Breaking News-You're not perfect but Amy ClosedMind can help

[MonkeyMomma]

Well, dontcha know, your President is threatening Amy right now, and she may well die for her beliefs by refusing healthcare at all in future, according to today's blog entry.... http://openmindsandopenhearts.blogspot. ... eview.html :roll:

What is Amy even talking about? So, because employers have to provide equal coverage for birth control, she'll no longer be able to go to a Catholic hospital and will be forced to sacrifice herself for a fetus as St. Gianna freely chose to do? (As is the right of any pregnant woman to chose what she will do with a pregnancy.)

OR. She could just not use the coverage for birth control if it offends her so greatly. :roll:

Dear conservative Catholics - contraceptive coverage really doesn't affect you if you don't use it, and if you work for an employer that already covers it in their health insurance, you are already paying for it.

[Effie]

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[treemom]

Well, dontcha know, your President is threatening Amy right now, and she may well die for her beliefs by refusing healthcare at all in future, according to today's blog entry.... http://openmindsandopenhearts.blogspot. ... eview.html :roll:

Dear Amy,

No one is killing you.

Signed,

Treemom

[sassycupcake]

Emerging from years of lurking to share this:

There are multiple holes in Abby Johnson's story, the biggest of which are the fact that she was about to be fired from Planned Parenthood for gross incompetence and the fact that no ultrasound-guided abortions were performed on the day she allegedly had her life-changing conversion.

She also has no evidence for her allegations that PP tried to "force more profit" from abortions: no emails, memos, or corroborating statements. She also seems to have forgotten that PP's abortion services are provided by a separate non-profit PP entity than the non-profit that provides other services.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/f ... e-movement

http://feministsforchoice.com/abby-john ... -water.htm

So basically, she knew she was losing her job and jumped ship because anti-choice heroine is still a pretty lucrative (and famous!) career.

[Arielkay]

Emerging from years of lurking to share this:

There are multiple holes in Abby Johnson's story, the biggest of which are the fact that she was about to be fired from Planned Parenthood for gross incompetence and the fact that no ultrasound-guided abortions were performed on the day she allegedly had her life-changing conversion.

She also has no evidence for her allegations that PP tried to "force more profit" from abortions: no emails, memos, or corroborating statements. She also seems to have forgotten that PP's abortion services are provided by a separate non-profit PP entity than the non-profit that provides other services.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/f ... e-movement

http://feministsforchoice.com/abby-john ... -water.htm

So basically, she knew she was losing her job and jumped ship because anti-choice heroine is still a pretty lucrative (and famous!) career.

I knew I smelled a rat! What gets me is that hardly anyone knows about this crap. They just know her magical conversion story, not the reality. And even the ones who do hear about it deny it! Just look at the comments under the feministsforchoice's article. "She is still a hero . . . your website shouldn't print lies, blah blah". Hello! They had actual factual freaking data that said there wasn't that type of abortion done that day, there were no women of that gestation at the clinic that day - those are facts. I'm sure they could also check out the part about her being on probation too - employers document this type of thing. I mean, damn, what does it take for these people? This Abby bitch is laughing at them all the way to the bank.

[treemom]

Hmm...I bet I could make big bucks as a speaker who had a pro-life conversion. And I could make up stories about how I was pressured and the death industry lied to me.

Too bad for my pocketbook I have some self respect.

[formergothardite]

Treemom, the anti-choice people would go crazy over you and you would make a fortune. I'm glad you have morals, unlike most of them.

[Avalondaughter]

In the comments:

Um, doubt it.

Celebrated the closing of Planned Parenthood?

Celebrated cutting off a source of health care of low-income women?

Celebrated cutting off a inexpensive birth control for low-income women?

Celebrated lessening access to cancer screenings for low-income women?

Celebrated cutting off a source of PRENATAL care to low-income women?

So much to celebrate. You must be so proud of yourselves.

[formergothardite]

Celebrated the closing of Planned Parenthood?

Celebrated cutting off a source of health care of low-income women?

Celebrated cutting off a inexpensive birth control for low-income women?

Celebrated lessening access to cancer screenings for low-income women?

Celebrated cutting off a source of PRENATAL care to low-income women?

So much to celebrate. You must be so proud of yourselves.

And yet they claim to be pro-life. They are pro-fetus, that is pretty much it.

[valsa]

2)Heaven help us!.The government decided to do things that make people go against their conscience which may mean that if this same thing happens in the future I may not be able to go to a Catholic hospital and may have to choose to do things against my conscience or to die Saint Gianna style.

Ignoring the stupidity of her belief, she isn't even making sense here.

Saint Gianna was a pregnant woman who died because she refused a medical procedure that would have saved her life but killed the fetus (a medical procedure allowed by Catholic teaching)

What is the government supposedly making Catholic churches do that goes against their teachings? The Catholic church already approved of a method of saving Gianna that would have killed her baby, without interference from the government.

[treemom]

Treemom, the anti-choice people would go crazy over you and you would make a fortune. I'm glad you have morals, unlike most of them.

I just can't imagine screwing it up for the rest of women just to make a buck.

[synchroswimr]

Ignoring the stupidity of her belief, she isn't even making sense here.

Saint Gianna was a pregnant woman who died because she refused a medical procedure that would have saved her life but killed the fetus (a medical procedure allowed by Catholic teaching)

What is the government supposedly making Catholic churches do that goes against their teachings? The Catholic church already approved of a method of saving Gianna that would have killed her baby, without interference from the government.

The last I heard is Catholic hospitals, schools, etc... are now required to provide coverage for birth control in health plans.

[kamcho_papio]

Not to mention St Gianna choosing to die instead of making a difficult but spiritually acceptable decision, she also chose to leave her four or five post-birth fetuses without a mother.

[valsa]

The last I heard is Catholic hospitals, schools, etc... are now required to provide coverage for birth control in health plans.

And how does being required to provide birth control coverage mean she can no longer go to a Catholic hospital? Woman makes no sense!

[fakepigtails73]

I knew I smelled a rat! What gets me is that hardly anyone knows about this crap. They just know her magical conversion story, not the reality. And even the ones who do hear about it deny it! Just look at the comments under the feministsforchoice's article. "She is still a hero . . . your website shouldn't print lies, blah blah". Hello! They had actual factual freaking data that said there wasn't that type of abortion done that day, there were no women of that gestation at the clinic that day - those are facts. I'm sure they could also check out the part about her being on probation too - employers document this type of thing. I mean, damn, what does it take for these people? This Abby bitch is laughing at them all the way to the bank.

I knew something was fishy with that "PP manager saw the pro-life light after firing" event...

Yeah, she most likely was fired for incompetance, because even the most pro-choice activists don't want to make the # of abortions go up. Instead of leaving into the sunset she invented that story to get attention and hero-status from the people who most likely used to bother her on her way to work. (and lots of them are loud...Anti-choice protesters love to claim that they "silently pray the rosary near clinics" but we know better).

I'm not impressed.

They annoy me with the Saint Gianna story. When I was in catholic high school they would talk about her on and on, like her sacrifice (save her baby but die on the table) was the best thing a working woman could do (and leave the kids without their mother, bravo!); she was not a saint then (she was at the "blessed" stage). Nuns would mention Gianna being a physician and wearing pants, as if that would make us relate to her more. But the worst saint that teachers would ask us to worship was Maria Goretti. I remember her story scared the wits out of me when I was 9, and now each time I think about it I get angry. The whole Saint Maria Goretti rape and death story is exactly why I dislike the Catholic religion of my youth. For those that don't know her, google it and weep. :(

[Nothing2CHere]

I had never heard of St. Gianna before, so I did some googling. Here's where I got my info from: http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=6985

In 1961, Gianna was once again expecting. During the second month, Gianna developed a fibroma on her uterus. After examination, the doctors gave her three choices: an abortion, which would save her life and allow her to continue to have children; a complete hysterectomy, which would preserve her life, but take the unborn child's life, and prevent further pregnancy; or removal of only the fibroma, with the potential of further complications. Roman Catholic teaching would have allowed her to obtain a hysterectomy, but would forbid an abortion. Wanting to preserve her child's life, she opted for the removal of the fibroma.

After the operation, complications continued throughout her pregnancy. Gianna was quite clear about her wishes, expressing to her family, "This time it will be a difficult delivery, and they may have to save one or the other -- I want them to save my baby."

On April 21, 1962, Good Friday of that year, Gianna went to the hospital, where her fourth child, Gianna Emanuela, was successfully delivered via Caesarean section. However, Gianna continued to have severe pain, and died of septic peritonitis 7 days after the birth.

My take-away? The decision was hers - she decided which type of surgery she wanted, she decided that if it came down to one or the other, save the baby, not her. And the baby was able to be born despite the medical complications it brought on Gianna. She followed her conscience and did what was she felt was right for her; that doesn't mean that every woman in that situation would have or should have made the same decisions.

[NurseNell]

I had never heard of St. Gianna before, so I did some googling. Here's where I got my info from: http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=6985

My take-away? The decision was hers - she decided which type of surgery she wanted, she decided that if it came down to one or the other, save the baby, not her. And the baby was able to be born despite the medical complications it brought on Gianna. She followed her conscience and did what was she felt was right for her; that doesn't mean that every woman in that situation would have or should have made the same decisions.

Today she likely would not have died of the septic peritonitis. I would have chosen just removal of the fibroma also. The septic peritonitis was a very rare complication, how sad that it developed. I wonder how her child felt growing up, knowing her mother died for her. That is a really heavy burden for a child. At 2 months pregnant had it been something like cancer or something more serious than a fibroma I'd have chosen treatment so I could be there for my other children. Today they might not even treat this the same way. It's not all that rare to have a pregnant woman with a fibroma go through an uneventful pregnancy.

[ZTwist]

Even if women could be forced to give birth to unwanted children, what happens to those kids? Prolifers have this image that women would suddenly give them all up for adoption. Yet, there are plenty of examples of mothers killing children taht they don't want. Susan Smith is a famous example. There was a father in the picture who would have taken his children.Just because a woman does not want or love her child, does not mean that she will give it up for adoption. However even if every unwanted child was given up for adoption, how are all these potential adoptive parents to be found? Unless you lower the requirments for adoption, there won't be enough parents for the children, especially the nonwhite or handicapped children.

Lowering requiments for adoption will only hurt children because people who should never be parents will be allowed to adopt. You'll end up with more dead children or adults who were horribly abused as kids.

Exactly,

Early in my nursing days I worked in pediatrics. We had one teenage girl still going thru surgeries because she had been left in dirty diapers for so long as a baby that her genitals were horribly scarred from the urine and feces. I still get upset thinking about her. And that was "just" neglect, not active abuse.

As long as it gets born, who cares what happens after that.

[NurseNell]

Today she likely would not have died of the septic peritonitis. I would have chosen just removal of the fibroma also. The septic peritonitis was a very rare complication, how sad that it developed. I wonder how her child felt growing up, knowing her mother died for her. That is a really heavy burden for a child. At 2 months pregnant had it been something like cancer or something more serious than a fibroma I'd have chosen treatment so I could be there for my other children. Today they might not even treat this the same way. It's not all that rare to have a pregnant woman with a fibroma go through an uneventful pregnancy.

Her daughter became a physician like her mother.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Emerging from years of lurking to share this:

There are multiple holes in Abby Johnson's story, the biggest of which are the fact that she was about to be fired from Planned Parenthood for gross incompetence and the fact that no ultrasound-guided abortions were performed on the day she allegedly had her life-changing conversion.

She also has no evidence for her allegations that PP tried to "force more profit" from abortions: no emails, memos, or corroborating statements. She also seems to have forgotten that PP's abortion services are provided by a separate non-profit PP entity than the non-profit that provides other services.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/f ... e-movement

http://feministsforchoice.com/abby-john ... -water.htm

So basically, she knew she was losing her job and jumped ship because anti-choice heroine is still a pretty lucrative (and famous!) career.

Something about Abby Johnson's story just never added up. Thanks for the links.

Jill Stanek is another pro-lifer who seriously works my last nerve.

And has anyone read this?

"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion"

http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

[Boltingmadonna]

The notion of "St." Gianna Molla as a pro-life martyr has never made any sense to me. Perhaps some of our FJ medical experts can explain it. A fibroma, as far as I know, is the same thing as a fibroid. It's a benign tumor. So I don't know why it needed to be removed in the first place. The only reason I can think of is if it was so large that it would have impeded the growth of the fetus. But it certainly wasn't life-threatening to the mother, so it wasn't particularly heroic of Gianna not to get a hysterectomy. What's puzzling is why she chose to undergo surgery during pregnancy at all.

She didn't die as a result of her fibroid surgery. She died of sepsis, which was preventable even back then. In 1962, why didn't they use antibiotics to treat her? I haven't seen any accounts that explain this. It sounds to me as if she died not as a pro-life martyr, but from medical malpractice. Not much of a role model. Her carrying on about how they must save the baby, not her, sound like the wanderings of a mind disturbed by illness, because there was never any question at all of a choice between her and the baby. They're just making stuff up, as far as I can see. If someone can enlighten me about the medical grounds for considering her a saintly martyr, I'd appreciate it.

[NurseNell]

The notion of "St." Gianna Molla as a pro-life martyr has never made any sense to me. Perhaps some of our FJ medical experts can explain it. A fibroma, as far as I know, is the same thing as a fibroid. It's a benign tumor. So I don't know why it needed to be removed in the first place. The only reason I can think of is if it was so large that it would have impeded the growth of the fetus. But it certainly wasn't life-threatening to the mother, so it wasn't particularly heroic of Gianna not to get a hysterectomy. What's puzzling is why she chose to undergo surgery during pregnancy at all.

She didn't die as a result of her fibroid surgery. She died of sepsis, which was preventable even back then. In 1962, why didn't they use antibiotics to treat her? I haven't seen any accounts that explain this. It sounds to me as if she died not as a pro-life martyr, but from medical malpractice. Not much of a role model. Her carrying on about how they must save the baby, not her, sound like the wanderings of a mind disturbed by illness, because there was never any question at all of a choice between her and the baby. They're just making stuff up, as far as I can see. If someone can enlighten me about the medical grounds for considering her a saintly martyr, I'd appreciate it.

I've had these same questions. I'm guessing the fibroma (yes, same as a fibroid) was large and impeding the growth of the fetus. This was in the days before ultrasounds so the doctors were going by physical exam. Perhaps it was causing bleeding, in which case it could be life threatening. The sepsis could have been due to contamination during the C-section or just some hospital acquired infection. I'd guess she got antibiotics, likely penicillin but even today septic shock has a 50% mortality (and we have far more antibiotics to use). A hospital acquired infection would likely be resistant to antibiotics. The main hospital acquired infection at that time was staph aureus and it was often resistant to penicillin. Streptomycin was available then but wouldn't have helped a staph infection. I can remember keflin/keflex from the 60's but I think it was later than 1962.

[MonkeyMomma]

Something about Abby Johnson's story just never added up. Thanks for the links.

Jill Stanek is another pro-lifer who seriously works my last nerve.

And has anyone read this?

"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion"

http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

Oh, lawd, Stanek is the worst. No, scratch that, her commenters are the worst. She had a post up once about a friend of mine who is a pro-choice minister, and the commenters just went OFF. Grrr .... :evil:

And sassycupcake, thank you for those links. I always thought there was something off with Johnson's story. The fact that there were no ultrasound assisted abortions and no 13 week gestation abortions that day really discredits her in my opinion, but the anti-choice folks on the Feminists for Choice blog don't care 'bout no stinkin' facts ... I don't know how bloggers put up with that kind of stupid.