Aren't Fundie Youth Frustrated Sexually?

[bananacat]

I wonder if some of them masturbate without even realizing it's sexual. They're told that sex is bad from a very young age, but they're never told what sex is. So when they adjust the shower settings or enjoy riding a bike just a little more, maybe they don't even connect it to that big, scary SEX thing that they're supposed to avoid. I started masturbating when I was fairly young, probably 8 or 9, and it took me awhile to realize that it was sexual. And it started out as just clitoral stimulation. I didn't even really know that the vaginal hole existed until I learned about it from a menstruation video, and even then I never really explored it until I learned to use tampons at 13. I wasn't fundie or anything near it; I just didn't know a whole lot about sex.

[countressrascal]

I have a fundie MA that waited until she got married to kiss, that part went well. Wedding night was a disaster; she was so excited about it. Booked a wonderful room, in room hot tub I arranged for fruit basket, cheese and sparkling cider to be delivered, also paid for the room. We had a bridal shower for her and she received some very nice tasteful lingerie. I got a tearful call from her the next morning, new hubbie was not interested in sex with her at all. They spend the next week on a sexless honeymoon, she wanted to go to Disneyland. Her marriage lasted one year and during that time they had sex only 4 times. Since we live in a small fundie town the boy had to move out of town. Yes he was gay

[JenniferJuniper]

They don't really even know the other person and then are expected to have sex...it's weird physically, but it's even weirder from an emotional standpoint. It kind of reminds me of Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI or something.

The stories of Marie and Louis' first few months in the marital bed are quite detailed and pretty comical. Louis had no clue how things worked. Marie actually told one of her brothers who reported that "he inserts his organ, remains there without stirring for perhaps two minutes and then withdraws without ever discharging, and still erect, bids his wife goodnight".

It sounds he got the 18th century version of the Lego speech.

[debrand]

I was thinking about this topic when i woke up. In order to prevent a child with a high libido from secretly masturbating or having sexual thoughts, the parent will have to use shame, threats or violence and fear. I can't imagine what long term effect this has on the adult child.

[fundifugee]

My sexuality/sexual dysfunction prof in med school said he'd had a few fundie patients who were so damaged by the upbringing that they couldn't have sex once they were married. He said that was incredibly common for women, who just put up with the pain from vaginismus and dealt with it as a curse or something. But he actually had a few men who could not achieve the act after spending their adolescent hormonal peaks in self-denial. He did therapy with them, and had one man who still just could not bring himself to act. He was a church pastor too, and wanted lots of kids, but couldn't have sex. The doc offered artificial insemination/IVF, and the man could not even jerk off into a specimen cup to produce the sperm for the AI. Finally he just asked for a sperm extraction. Can you imagine a fella who would rather stick a needle into his scrotum, or have his balls jolted with a tazer, rather than have sex or masturbate? Some folks are really really good at sexual repression.

[debrand]

My sexuality/sexual dysfunction prof in med school said he'd had a few fundie patients who were so damaged by the upbringing that they couldn't have sex once they were married. He said that was incredibly common for women, who just put up with the pain from vaginismus and dealt with it as a curse or something. But he actually had a few men who could not achieve the act after spending their adolescent hormonal peaks in self-denial. He did therapy with them, and had one man who still just could not bring himself to act. He was a church pastor too, and wanted lots of kids, but couldn't have sex. The doc offered artificial insemination/IVF, and the man could not even jerk off into a specimen cup to produce the sperm for the AI. Finally he just asked for a sperm extraction. Can you imagine a fella who would rather stick a needle into his scrotum, or have his balls jolted with a tazer, rather than have sex or masturbate? Some folks are really really good at sexual repression.

And how is that man going to respond to his own children's sexuality?

[nolongerIFBx]

I guess it would depend on what age "youth" is. When I first learned about sex I was horrified and fascinated. We had no TV but I could walk to the library by myself (ah, the good old days!) so from then until about 11 or 12 I read a lot of paper-back romances! I know my parents weren't completely ignorant about my reading habits. They frowned- still do!- but they never said "No". But then I entered the teen years and heard enough preaching that I quit reading anything but Christian romances for the most part. We didn't have much contact with the opposite sex and were taught that it was wrong to do anything that attracted them. I wouldn't say I was frustrated. I would say I was so suppressed that I just didn't think that much about it because I believe to do so was sin.

Since I'm still fundie and still single (and definitely not a youth any more). . .? I read what I want anymore, clitoral stimulate occasionally, but I don't really feel frustrated. But then I still don't manage to have contact with the opposite sex in anything other than a professional or platonic capacity. I'd like to have a child and that frustrates me- the biological clock is ringing so violently it's about to fall of the dresser- but it's not like I am at the "Nice Jewish Girl" blog stage. I'm not ready to pay somebody, LOL. I can buy sperm or accept an embyro donation. A man would be really nice- I'd like to be loved- but I've accepted it may never- probably won't- happen. And that's more sad than frustrating.

[koolmom]

This is some interesting topic. Like many fundie girls, I didn't know my then-boyfriend/first partner very long before our "first time".

It happened after I'd left my abusive dad, who was all over me to "not do anything" to when I had to leave home, I wound up having to do what he didn't want me to do, I know, I know, that same stupid, twisted logic again.

I only met my boyfriend (who I eventually married) mid-summer, saw him only during the day on daily work commutes, then a few dates on weekends (I went to his home, he never came to mine until the day I left home), then finally, my break-away day, where, like a fundie honeymoon, it was, "Well, honey, we're finally alone, let's get down", etc. And, like most fundie women, it was terrifying. We didn't have a comfortable time of it, even though my boyfriend knew my fears, and it took months to get into it without discomfort.

I'd never had a female exam before, either, and when I did, it went badly. The doctor just couldn't get me to relax enough go any further, so he'd wrote me a 3-month presription to the Pill, which he'd advised me to come back for more, and a second attempt. His nurse admonished me, "What's your problem, you're the doctor's last patient, and he wants to get out as soon as possible", etc.

I was nearly in tears when she'd said that. So I literally had to go from zero sex to having a sex life overnight...

I never had what you'd consider a high libido, I enjoyed sex when I was relaxed and comfortable for it, but since my divorce in 1989, I've had only three partners, the longest of them three months, and the last time I'd done the horizontal cha-cha was in April of 1995. I have occasional stirrings, but nothing I can't manage, and don't ever feel that compelled to seek out partners for that (or any) reason. Guess I'm just low on the sexual scale...

[JenniferJuniper]

I guess it would depend on what age "youth" is. When I first learned about sex I was horrified and fascinated. We had no TV but I could walk to the library by myself (ah, the good old days!) so from then until about 11 or 12 I read a lot of paper-back romances! I know my parents weren't completely ignorant about my reading habits.

My grandmother's Reader's Digest magazines were actually a wealth of technical information about sex for me. Believe it or not. And later, there were Auntie's Cosmos to be perused while babysitting. Most interesting, they were.

I didn't come a Fundie family at all, but I was the oldest and my mother seemed to be perpetually with sibling, so I think she was content to let me figure it all out on my own, rather than personally get into the details with me.

[Trynn]

I grew up conservative christian, and I don't even think I knew where the vagina was until I started to use tampons. And even then I was really scared I'd accidentally shove it up the pee hole instead. Sometimes I thought that was what happened when I leaked.

I didn't start exploring my body (fearing it would be masturbation) until very recently when I started using a cup and someone told me it'd be a good idea to try and find my cervix. And felt very ignorant when I asked how I would differentiate that from the hymen, especially when I got the answer. Even though I'm now an adult (and considered liberal by my family's standards) I still had to sit there and tell myself "this is not masturbation" over and over when I Was looking for these things.

I think that, aside from masturbation issues, fundy children are probably shamed into thinking that exploring their bodies is wrong, and I think it's actually...*gasp* RIGHT. Even in the context of the strictest christianity, it's good to know: The better to detect if anything is wrong. Of course, if it is, fundies are probably told it's somehow THEIR fault. Once when I Was having issues, I kept it a secret because I was scared people would find out and assume that I was some kind of slut.

Personally, I feel no need or desire for sex. I don't know if that makes me asexual. But growing up the thought of sex always terrified me. I have never been interested in marriage, but I always wanted children, at least one that I carried myself. So sex is probably in my future and, honestly, it does terrify me. And I don't think that's fair. Sex is natural, I shouldn't have to be scared.

[joe_mulcahy]

My father grew up in a Catholic programme for orphans in the years following WWII, and he told me that even having a wet dream was a sin he had to go to confession over, and he would even be whipped on top of it. They had to confess even thinking about sex, and if a boy had been caught with so much as an erection, he was sent to confession, and would often be whipped as well.

It still saddens me even today when I think on the faint scarring on my father's back, buttocks and thighs. It makes me wonder if that is why many of my father's friends grew up to have such large families later on, perhaps since sex within marriage is the only acceptable sexual outlet, they have as much sex as humanly possible?

My father, along with my mum, who is a nurse, made a point to raise me with as much information about sex and human sexuality as possible. My mum even let me peruse her old gynaecology texts on normal vulvar morphology when I was around 7 or 8 and would explain each part and how they are analogous to the same structures of male anatomy. I think it was my father's repressed (and abusive) upbringing that caused him and my mother to go to the absolute opposite extreme, and to make available all the information they had ready access to.

However, because much of my educational material was my mother's texts, I learned about medical problems too, and developed something of a fear about sex (diseases, conditions like vaginismus, unusually thick hymens, etc), which ultimately led to me being somewhat averse to the sexual act itself until even after marriage.

That is not to say that I refrained from sex all together, just not the customary penis/vagina intercourse. I was deathly afraid of causing pain, so would insert no more than a single finger into my girlfriends as I brought them to orgasm with my tongue only. I enjoyed the sight, smells and variations from one woman to the next, and what better way to enjoy them than up close like that?

But even that can be a hard habit to break, because when I later married, I didn't do more than use my tongue and fingers until one day, weeks later, my wife asked me if I could do it normally. I think it was me who was more afraid.

[pixydust]

I grew up fundie-lite, but when it came to sex, we were fundie all the way! Yes, it was insanely frustrating! I tried to "pray it away"....didn't work at all. I didn't masturbate until I was 20 and already married, and could not have an orgasm (I had been having sex for 3 years at this point!) and knew that I had to do something about it. Hell, I didn't know what a clitoris was until I began having sex at 17!

One thing I did find fascinating about the consquences of being brought up fundie, is that I was taught that everything apart from basic missionary style married sex was wrong and evil. When I decided that ideaology was wrong I became open to many things, including things that some of my liberal friends still find a bit tabboo (although I most definately have the rule that it MUST be consensual whatever you do, whether it is vanilla or BDSM). In a way, by rejecting one very restrictive paradigm, I was less likely to buy into the other more restrictive social paradigms that my friends had just by being raised in "normal" culture.

True for me, too! As I've told me hubby, I'm the most sexually open minded person that you will ever meet! Once you loose the original "sex is bad, mmmkaaay" thought process, the entire world opens up to you!

(Oh, and the lack of orgasm with my first husband for 3 years? Totally his fault, haha! He sucked in bed, but because he was my first I didn't know it - he said that it was me, he was great in bed :doh: )

[FearLyss]

I was an incredibly horny adolescent, even though I did not have penetrating sex until I was 19. I would not have survived. I had my own room, and the privacy I needed to do my thing.

In fifth grade, I was granted my first orgasm by my best friend, another girl. While I enjoy the penis she is now (probably was then) a lesbian. She knew early, I only knew I liked to climax. She knew far more than I did at the time, but after we stopped hanging out (about a two year "fling" lol), I was masturbating pretty often. I honestly thank her, for knowing what a guy should be like in bed. If he can not find the clit, I am through. I could never have a relationshipo with a guy who could not please me!

My mother (fundie light) used to complain to me often (as young as 8- she had just a few mental health diagnoses) that my father couldn't please her. I understood how important sex was in a serious relationship, because of that. The idea of not having sex with a guy before commiting to him kind of scares me, but is understandable (and I realize many happy marriages start that way), but not kissing or fondling, (nothing?) that is just unrealistic to me. I jnust can not imagine what they go through, impure thoguths are prayed away. They have almost no physical or emotional relationship with a guy, then they are expected to start doing EVERYTHING and making babies. Those poor girls.

[liltwinstar]

The comments in this blog post are pretty enlightening: lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/2011/11/purity-culture-and-sexual-dysfunction.html#comment-form

Of course, in the comments there are the trolls that go on and on (and on...) about abortion, but it's a place where a lot of people shared their experiences with sex after growing up fundie. A lot of the people there report having a lot of non-consensual sexual fantasies, because that was somehow "safe" or the way that sex is supposed to be...in fundie culture, women are supposed to be passive and be "awakened" somehow by the first suggestion of penis on the wedding night. So, it's not a big step to get to the whole rape fantasy thing.

[synchroswimr]

My sexuality/sexual dysfunction prof in med school said he'd had a few fundie patients who were so damaged by the upbringing that they couldn't have sex once they were married. He said that was incredibly common for women, who just put up with the pain from vaginismus and dealt with it as a curse or something. [sNIP]

And those poor women if they had moms, drs and nurses like I did, where after practically crying through every pap starting at 18, at 22, (I was engaged, and considering sex with my now husband) the nurse said, "honey. A man's penis is a lot larger than my two fingers, you better get used to this." My mom always said that it can't hurt THAT bad. Yes, it can. I finally got vulvodynia and Vaginismus dx when I was 27, and now at 33 am finally getting treatment (my new doc doesn't think I have Vaginismus, just the vulvodynia). I wouldn't say I was raised up nearly as repressed as the fundies, but I still had my issues, and it took me this long. I worry for any women in that lifestyle with similar problems.

ETA: or if those women lack the fantastic, supportive, amazing husband I have to deal with all of this.

[debrand]

And those poor women if they had moms, drs and nurses like I did, where after practically crying through every pap starting at 18, at 22, (I was engaged, and considering sex with my now husband) the nurse said, "honey. A man's penis is a lot larger than my two fingers, you better get used to this." My mom always said that it can't hurt THAT bad. Yes, it can. I finally got vulvodynia and Vaginismus dx when I was 27, and now at 33 am finally getting treatment (my new doc doesn't think I have Vaginismus, just the vulvodynia). I wouldn't say I was raised up nearly as repressed as the fundies, but I still had my issues, and it took me this long. I worry for any women in that lifestyle with similar problems.

ETA: or if those women lack the fantastic, supportive, amazing husband I have to deal with all of this.

That nurse should have lost her job! What a bitchy thing to say to a young woman.

[debrand]

The comments in this blog post are pretty enlightening: lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/2011/11/purity-culture-and-sexual-dysfunction.html#comment-form

Of course, in the comments there are the trolls that go on and on (and on...) about abortion, but it's a place where a lot of people shared their experiences with sex after growing up fundie. A lot of the people there report having a lot of non-consensual sexual fantasies, because that was somehow "safe" or the way that sex is supposed to be...in fundie culture, women are supposed to be passive and be "awakened" somehow by the first suggestion of penis on the wedding night. So, it's not a big step to get to the whole rape fantasy thing.

What an interesting site. I enjoyed reading through some of the articles.

[synchroswimr]

That nurse should have lost her job! What a bitchy thing to say to a young woman.

Thanks.

I worry that someone even more repressed and uneducated about her body will suffer as I have for so long, but feel she can't tell her husband "no" (I physically can't have intercourse because of the burning pain). And if they're like me, they are just told it can't be that bad and aren't encouraged (or don't have the money/insurance) to seek answers. :-(

[jenny_islander]

Yes, the 0 to 100 in one day seems strange and unhealthy to me. And the really weird thing is, it's not just about sex for a lot of these people but also about any sort of romantic feelings whatsoever. I was just watching the horrible "biblical betrothal" videos featuring the Smiths and Mortons and was really struck by something dad Smith said during Kressant's betrothal ceremony: he told his daughter that he wanted her to never talk to, develop an interest in, or even think about boys until he, her father, found the right one for her to court. This is just so beyond ridiculous! It's just not possible for a teenager to never feel any sexual or romantic feelings, so you're setting them up for horrible guilt and confusion. It really does seem to be all about the father's control, especially over his daughters, which is just icky.

Yes, this. It's so sad that even the dating allowed to people in the past eras that these people idolize is off limits. Where are the young couples holding hands at quilting bees? Where are the social dances where young women can go whirling around the floor in the arms of young men while their chaperones chat in the corner? Even if they think waltzing is too risque (how positively Georgian!), can't they dance the Virginia Reel or something, for heaven's sakes? Can't they put their toes in the water at all before being shoved in at the deep end on their wedding nights?

[RR88]

It must be terrifying to go from 0-100% in a matter of hours. Most of them haven't kissed each other before their wedding, some haven't even held hands for the first time. It must be so confusing to suddenly reconcile sex as something you must do after being taught it is dirty and wrong your entire life. They don't even try other stuff first before going all the way.

I can't imagine how it must be to have your libido repressed like that. The sex drive is normal and healthy and they can't even masturbate. I remember chrislukas saying that teaching teenagers safe sex would be like teaching them how to safely rob a bank. It boggles my mind that she compared healthy, consensual sex to a BANK ROBBERY. So glad I didn't grow up with that kind of pressure!

Your first paragraph especially resonated with me. I have been to Jewish weddings where the bride and groom (who did not touch until their wedding night) looked miserable together. Sometimes it seems like I have had more intimacy in my relationships with men than my married ultra-religious friends have had…and I have vaginismus.

[Olive Plant]

One thing I did find fascinating about the consquences of being brought up fundie, is that I was taught that everything apart from basic missionary style married sex was wrong and evil. When I decided that ideaology was wrong I became open to many things, including things that some of my liberal friends still find a bit tabboo (although I most definately have the rule that it MUST be consensual whatever you do, whether it is vanilla or BDSM). In a way, by rejecting one very restrictive paradigm, I was less likely to buy into the other more restrictive social paradigms that my friends had just by being raised in "normal" culture.

I've had a long-time theory that this is true. The most sexually out-there people I know are ex-homeschoolers. It's like once they figure out that sex might not be as bad as they were raised to believe, they've got nothing else to hold them back. One guy I know, who was raised in a no-BC, head-covering Christian household, has had sex with probably at least a hundred women, although frankly I think his take on sexuality is still pretty messed up, probably from how he was raised.

[RR88]

I think fundie males are taught very different things about sex than fundie females are.

[Artemis]

The comment about sublimation:

This is St Theresa of Avila, as a young nun, in a religious ecstasy. (Sculpted by Bernini from her descriptions of her feelings in her writings.) St Margaret Mary Alacoque descrines her religios ecstasy in the presence of God in almost orgasmic terms. Other 'saints' decribe their religious experiences in similarly fervid words.

It's a way of sublimating the desire for sex. Daddy-daughter worship and the swooning expressions are qualitatively no different, are they?

[RR88]

The comment about sublimation:

This is St Theresa of Avila, as a young nun, in a religious ecstasy. (Sculpted by Bernini from her descriptions of her feelings in her writings.) St Margaret Mary Alacoque descrines her religios ecstasy in the presence of God in almost orgasmic terms. Other 'saints' decribe their religious experiences in similarly fervid words.

It's a way of sublimating the desire for sex. Daddy-daughter worship and the swooning expressions are qualitatively no different, are they?

I remember studying that piece during my freshman or sophomore year of college. It certainly does appear to be a depiction of sexual-like joy.

[OohLaLa]

I grew up probably "fundie-lite." We did the whole purity vow/ring thing though and the very little sex ed I got was from Christian young adult books that were very much abstinence-only, don't give away for free what a man has to earn by marrying you, etc., etc. Didn't stop me one bit from from pretty serious make-out sessions in HS when I got the chance (was homeschooled up through sophomore, actually went to public school Jr & Sr years). And shortly after I turned 18 and moved out, I fucked the first attractive guy I found. Not because I loved, or even liked him. I guess really it boils down to being horny and curious. What's funny is afterward, I kept thinking that I was supposed to feel so broken and empty and used up and every other description all my books had used for harlots like me. But I didn't feel bad at all, not one little bit. I really didn't feel any different at all except that I'd gained more knowledge! So much for that huge lie to control girls. I do wish I had received better sex ed though, because the pregnancy scare that followed was not fun. I will never forget the nurse at the clinic I went to, who sat me down and explained how important condoms were. I was amazed at how she was so kind and not a bit judgemental, that the fact I'd had sex didn't disgust her in any way. That was when I think I first started to develop a normal, healthy view of sex, thanks to that woman.