Christ.

It doesn't matter what the 'sin' was, in my opnion, the eternal truth of this story is that it's always the woman who gets the blame.

[finleeport]

I've always understood it to be disobedience and trying to become gods or like God.

It's weird that someone else was taught the sex thing. I've only heard it from the "Serpent Seed" crowd, who get all sorts of crazy with it - they teach that Eve had sex with Satan (the serpent) and that that is where Cain and his descendants came from). The rationale is that the word translated "beguiled" or tricked where the serpent beguiled/deceived Eve either can mean or is similar to the Hebrew word for seduced (I don't know Hebrew, so I don't know if this is try or is the product of some dude with a KJV and a Strong's concordance twisting words around).

eta: In light of AmyP's post, I thought I might need to add that those teaching were not in a Calvinist or Baptist church, they were in basically a cultic group, similar to the Messianic wannabe-Jews but with a pretty nasty racist bent t it.

Now that doesn't sound right to me. From my upbringing, the devil doesn't have seed, God and the Devil don't even have genders (even though they're portrayed and written as male). Also I was taught that demons/devils can't procreate, they are spirits of destruction and sterility, and they cannot create anything, only copy and twist illusions.

[dawbs]

Now that doesn't sound right to me. From my upbringing, the devil doesn't have seed, God and the Devil don't even have genders (even though they're portrayed and written as male). Also I was taught that demons/devils can't procreate, they are spirits of destruction and sterility, and they cannot create anything, only copy and twist illusions.

But...right before the flood, the bible talks about procreating w/ supernatural beings.

(I've never heard of Eve's sex w/ the devil leading to Cain--although the racist bent does remind me that 'non-white' skin has been sometimes considered to be the mark of Cain :x )

*off to look up my flood stories.

[dawbs]

Genesis 6 is what I was thinking of...that I was taught = angels (and deamons) having sex w/ humans:

Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.....

4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

[finleeport]

Genesis 6 is what I was thinking of...that I was taught = angels (and deamons) having sex w/ humans:

Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.....

4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Your referring to the Nephilim, they were said to be wiped out in the Flood, according to Hebrew mythology.

[Kaylee]

Now that doesn't sound right to me. From my upbringing, the devil doesn't have seed, God and the Devil don't even have genders (even though they're portrayed and written as male). Also I was taught that demons/devils can't procreate, they are spirits of destruction and sterility, and they cannot create anything, only copy and twist illusions.

I agree with you, which is why I described that whole idea as "all sorts of crazy".

They keep it on the down-low to some degree, but this is what Shepard's Chapel teaches. The old guy that reads the Bible on about a billion satellite and cable access channels in the wee hours of the morning. They call these offspring Kenites. There are a few other cultic groups that teach the same thing, or a variation of it. Aryan Nations and similar groups also teach it, with a racial twist (ie, white people are the real Israelites, and the Kenites/devil spawn are the Jews). Again, I do not believe this, but I grew up around it and it always catches my attention when I hear it coming up in somewhat mainstream churches, because I wonder if they realize who else teaches the same doctrine and why.

[Lainey]

Just to be clear, my family doesn't believe that Eve had sex with the serpent (at least, as far as I know). They believe that the very fact that she had sex with Adam was the original sin. I don't know how they get around the "go forth and multiply" bit. I'd ask them, but they usually just get annoyed and look at me funny if I point out that that doesn't make any sense. By "they," I mean mostly my mom. My grandma used to be like that and used to give me bibles because she knew I wasn't religious :roll: , but then my uncle died (her son) and now I think she doesn't believe anymore. I know she doesn't believe the same way, at least. She did, however, keep the anti-sex beliefs. Again, as far as I know. I can't see her ever giving up on that one.

I've heard the "serpent seed" thing before, but that was on the internet.

[dawbs]

Your referring to the Nephilim, they were said to be wiped out in the Flood, according to Hebrew mythology.

Yeah, them

But wouldn't that directly contradict 'demons don't have sperm' argument?

[finleeport]

I agree with you, which is why I described that whole idea as "all sorts of crazy".

They keep it on the down-low to some degree, but this is what Shepard's Chapel teaches. The old guy that reads the Bible on about a billion satellite and cable access channels in the wee hours of the morning. They call these offspring Kenites. There are a few other cultic groups that teach the same thing, or a variation of it. Aryan Nations and similar groups also teach it, with a racial twist (ie, white people are the real Israelites, and the Kenites/devil spawn are the Jews). Again, I do not believe this, but I grew up around it and it always catches my attention when I hear it coming up in somewhat mainstream churches, because I wonder if they realize who else teaches the same doctrine and why.

But the Kenites were coppersmiths and metalworkers in the Bible, and Yahweh was said to be their God.

Do you perhaps mean Cainites?

[finleeport]

Yeah, them

But wouldn't that directly contradict 'demons don't have sperm' argument?

They weren't demons, they were Giants. Totally different. Actually the Fathers of the Nephilim were the Grigori, the Watchers.

[thoughtful]

Your referring to the Nephilim, they were said to be wiped out in the Flood, according to Hebrew mythology.

But, according to this thread:

http://www.freejinger.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7549

they were in the Superbowl half-time show! :lol: