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God values the lives of unborn babies and infants


formergothardite

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Jericho, to be clear, you do think women who have abortions should be charged with murder, right? Are you basing your anti-abortion beliefs on the Bible? Because if you are then you are willing to put women in jail/death row based on verses that can have various intepretations.

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women must sacrifice a turtle after every menstrual period.

Emmiedahl,

What is the verse in about sacrificing the turtles? I can only find stuff about turtle doves, and I must know this verse! Thanks in advance.

jericho, you are so terribly predictable.

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Jericho, to be clear, you do think women who have abortions should be charged with murder, right? Are you basing your anti-abortion beliefs on the Bible? Because if you are then you are willing to put women in jail/death row based on verses that can have various intepretations.

If Roe V. Wade was overturned, yes. Also the doctor who performed it.

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I do wish we could have that debate.

There's this awesome story about Genghis Khan (who was a traditional animist) sponsoring debates between Christian, Buddhist, and Muslim teachers at his court, late in life (several of his wives and sons were monotheists or Buddhists). The catch was, debating in the Mongol court was a sport that included drinking between each turn, so basically the last one standing won.

I wonder how many rounds it would take to lay a "it was grapejuice not wine" fundie out, if the cognitive dissonance didnt' get him first.

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If Roe V. Wade was overturned, yes. Also the doctor who performed it.

So you think that you are so right and couldn't possibly be wrong that you would take a mother from her children who are already born, put her in jail for the rest of her life based on one interpretation of the Bible passages? Intepretations that there is a lot of debate over.

You sure do think a lot of yourself don't you?

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Jericho how do you explain God not counting children under a month old in those passages I quoted? I mean, if a fetus is the same as a baby, you would think anyone with a late period would be counted.

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If Roe V. Wade was overturned, yes. Also the doctor who performed it.

Are your beliefs on abortion based on the bible ?

Also, how do you explain the lack of condemnation for infanticide in the New Testament? Paul would have known that infants were exposed to the elements and left to die. Why didn't he write anything against the practice?

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Jericho how do you explain God not counting children under a month old in those passages I quoted? I mean, if a fetus is the same as a baby, you would think anyone with a late period would be counted.

I didn't see the exact quote about under a month old children. But as a simplified answer to everything else, God is a God of love but also a God of justice. When you break his commands, expect discipline. Before Christ's sacrifice on the Cross, that discipline many times was death.

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I didn't see the exact quote about under a month old children. But as a simplified answer to everything else, God is a God of love but also a God of justice. When you break his commands, expect discipline. Before Christ's sacrifice on the Cross, that discipline many times was death.

It is from the Bible:

If the person is from a month old up to five years old, your valuation shall be for a male five shekels of silver, and for a female your valuation shall be three shekels of silver." (Leviticus 27:6)

No value is placed on a baby under a month old. None. Apparently God doesn't even view newborns as valuable as people over a month old. And I don't understand how the rest of your post answers any of the questions asked to you.

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It states in the bible that god is the same today, yeseterday and tommorrow. Jesus, according to Christians, has always existed. So, Jericho, do you believe that God just suddenly changed? Why is it all right to murder babies before Christ but not after? Does morality change? If so, how can you be certain god won't change the rules again?

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It is from the Bible:

If the person is from a month old up to five years old, your valuation shall be for a male five shekels of silver, and for a female your valuation shall be three shekels of silver." (Leviticus 27:6)

No value is placed on a baby under a month old. None. Apparently God doesn't even view newborns as valuable as people over a month old. And I don't understand how the rest of your post answers any of the questions asked to you.

Abortion must have been know about during Old Testament times. If it was such a sin, why not write a law condeming it. There are rules about not mixing fiber and not eating rare meat. Why not throw in an extra rule stating that women shouldn't abort their pregnancies.

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Emmiedahl,

What is the verse in about sacrificing the turtles? I can only find stuff about turtle doves, and I must know this verse! Thanks in advance.

jericho, you are so terribly predictable.

Sorry, it *is* turtle dove. Someone else told me turtle and I did not bother to look because, well, the Bible gets weird. The person is usually right, I just texted her to let her know.

Everyone, scratch the turtle. Instead, God wants you to kill two birds. That changes everything!

No, seriously, it changes nothing. If Christians don't sacrifice birds, the rest of us get our abortions.

Jericho, correct me if I am wrong. Science does not consider abortion a murder, the Bible does not call abortion murder, but you personally believe it is murder so people should be going to jail.

You know what I think is wrong? Spanking kids in public. So, can I just call it murder, have the laws changed, and then throw people in jail? Does it work that way? What if I decide that the word "god" in the Old Testament really means "unicorn"? Can I make schools teach that the world was created by unicorns?

It's ridiculous, but so are you.

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It is from the Bible:

If the person is from a month old up to five years old, your valuation shall be for a male five shekels of silver, and for a female your valuation shall be three shekels of silver." (Leviticus 27:6)

No value is placed on a baby under a month old. None. Apparently God doesn't even view newborns as valuable as people over a month old. And I don't understand how the rest of your post answers any of the questions asked to you.

Basically all this says is that the Bible is silent on the value of a child under 1 month old. This doesn't prove that God didn't value an infant or unborn child as not a person. It's even more of a stretch to say this verse promotes infanticide of those under a month old.

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God manages to put a value on everything else, but somehow manages to say silent about newborns and fetuses? For a guy who went into a ton of details about stuff, it is fairly telling that He manages to, oops, forget to mention what a newborn or fetus is worth.

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Basically all this says is that the Bible is silent on the value of a child under 1 month old. This doesn't prove that God didn't value an infant or unborn child as not a person. It's even more of a stretch to say this verse promotes infanticide of those under a month old.

If EVERYTHING else is ascribed a value, doesn't silence speak?

I mean, when my grandmother called her grandkids into the room to give them all gifts EXCEPT the one 'hated' grandchild, skipping hated-grandchild was 'saying' something, no?

If I"m listing the value of everything on my bookshelf, for insurance purposes, and I skip my thrift-store-paperbacks but itemize the hardbound books and the first editions and the 'good' paperbacks, I'm not saying the value of my thrift-store-paperbacks is zero, but I am saying it's so small as to be not worth noting.

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Either a fetus and a newborn are too unimportant to God that He couldn't be bothered to remember to put a value on them, or He didn't view them as full humans yet. Either way it doesn't look like God cared a lot about them. Especially when you count in all the time God told his people to bash babies heads against rocks and kill anyone who wasn't a virgin.

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Basically all this says is that the Bible is silent on the value of a child under 1 month old. This doesn't prove that God didn't value an infant or unborn child as not a person. It's even more of a stretch to say this verse promotes infanticide of those under a month old.

The part that I bolded, I want you to re-read that because that is our point.

Don't tell us that abortion is murder because the fetus is a baby and the Bible says so. By your own admission, the Bible is silent on the issue.

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The same God who told you what fibers you could wear and what birds you can eat says nothing about abortion?

He must care less about abortion than the makeup of your t-shirt. If a fetus was human, this would not be the case, would it?

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Has Numbers 5 come up? It's an interesting one. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NIV

26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.

Basically, priests are performing abortions here.

I could totally imagine women who were faithful going and doing this anyway as a form of permanent birth control or purposeful abortion.

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Jericho is willing to put take women from their families and put them in jail over something the Bible is silent on.

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Jericho, does it really make sense that god would regulate so many details in the Old Testament but fail to add something as important as abortion being wrong.

Abortion was not invented during the twentieth century. The ancient Hebrews would have known about ending pregnancies.

http://womenshistory.about.com/od/abort ... ortion.htm

Abortion was recorded in 1550 B.C.E. in Egypt, recorded in what is called the Ebers Papyrus (note 2) and in ancient China about 500 B.C.E. as well (note 3). In China, folklore dates the use of mercury to induce abortions to about 5,000 years ago (note 4). Of course, mercury is extremely toxic.

Hippocrates also offered abortion to his patients despite being opposed to pessaries and potions which he considered too dangerous. He is recorded as having instructed a prostitute to induce abortion by jumping up and down. This is certainly safer than some other methods, but rather ineffective. It is also believed that he used dilation and curettage to induce abortions as well (note 5). Abortion opponents often use the Hippocratic Oath of physicians as an argument against abortion per se, but the opposition had only to do with patient safety.

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The part that I bolded, I want you to re-read that because that is our point.

Don't tell us that abortion is murder because the fetus is a baby and the Bible says so. By your own admission, the Bible is silent on the issue.

No. What I was talking about is the Bible is silent on a monetary value, which is what that verse is talking about.

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It states in the bible that god is the same today, yeseterday and tommorrow. Jesus, according to Christians, has always existed. So, Jericho, do you believe that God just suddenly changed? Why is it all right to murder babies before Christ but not after? Does morality change? If so, how can you be certain god won't change the rules again?

Quoting this because I would love to hear the answer. Why was it okay to bash babies heads in and kill pregnant women back then?

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