Duggars weird incestuous fascination

[freejoytoo]

But if you're a little girl, why should it matter how you sit? Why should it matter any more that your underwear is showing if your brother's is as well? I don't see the need for teaching little girls to sit 'like ladies'. I can understand telling kids not to show their underwear when they're sitting down but that should apply to boys, not just girls. Little girls aren't ladies - they're little girls! It's like when they're given two piece swimming costumes before they even have boobs. How is a six-year-old showing her chest any more immodest than a boy showing his?

[AmyP]

I think that all (boys and girls) need to be taught that certain clothing is appropriate in certain situations, but not others. Clothing that is appropriate at a club is not appropriate at the office. Something you might wear on the boardwalk at the beach is not necessarily the best choice for the church picnic. I don't think you need to make much more of it than that.

[valsa]

But if you're a little girl, why should it matter how you sit? Why should it matter any more that your underwear is showing if your brother's is as well? I don't see the need for teaching little girls to sit 'like ladies'. I can understand telling kids not to show their underwear when they're sitting down but that should apply to boys, not just girls. Little girls aren't ladies - they're little girls! It's like when they're given two piece swimming costumes before they even have boobs. How is a six-year-old showing her chest any more immodest than a boy showing his?

QFT.

Why should a little girl have to "sit like a lady"? If we're talking about "sit so your underwear doesn't show", shouldn't you tell all kids to "sit like boys and girls whose underwear aren't showing"?

[Rachel333]

That's why I feel bad for little girls who wear skirts all the time. They're restricted from lots of normal kid activities because their underwear might show.

I remember my parents reading us this story from a series of books about a Mennonite family where a little girl had to learn that it wasn't ladylike or modest to do somersaults even though her brothers could. By the end of the story she learned her lesson and was happy sitting quietly on the sofa holding a baby. I hated that story.

[freejoytoo]

I think there are an incredible amount of double standards and a lot more pressure on girls to be modest, even before puberty. It makes me really angry, especially when it's placed on small girls who are physically no different than boys from the waist up.

[debrand]

We homeschool but I don't think that anyone would think that we are lazy if my kids eat breakfast in their pjs. They go into their brother's room and watch his TV while they are in their pjs also. Somehow everyone manages to be dressed before nine in the morning.

I don't get the no pj downstairs rule either. Don't they ever come downstairs for a late night snack?

If they only wanted to prevent the perception that they are lazy, why should the rule apply to the older kids? Don't the older Duggar kids get to set their own bedtimes? No one is going to think a family is lazy because early in the morning or late at night, they have on nightclothes.

[debrand]

My oldest went through a period where she wanted to wear dresses all the time. I was lucky and found some cotton, play dresses but I didn't want her to have to restrict her behavior so we always put shorts under her clothing. My youngest daughter went through a long period(it seemed to me) where she liked to throw her church dresses over her head. No matter how often she was told not to do it, the bottom of that dress ended up over her head.

Now both my girls hate dresses. However, they would do the Duggars proud in the modesty department. I have no idea why but they seem to be very concerned with covering everything. This phase will probably pass.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

My oldest went through a period where she wanted to wear dresses all the time. I was lucky and found some cotton, play dresses but I didn't want her to have to restrict her behavior so we always put shorts under her clothing.

We do this with my skirt/dress obsessed daughter too, plus scooters (skirts with the built-in shorts) are insanely popular nowadays, so that helps. In the cooler weather I figure tights do a good enough job of covering her undies (she is 6 and realizes she can't flash her panties at the world anymore, esp at school, but she has no problem doing it at home. I still think she's be naked half the time if it were warm enough.).

[The Archivist]

Aside from the brief period of running around naked prior to age 8, I was (and still am) pretty modest in what I wear. I just like to keep my body to myself, though I really am not uncomfortable with other people who show more skin. The only thing that squicks me out is seeing some girl's thong hanging out the ass of her lowriders, or dudes who think it's a great idea to wear shorts in the summer with no underwear beneath (wtf???)

[Conuly]

But if you're a little girl, why should it matter how you sit? Why should it matter any more that your underwear is showing if your brother's is as well? I don't see the need for teaching little girls to sit 'like ladies'. I can understand telling kids not to show their underwear when they're sitting down but that should apply to boys, not just girls. Little girls aren't ladies - they're little girls! It's like when they're given two piece swimming costumes before they even have boobs. How is a six-year-old showing her chest any more immodest than a boy showing his?

You know, I *wish* more parents would teach their boys to sit with their legs shut. It's insane that you have to tell people on the train or bus to shut their damn legs so other people can sit down. Guys? Your penis doesn't need its own seat. It's not that big, and it will NOT get crushed if you shut your legs.

[narcoleption reflux]

Er, sorry, I forgot how that sounds! No, being arrested is not part of my daily, weekly or yearly life ;) (Bloody hell, I have a tin ear when it comes to appropriateness).

In my bad luck I opened a door on police who detained me (I had rather not say the charge, but I was innocent of it.) After the fact of being detained at home I was really jumpy about answering the door for ages - for a while I wouldn't, and now I will but must be clothed. I am a law abiding type as a rule, so I never expected that, and for a while I was really worried it would happen again.

Funny story (now), my brother-in-law was arrested a few years ago on a pot charge at his home. It was Halloween, and he was dressed as Superman.

[ladypuglover]

Growing up I was a little nudest by my choice not my mother's. I was the type of kid who had to be watched at all times in public because if I got hot I would strip down and not care who saw what. I was more embaressed to be seen in my jammies in public that naked. I also had to strip down to nothing to use the bathroom. Thankfully my first grade teacher helped me over come that over the course of the year and I mostly out grew that. By the time I was 10 or 11 my dad had to have a talk with me that he didn't want me running around topless anymore in public. I was getting the skeeter bite look on my chest and it was time to wear clothes to cover myself even if it was an undershirt only. His reasoning was that I must be getting tired of getting bug bites, sunburns and scrapes on my torso and wearing clothes would stop that from happening. Modesty at home came in high school for me where I made sure that my panties couldn't be seen by male family members. I was a very late bloomer in modesty and no one made a big deal over it.

My sons were little nudests as well and I got in spades what my parents went through. So bad with the middle boy that from having to chase him down right after our shower that the wind had me running the same streets naked as I had 25 years before. :shock: So far it seems that my sons are on track with me and get modesty in high school. The little ones still strip down to their underwear to relax at home but they do feel very modest if caught by unexpected visitors. Then there is a mad rush to find discarded pants. We don't make a big deal about it because no one is defrauded by it at home. Granted we have only sons but even when my nephews and neice got into the mix, everyone would still be hanging out in unders or sweatpants. The kids not the adults. By the time my neice hit puberty, she would wear jammy pants and a tee shirt in the morning and no one would blink an eye. Why would we, she was family not a real girl according to her brothers and all male cousins.

Childhood nudeity or closs to it is normal. You try to teach you kids to keep their clothes on in public but one hissy fit can have you with a very angry toddler who refuses to put his clothes back on while in the mall, fountain in the park, at the zoo or at preschool. You just suck it up and treat it like you do any temper fit and carry the child off to calm down privately. IT only becomes a problem if he is still doing at his 50th wedding anv. ;)

[JesusFightClub]

Narcoleption, that is brilliant :D Did they let him change or was he lifted like that?

[Sola]

We homeschool but I don't think that anyone would think that we are lazy if my kids eat breakfast in their pjs. They go into their brother's room and watch his TV while they are in their pjs also. Somehow everyone manages to be dressed before nine in the morning.

I don't get the no pj downstairs rule either. Don't they ever come downstairs for a late night snack?

If they only wanted to prevent the perception that they are lazy, why should the rule apply to the older kids? Don't the older Duggar kids get to set their own bedtimes? No one is going to think a family is lazy because early in the morning or late at night, they have on nightclothes.

My daughter always eats breakfast in her pj's. But she is such a messy eater with her tremor that it makes no sense putting clean clothes on her before she has eaten, I'd only be changing her again afterwards. On school days she has her breakfst, then gets washed and dressed. On weekends we are often in our pj's until lunchtime!

I really don't get the whole unmodest in pj's thing. You are covered just as much in pj's as you in regular clothes.

[browngrl]

If I am working outside the home - I change into my pi's the second I am home. I am on of those that needs support for the girls so I do wear one of those stretchy lycra "comfort" bras at home. In the morning I tend to wander around in my underwear till the last second possible (before I have to get dressed to leave) AND I tend to be forgetful in the morning. So I have learned it is always best to ask "are you wearing pants" before leaving the house.

[AnnieC 305]

Now my husband gets up and in the shower and dressed right off, at least in hemp pants and a comfy t-shirt if we're only going to be around the house all day, or if he's going to be changing into gym clothes soon after breakfast.

Me? I must have that first cup in front of the computer in my PJ's. After that it's either gym clothes or my work at home "uniform", a denim skirt, tank top and big apron. And I am one of those who needs to support the girls or get back pain.

If I hung around in my PJ's all day nothing would get done.

[theologygeek]

Er, sorry, I forgot how that sounds! No, being arrested is not part of my daily, weekly or yearly life ;) (Bloody hell, I have a tin ear when it comes to appropriateness).

In my bad luck I opened a door on police who detained me (I had rather not say the charge, but I was innocent of it.) After the fact of being detained at home I was really jumpy about answering the door for ages - for a while I wouldn't, and now I will but must be clothed. I am a law abiding type as a rule, so I never expected that, and for a while I was really worried it would happen again.

I bursted out laughing over "the last time I was arrested" comment. LOL It doesn't matter what the charge was. I'd like you anyway because you have a rebel streak in you and I love rebels.

[Ozzie]

I'm told I was a very nekkid kid, when some kids in the family were babies, the easiest way to get them over a screaming fit was to make the clothes disappear/and maybe give them a bath. INSTANT happy baby. It was amazing. Our (USA-centric here) culture is so neurotic about the naked, I wish more kids had an environment where they could feel comfortable just being themselves. :-\

[freejoytoo]

When I was in the first two years primary school (age 4-6) children didn't have a PE kit. We all did PE in our underwear and to me it makes a lot of sense. It's one less thing for the parents to worry about, it takes longer to get small children ready for the lesson and it's just easier to do it in your vest and knickers for half an hour. We did this until we were in Year Two (age 6-7). My friend was rather shocked by this, which I didn't understand - for one thing she's very far from being prudish and also, we were very small children. There was nothing inappropriate about it, unless you want to argue about danger to child safety. I also find it strange when people complain about two-year-olds running around naked on the beach. How is that inappropriate? A two-year-old has no concept of modesty and should just be free to be themselves.

[JesusFightClub]

I bursted out laughing over "the last time I was arrested" comment. LOL It doesn't matter what the charge was. I'd like you anyway because you have a rebel streak in you and I love rebels.

Aw, thank you! You are kind :)

TBH it can happen to anyone nowadays. But having eight officers (why eight? talk about overkill) burst through your door, search your home and detain you is a bit annoying. This is why I have a peephole on my door now.

[Sola]

When I was in the first two years primary school (age 4-6) children didn't have a PE kit. We all did PE in our underwear and to me it makes a lot of sense. It's one less thing for the parents to worry about, it takes longer to get small children ready for the lesson and it's just easier to do it in your vest and knickers for half an hour. We did this until we were in Year Two (age 6-7). My friend was rather shocked by this, which I didn't understand - for one thing she's very far from being prudish and also, we were very small children. There was nothing inappropriate about it, unless you want to argue about danger to child safety. I also find it strange when people complain about two-year-olds running around naked on the beach. How is that inappropriate? A two-year-old has no concept of modesty and should just be free to be themselves.

Yeah we did the same, up until half way through the juniors (age 8 to 9). It was just the done thing 35 years ago. Now my daughter has had full PE kit since nursery (age 3). I don't find naked youngsters to be an issue, and actually find a naked toddler, running around letting their bits go free is quite cute - well as long as it's not running down the street that is! LIttle kids don't understand nor would feel immodest. It is our views of modesty that we put on them.

[freejoytoo]

I started primary school in 1993 and they were still doing it when I left in 2000, but when I went back to volunteer, around 2006, they were making the Reception class put on PE kits. It's daft to make them bother with that when they're four. Still, they did get to run around a small sprinkler in their underwear (it was very hot) and I was very jealous. We never got that!

ETA: I also remember that if you forgot your PE kit in Juniors you had to do it in your pants (underwear, not trousers for any Americans reading!) I remember a funny story read to us about a girl having to do it in her embarrassing knickers but then the boy who teased her had the same issue a week later!

[LIzzieB]

I started at an all-girls private school in Year 6, and we had a strict uniform policy. The junior primary kids (age 4-7) had little open-sided pinafores to wear during the day over their uniform to keep it clean. On really hot days, they were allowed to take off their uniform and wear just their pinnies over their knickers. We often looked wistfully over at the "littles", running through the sprinklers at lunch time, with matching pale blue pinnies and navy knickers. It looked so carefree!

This would have been 1988 - things have definitely changed. I can't see that you would EVER allow kids to do that now. I do, however, teach an extra-curricular class at co-ed primary school, and we often come out of our room to see the Year 1 & 2 ballet class stripping off their leotards & tights after class to change into their uniform, but this is in a small studio only visible to a small number of students and teachers, not the whole school community nor visitors.

[freejoytoo]

I remember one very hot day when I was six or seven sitting in the playground and my friend and I were so hot we ended up taking off all our clothes other than our underwear. An older girl saw us and said we were too old to be doing that but neither of us had considered it being a problem. Our only concept of modesty was that you shouldn't run around naked or something. We were just very, very hot and thought we had had a good idea. That would have been in the mid-nineties.

I think there is a hyper-awareness about children's sexuality today. I obviously approve safeguards that ensure children's safety but I think it's kind of sad that people get suspicious if a young man wants to be a teacher or think it's odd that a male friend of some parents enjoys taking their children to the playground or something.

[narcoleption reflux]

Narcoleption, that is brilliant :D Did they let him change or was he lifted like that?

Sorry for the late reply, JFC. Yes, Brother Jon was taken to jail, photographed as Superman, and released wearing the same garb. He has prints of the mug-shots. My husband and I have seen them, although his mom and bride-to-be have not. Jon's getting married in two months. Might make a good toast, you think?