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Being saved....


alysee

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I was raised in mostly Methodist Churches and the concept of getting saved was always praying for God to enter your heart and telling him that you believed that he sent his son to die on the cross and live again so that all of us can be saved and join God in heaven in the afterlife. I have been "saved" this way twice and while I was told that there will be an immediate difference, I never really felt it. I do believe in God or I should say I believe there is a higher being of intelligence than myself and humanity. Call it God as I do, Goddess, Allah, The Great Spirit or a higher power, whatever, many gods and goddesses, I believe there is something greater. I go to a non-demon church and while it's sort of the same in the way of salvation, it's a bit varied with four different pastors as to how it works. I have never been baptised and I would like to be just to say I am. Some people believe baptism is what saves you. It's also why some people claim I am not "truly saved" and that's why I never, yes I apparently never, understood what it was like to be saved. I'm sure I was quite convinced in my younger years.

I don't really believe in the dying for sins thing really anymore and even in my strong fundie days it never made sense and I rationalized it then that God sent himself here to walk among us and live as a commoner so he would relate to humanity better, but since he was God, it was only part of himself that he sent down. I rationalized that God's humanity form was killed and he of course went back to heaven. Silly rationalization, but I refused to stop believing in Jesus because I believed I would go to hell if I did and who wants that?

As for heaven, no one knows where it is, just somewhere unseen. I also took heaven as just some form of an afterlife-where the soul goes. Where it is or what happens is like asking if ghosts are real? I've never seen a ghost so I can't fathom their existence, but I know people personally who swear up and down they have seen them. It's up to you whether you want to believe in an afterlife of some form. It doesn't have to be the Biblical version of heaven. Some people believe in reincarnation instead. To believe in a higher being doesn't require you to believe in an afterlife or heaven. :D

Simple answer: There isn't a specific way to be saved so I guess if you believe in something greater, that's enough, along with being a generally decent person. That is, in response to the fact that you want to believe again. There's nothing wrong with wanting to believe in something. I hope you find the beliefs that make you happy.

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I find it comforting to contemplate the existence of a God-man who not only experienced human frailty but did so at the cost of his life – an individual who gave up any access to power in the end and became thoroughly mortal and as afraid of his mortality - “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?†- as any other person.

Theologian Marcus Borg argues Jesus didn't describe himself as a divine figure – at least not in the same sense as the Bible currently describes him. Those words calling Jesus the Door and the Bread of Life, although attributed to him, were actually the voice of his community after he was gone.

His impact on them was so profound that members of his community came to see his sacrifice as being the one by which they could enter Paradise without needing to pay a human mediator.

It was a kind of religious evolution, and Jesus was the catalyst for it.

No longer would people need to shed the innocent blood of animals to atone for their own guilty blood. No longer would women and people with disabilities be denied entrance to the Temple Court of Israel, and nor would the Holy of Holies be for the High Priest alone: “And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.†-- Matthew 27:50-51

This act opened the faith for everyone, such that, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.†-- Galatians 3:28

The Temple is for everyone, now, and access is granted universally.

The Book of James (as well as Matthew 25:31-46 and other passages) makes it clear people still have to account for what they do, and for what fail to do. This allows for just punishments and rewards, but the punishments aren't eternal whereas the reconciliation is.

In my view, people aren't “saved,†except for from potential mistakes borne of the evil impulse, but rather people are reconciled.

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I find it comforting to contemplate the existence of a God-man who not only experienced human frailty but did so at the cost of his life – an individual who gave up any access to power in the end and became thoroughly mortal and as afraid of his mortality - “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?†- as any other person.

Theologian Marcus Borg argues Jesus didn't describe himself as a divine figure – at least not in the same sense as the Bible currently describes him. Those words calling Jesus the Door and the Bread of Life, although attributed to him, were actually the voice of his community after he was gone.

His impact on them was so profound that members of his community came to see his sacrifice as being the one by which they could enter Paradise without needing to pay a human mediator.

It was a kind of religious evolution, and Jesus was the catalyst for it.

No longer would people need to shed the innocent blood of animals to atone for their own guilty blood. No longer would women and people with disabilities be denied entrance to the Temple Court of Israel, and nor would the Holy of Holies be for the High Priest alone: “And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.†-- Matthew 27:50-51

This act opened the faith for everyone, such that, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.†-- Galatians 3:28

The Temple is for everyone, now, and access is granted universally.

The Book of James (as well as Matthew 25:31-46 and other passages) makes it clear people still have to account for what they do, and for what fail to do. This allows for just punishments and rewards, but the punishments aren't eternal whereas the reconciliation is.

In my view, people aren't “saved,†except for from potential mistakes borne of the evil impulse, but rather people are reconciled.

But then what's the point of God then? If you don't believe in a Heaven or Hell then what's the point in believing in a God? Why do others believe in him? Too many questions...

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My post was no to condemn, it was to explain. Someone asked what it was to be saved so I told what the Bible says about it, not my opinion.

If you read the Bible in its entirety you will see that it doesn't teach calvinism but a whosoever will gospel.

No, that IS your opinion. The Bible is not a rule book with clear-cut explanations... there are many, many different reasonable and logical interpretations to the stories, verses, and issues. Many people who believe in Calvinism have read the Bible in its entirety and still believe in it.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, one of the times Jesus mentions being saved is in context with baptism, water and Holy Spirit, and ends the verse by saying if you aren't baptized, you will not be saved (and yes, there are churches that believe both).

To the OP: Many times I have noticed that people are concerned about salvation due to fear... of hell, of God's vengeance, of not being with loved ones in heaven when we die, etc. Personally I think that's a dangerous way to make decisions about religion and spirituality -- it doesn't take much research to figure out that cults and authoritarian structures (not to mention politicians) in our society use fear to influence people's behavior.

FWIW, I am Christian.

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But then what's the point of God then? If you don't believe in a Heaven or Hell then what's the point in believing in a God? Why do others believe in him? Too many questions...

Ding ding ding! Alysee, that question was how I began what I consider my adult spiritual journey -- what is the point of Christianity if there is no heaven or hell, or if we cease to exist after we die? MARVELOUS question. What would be your answers (in all seriousness).

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My post was no to condemn, it was to explain. Someone asked what it was to be saved so I told what the Bible says about it, not my opinion.

If you read the Bible in its entirety you will see that it doesn't teach calvinism but a whosoever will gospel.

You did the same thing without realizing it. You picked out some verses that support faith alone without studying the bible to see that there are many verses that dispute it. There are verses that support Calvinism, and there are verses that dispute it. The latter is okay with you because it's not what you believe, but the first isn't okay with you. You can't do that. The trouble with people who call themselves bible believing Christians is that they disregard the words from the God they claim to worship. If Jesus himself came down and told them that they were wrong, these people would whip out a bible and argue with him. Study his words for yourself. They were pretty clear cut. He doesn't want you or anyone else to hate gays. He wants you to love one another. He also wants you to help others, and he told you that if you don't, you will go to hell. Study his words. Study original Hebrew and Greek, and the translations. But you won't. Most bible believing Christians won't.

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I personally do not believe in a Christian God, so being saved is just a myth to me, but...

I've always thought there is a conflict in the Bible between the gospels and the epistles. At least, there is the way I read them. Jesus seems to say that how you act is pretty darn important to being saved, and most people are going to fail to reach heaven, because they will not be willing to make the sacrifices necessary to truly follow God. On the other hand, the epistles preach faith over acts, and that seems to be more popular for obvious reasons. If I followed the faith, I'd be inclined to listen to Jesus. Of course, you can argue that someone like Paul does both (i.e. advocates faith and grace *while* giving up his wealth and social status to live 100% for Jesus).

My mantra is that if anything goes against the words of Jesus, then it needs more studying. By more studying, I mean everything, including translations, original text, bible history, the writer of the book, etc.

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I don't care. Live a good life, surround yourself with friends and family and you won't regret that fact that you have to die at 40, 80 or 100.

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But then what's the point of God then? If you don't believe in a Heaven or Hell then what's the point in believing in a God? Why do others believe in him? Too many questions...

The atheists here don't believe in God and I doubt it's hurt them any.

As for myself, however, I would say that God doesn't need a point. It's a Prime Mover. The force of nature. That which set off the chain of events that caused life.

I also believe in God for more personal, experiential reasons - reasons I wouldn't expect anyone else to accept. (I believe in universal reconciliation for the same sorts of reasons.)

Whether or not God has created an afterlife is irrelevant, I think, to the question of how people should behave. A lot of the earlier Biblical contributors, such as Solomon, did not believe in an afterlife; and Job suggested a similar (lack of) belief when discussing how death is a great equalizer.

If one believes the Bible has a deep bases in truth (and fact mixed with myth), even if she repudiate some of the text (such as the genocide), she can still see and follow the bright highway made of verses about how we dust creatures should treat one another: "He has told you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God?" -- Micah 6:8

Truth is, the questions you're asking can't really be answered by anyone else. Other people can merely tell you what they believe. (I believe God may choose to answer those who ask, but sometimes the answer appears in an unexpected form.)

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I'm not very familiar with being saved, since I was raised Catholic. All I know is, I get a huge kick out of hearing about four-year-olds who have "been saved." Because they definitely understand. :roll:

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Hey Everyone, this is Kristina. I do still read here but have chosen not to comment due to the donations that someone said would be made in my name to a foundation that I did not support. But I have decided to come back due to this post. I have read the replies and from what I have seen, the real meaning of "being saved" has not been told. I want to share what it means according to the Bible and not just opinions.

We all know the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden and how Eve ate of the forbidden fruit and then offered it to Adam. It was through Adam's disobedience to God's command to not eat the forbidden fruit that sin entered into the world.

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

We all know what sin is, lying, stealing, cheating, disobedience and ect. We know that ALL are guilty of sin.

To be saved you have to be under conviction (definition - be convinced, compelled to admit truth) We all have to come to the realization that we are sinners.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Know that without God there is no way you will make it to Heaven on your own by your good works or self righteousness.

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Because of Adam's disobedience we are all sinners and are to suffer the consequences.

Realize what the consequence of sin is.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

No one can make it to Heaven on their own and escape Hell because of their own merit or good works. God requires perfection. Humans, as well all know are far from perfect and therefore there is no way that we can make it into Heaven no matter how much good we do in our lifetime. But Jesus Christ was born perfect and lived a perfect, sinless life. He was chosen to come and die in our stead so that Heaven could be available for any and all. He died for the sins of the whole world's past, present and future sins.

What Jesus did on the cross was for you and He was raised again on the third day.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

You can't just be saved when YOU want to be, it takes God drawing you and being completely convinced of the fact that you are a sinner that is on your way to Hell when you die. The only way to Heaven is through Jesus and what He did for us on the cross when he died. If there is no drawing, there is no salvation.

I don't believe in Calvinism. I do not believe that God would hand pick who is to be saved and who isn't. He gives all an opportunity to come to Him - He refuses none!

I hope this helps clear it up on what salvation is. Its simple. We are sinners, Jesus paid the price for our sin...all we have to do it repent and believe.

I agree with you for the most part, but I thing what some people question is how churches and denominations make repentance and belief look so different. Some churches require the sinner's prayer and a public decision and will even question your salvation if you can't point to a specific date and time you got saved, or don't equate it with a big emotional experience. Others equate belief and salvation, so it's common for people to be confirmed as believers without being able to really point at a specific moment in time when they got saved. I think both are valid, but that the latter makes more sense, even though the big emotional experience where you repeat a prayer has become more commonly accepted these days.

Personally, I think that the bible requires belief and repentance. It says even the demons believe, but they have no repentance for sins. In short, it's the same thing as the scriptures Kristina posted lay out - believe not just that Jesus was a nice guy and a good role model and teacher, but that He is the Son of God and that He saved you from your sins. This requires believing in sin, and that you have sinned and need to be reconciled to God because of it, by someone outside yourself.

I also find the statement I quoted above interesting, because the paragraph where Kristina says she doesn't believe in Calvinism directly follows something that is usually used to support Calvinism - that nobody comes to God on their own, but that God draws them to him for salvation. A Calvinist would say that draw is irresistible, while I guess an Arminian would say that God calls them and then gives them a chance to decide whether to accept Him or not.

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Love it when the "You're All Going to Hell" title is so appropriate to a first post.... :lol:

BTW, who is Kristina? I'm guessing the donations were to something like Planned Parenthood? :P

It probably was, it usually is ;)

The appearance of a certain city crushing lizard used to trigger donations to a whole round of causes. That one had PP, local Democrats, feminists and all sorts IIRC. For me, it reminded me of my obligations to the comrades at Socialist Worker and their fighting fund.

For Kristina, though, pretty sure it was PP. What do you think would be a good feminist cause over here which would irritate her enough? I could split my donations two ways...

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I agree with you for the most part, but I thing what some people question is how churches and denominations make repentance and belief look so different. Some churches require the sinner's prayer and a public decision and will even question your salvation if you can't point to a specific date and time you got saved, or don't equate it with a big emotional experience. Others equate belief and salvation, so it's common for people to be confirmed as believers without being able to really point at a specific moment in time when they got saved. I think both are valid, but that the latter makes more sense, even though the big emotional experience where you repeat a prayer has become more commonly accepted these days.

Personally, I think that the bible requires belief and repentance. It says even the demons believe, but they have no repentance for sins. In short, it's the same thing as the scriptures Kristina posted lay out - believe not just that Jesus was a nice guy and a good role model and teacher, but that He is the Son of God and that He saved you from your sins. This requires believing in sin, and that you have sinned and need to be reconciled to God because of it, by someone outside yourself.

I also find the statement I quoted above interesting, because the paragraph where Kristina says she doesn't believe in Calvinism directly follows something that is usually used to support Calvinism - that nobody comes to God on their own, but that God draws them to him for salvation. A Calvinist would say that draw is irresistible, while I guess an Arminian would say that God calls them and then gives them a chance to decide whether to accept Him or not.

So, again I ask, God deliberately sent hundreds of millions of souls to earth, knowing that they would never hear the gospel, knowing that no matter what these people did, they would be condemned to Hell simply because of where they were born?

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if god draws people to him why does he need a book that people can't seem to agree on what it says? if he draws them then a book is pointless.

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