"I have a personal relationship with Jesus"

[theologygeek]

Typical fundie behavior, refusing to address the argument at hand. Instead you dodge and dance around.

I will try to explain once again, just in case you really don't get it yet.

When someone makes the statement "I have a personal relationship with Jesus" what they are stating is that they are a TRUE Christian, as opposed to all those other un-true Christians who don't have the alleged personal relationship. It is a judgmental statement.

It depends who's saying it. If CC3 says it, then yeah, I agree it's judgmental, because this is the same person who said what I quoted in my last post which was also judgmental. If I say it, then it's not judgmental at all. Not that I say it, but when I think about it, sure, I have a personal relationship with him. He's my best bud too. With that said, the homeless man who believes that Jesus is God, but thinks that God abandoned him, and never prays, never goes to church, and is angry at God is just as much a Christian as anyone else. He doesn't have a personal relationship and probably doesn't want one at the moment. But he believes that Jesus is God, and that's really all one needs to be a Christian if people like CC3 want to get technical. Christians come in all walks of life, are of all denominations and no denominations. Some pray every day, and some never pray. Some go to church and some never go to church. Some are gay and some are straight. But if they believe that Jesus is God, then they're Christians. "Whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life." That's it.

[Witsec1]

Nina Hagen has a nice version of Personal Jesus too.

I'm grateful for the respect I get from most everyone on the street. I don't get punched in the face, shoved, yelled at (generally.) It is a big deal actually.

And humans made god/s in their image.

Now I have a dilemma: should I get back to work, or should I look for the Nina Hagen "Personal Jesus" online?

*opens new tab for google search*

[Confused_by_religion]

Saying one has a "personal relationship with Jesus" always seems to me like saying one has an imaginary boyfriend. You can't have a personal relationship with someone who isn't a person, can you?

[darareaksmey]

Me too, and me neither. I still say "Bless your heart," and I don't mean anything ugly by it. Urban dictionary is fun but far from authoritative.

[doe]

Me too, and me neither. I still say "Bless your heart," and I don't mean anything ugly by it. Urban dictionary is fun but far from authoritative.

It's still a habit for me to say that. It kind of slips out!

My mother was southern born and raised, and I'm not sure of her experience with the phrase growing up. I don't think I heard it used as an insult in my childhood. But I guess that goes to show you that anecdata only goes so far. You can be smack dab where things like that are happening and miss it. We also didn't go to church much and she tried to avoid snotty people whenever possible.

[debrand]

It's still a habit for me to say that. It kind of slips out!

My mother was southern born and raised, and I'm not sure of her experience with the phrase growing up. I don't think I heard it used as an insult in my childhood. But I guess that goes to show you that anecdata only goes so far. You can be smack dab where things like that are happening and miss it. We also didn't go to church much and she tried to avoid snotty people whenever possible.

I've had people use "Bless your heart" with me to express sympathy also. It's meaning changes according to the tone of the user.

[mirele]

Saying one has a "personal relationship with Jesus" always seems to me like saying one has an imaginary boyfriend. You can't have a personal relationship with someone who isn't a person, can you?

I think it's more like, you can't have a personal relationship with someone who doesn't respond back.

It really does hurt when you figure out you were deluding yourself for years, decades, by thinking you had a personal relationship with Jesus, when it was just you talking to yourself in your head.

[kittypie]

Firmly back to Christian now (and Jesus is NOT my boyfriend), but if someone asked about my agnostic years, I could always say "we were on a break!"

[dawbs]

I think it's more like, you can't have a personal relationship with someone who doesn't respond back.

It really does hurt when you figure out you were deluding yourself for years, decades, by thinking you had a personal relationship with Jesus, when it was just you talking to yourself in your head.

I think the key to being a sane religious person is to be somewhat OK w/ talking to yourself.

I'm not trying to be flip, but if one sees prayer as an attempt to contact God but, failing that, a way to meditate, do a bit of introspection and access one's own heart and soul, it makes it more palatable.

[Rachel333]

I've actually never heard "bless your heart" meant as a real insult. At the worst it's usually just really condescending. "He is so stupid, bless his heart." It's not meant to be mean, but can be anyway.

One of the fundie bloggers I read just recently converted to Catholicism and referenced the "personal relationship" issue. http://heldts.blogspot.com/2012/01/hitting-publish.html

This whole conversion experience has been incredibly humbling for me. Because I was raised in a Christian home. I was always that kid that knew the Bible stories and the Sunday School answers. I never experienced persecution or even suspicion of my beliefs. But now, in Catholic circles, I'm the new kid. The one who doesn't always know whose feast day it is and who, up until recently, would regularly genuflect on the wrong knee. And in non-Catholic circles, I feel uneasy when my daughter {proudly} shows the physical therapist her picture of Our Lady of Guadalupe. Will this woman think we don't have a personal relationship with Jesus or are trying to buy our way into Heaven or that we worship Mary?

Like her, most Catholics I've encountered don't disagree with the idea of a personal relationship with Jesus, but are offended at the suggestion that they don't have one because they are Catholic.

[valsa]

"He is so stupid, bless his heart." It's not meant to be mean, but can be anyway.

How is that not an insult?

[Rachel333]

How is that not an insult?

Because it isn't meant as one. It's not "I don't like him and he's stupid", it's "I feel bad for him because he's stupid." Pretty backhanded and I'm not defending it, but it's not quite a "fuck you".

[valsa]

Because it isn't meant as one. It's not "I don't like him and he's stupid", it's "I feel bad for him because he's stupid." Pretty backhanded and I'm not defending it, but it's not quite a "fuck you".

Personally, I consider it just as bad as a "fuck you", if not worse. There's something distasteful about condescending pity.

[Terrie]

Personally, I consider it just as bad as a "fuck you", if not worse. There's something distasteful about condescending pity.

It's passive-aggressive, instead of outright aggressive. But still insulting.

[Rachel333]

Personally, I consider it just as bad as a "fuck you", if not worse. There's something distasteful about condescending pity.

Oh, definitely.

In fairness, most of the time it really is meant to be nice and not used like in the example I gave.

[Swamptribe]

Typical fundie behavior, refusing to address the argument at hand. Instead you dodge and dance around.

I will try to explain once again, just in case you really don't get it yet.

When someone makes the statement "I have a personal relationship with Jesus" what they are stating is that they are a TRUE Christian, as opposed to all those other un-true Christians who don't have the alleged personal relationship. It is a judgmental statement.[/quot

I don't think you are capable of understanding what I am trying to tell you. You should go back and read what I wrote when you are not so angry. I never said I tell other people besides my friends I have personal relationship with Jesus, but you seem to want to make a point that Christians are imbeciles so feel free. You don't seem to understand what you are saying is insulting but you are very thin skinned with others. Good luck to you.

It's funny, but fundies always fall back on that old canard "you're angry", when frankly, they are the ones that seem to be angry and frustrated. Please do not project your anger and frustration onto me.

The problem is, you don't realize what statements such as 'personal relationship with Jesus' really mean when you say them. You only use such a statement to differentiate yourself from those who say they are Christians, but in your opinion, aren't 'real Christians'. To use some of the vernacular from this board, you're claiming to be Jesus's* special little Snowflake.

Also, in case you haven't noticed, many Christians have posted very thoughtful comments (some very funny) in this very thread. Or, are you trying to say that you don't consider them to be 'real Christians' either? Mayhaps your Freudian slip is showing.

* I once got a couple of posters into an argument over the proper plural possessive form for Jesus. I believe they finally agreed on some Latin version which I can't remember. Jeususi or some such thing.

[Swamptribe]

Oh, definitely.

In fairness, most of the time it really is meant to be nice and not used like in the example I gave.

Oddly enough, I have never really known anyone, but co-worker and the occasional little old lady, to use it in the nice way.

[JesusFightClub]

Re: "Bless his heart". I realised from reading FJ I use a variant. "Dinnae get me wrong, I mean, God bless him, but..." ;) Or as some people would say "No offence, he's a *lovely* guy, but..."

Mind you, can imagine old ladies looking fondly at, say, a kitten with a ball of wool, and saying "Bless his wee heart" while MEANING it. It is no wonder English is one of the hardest languages to learn.

[CC3]

It's funny, but fundies always fall back on that old canard "you're angry", when frankly, they are the ones that seem to be angry and frustrated. Please do not project your anger and frustration onto me.

The problem is, you don't realize what statements such as 'personal relationship with Jesus' really mean when you say them. You only use such a statement to differentiate yourself from those who say they are Christians, but in your opinion, aren't 'real Christians'. To use some of the vernacular from this board, you're claiming to be Jesus's* special little Snowflake.

Also, in case you haven't noticed, many Christians have posted very thoughtful comments (some very funny) in this very thread. Or, are you trying to say that you don't consider them to be 'real Christians' either? Mayhaps your Freudian slip is showing.

* I once got a couple of posters into an argument over the proper plural possessive form for Jesus. I believe they finally agreed on some Latin version which I can't remember. Jeususi or some such thing.

I don't know what to say other than this: I am frustrated that you don't understand my viewpoint and can't open your mind even one sliver to understand having a personal relationship is not a put-down to you or anyone else. Perhaps you think it is delusional or prideful. I am sure the context of which it is said makes a difference. The written word leaves much room for interpretation either positive or negative. Most people don't have bad intentions when they speak. I don't and I hope you don't either. I am not saying I am better than anyone else or I am special. My spouse is Catholic. I would never insult the Catholic faith or any other Christian faith. Maybe you have been hurt personally by "expressions of faith" which were meant as insults. If I touched a nerve, I am sorry. I don't know how this thread went so far off the deep end, so I won't write anything else on this topic. Peace. :D

[Soldevi]

I stumbled on this: http://cslacker.com/images/view/9293 How true.

[Guest Anonymous]

I stumbled on this: http://cslacker.com/images/view/9293 How true.

Brilliant. :P

[valsa]

I don't know what to say other than this: I am frustrated that you don't understand my viewpoint and can't open your mind even one sliver to understand having a personal relationship is not a put-down to you or anyone else. Perhaps you think it is delusional or prideful. I am sure the context of which it is said makes a difference. The written word leaves much room for interpretation either positive or negative. Most people don't have bad intentions when they speak. I don't and I hope you don't either. I am not saying I am better than anyone else or I am special. My spouse is Catholic. I would never insult the Catholic faith or any other Christian faith. Maybe you have been hurt personally by "expressions of faith" which were meant as insults. If I touched a nerve, I am sorry. I don't know how this thread went so far off the deep end, so I won't write anything else on this topic. Peace. :D

CC3, do you believe there is any Christian who does not have a personal relationship with Jesus?

[Swamptribe]

CC3, do you believe there is any Christian who does not have a personal relationship with Jesus?

Excellent question valsa.

CCC3. Again, with the cliche's. "You must have been hurt". Is that really what you've been taught, that people who disagree with you must be judged as being angry or hurt?

Frankly, I find it amusing, and very sad at the same time, that you don't have a clue as to what you are really saying to people.

[dawbs]

I'm on the 'it's not always a putdown' bandwagon, but you do realize that cuts both ways, right?

Your insistence that people shouldn't be offended is having a closed mind and is an insistance that your way of viewing it is the right way.

Not having 'bad intentions' doesn't make something any less prideful, hurtful, or insensitive.

(I'll go out on a limb and say if your first post hadn't been written with the (insensitive, IMO) implication that you assumed your audience was theistic and believed in a God, you'd have gotten a much warmer reception.

That's not 'intentionally hurtful' but it IS insensitive, and, of COURSE it strikes a nerve when people with 'non-mainstream' beliefs are subjected to prejudice and insensitivity, both subtle and blatant, all the dang time)

[darareaksmey]

It's still a habit for me to say that. It kind of slips out!

My mother was southern born and raised, and I'm not sure of her experience with the phrase growing up. I don't think I heard it used as an insult in my childhood. But I guess that goes to show you that anecdata only goes so far. You can be smack dab where things like that are happening and miss it. We also didn't go to church much and she tried to avoid snotty people whenever possible.

Totally apropos of nothing, but just to broaden everyone's understanding, here are some examples of when I would use "Bless your heart" and mean it in a sincere way:

1. My two-year-old picks a weed out of the yard and brings it to me as a gift. I say "Bless your heart!" meaning, what a lovely thing to do!

2. Elderly gent with cane stumbles in stairwell. As I help him, I say "Bless your heart for having to take the stairs. Those damned elevators take forever."

3. DH knows I've had a sucky day at work, so when I get home he has fixed dinner. I say "Bless your heart! You are an angel!" Etc., etc., additional mushy stuff, closely followed in most instances by insinuations on his part that I could thank him in some other way. ;)

I guess what I'm saying is, I've always used the phrase to indicate that someone or something has done something that has touched me. Maybe I should add my 2 cents to Urban Dictionary.