Flirty Fishing

[ThisOlGirl]

I honestly can't remember how I stumbled upon this last night. Apparently, Flirty Fishing was a name for prostitution as a way to gain converts to Children of God/The Family. They reference the "Fishers of Men" verse as a way to justify all this. I'm only now starting to dig around for more info, but it appears this started in the 70's and really only stopped because of the AIDS scare in the early to mid 80's. They have tracts (or what looks like maybe comic books?) about it and everything. Was this a well known, well publicized thing, or did it only come out after they stopped? I'm really interested in finding out more about how all this worked. Did actual money change hands? Was it set up like an escort service, or were these women more like streetwalker types? Were they forced into it or did they do it on their own (although I think I know the answer to that one already ). I'm usually not this fascinated by prostitutes, but compared to what I'm used to reading about all of our fundies, this is out there! This also makes me want to read more about Children of God/The Family (this is the same cult that a few celebrities grew up in right? I think Rose McGowen is one?)

 

Anyway, enough with all my rambling. Just wondering if anyone knows anything about this, since I recall Children of God being mentioned a couple times.

[Rosa]

I've read a few books about them, including one memoir and one i think was ghostwritten?

Anyway, money wasn't supposed to change hands, but some of the groups were so broke, it turned into sex-for-survival and sex-for-pay at least part of the time. The doctrine was that it was just supposed to be a recruitment tactic (our women are hot! And we believe in free love!)

The one book is really true-crime style, about the kid raised as a prophet/prince, sexually abused, and then pretty much abandoned - he tried to go kill the leaders and ended up killing himself.

I'm still trying to lay hands on a copy of another memoir, called Not Without My Sister.

[Maul the Koala]

Here's an article that explains Flirty Fishing much better than I would be able to.

http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Flirty_Fishing

I don't believe it was like prostitution in the street but towards the end they did have an escort service going.

Rosa, I've read Not Without My Sister. It's a decent read, although it jumps all over the place since the 3 sisters had different experiences and it's hard to remember who is who.

[The Archivist]

It was a thing they practiced, yes, but from what I understand it was kept pretty close to the church and the information was only widely disseminated in recent years. The most horrific thing about them, by far, however, was the child abuse, much of it sexual.

I've watched a documentary about the boy, Ricky Rodriguez - he was called Davidito as a kid - who grew up to eventually shoot his mother and himself. Here it is:

[Maul the Koala]

Yeah Ricky was one of the 'Jesus babies'. Those were children conceived during the whole 'flirty fishing' encounters. Those children were held in pretty high regard.

The entire cult is sickening.

[ThisOlGirl]

Thanks for the links. Definitely will be watching the movie this weekend. I'm skimming through the XFamily link and Google, and the phrase 'hookers for Jesus' just sparked a memory. I think I actually saw something about these crazies on 20/20 or 60 minutes, but that was over 20 years ago, so I don't remember much about it.

[JenniferJuniper]

This also makes me want to read more about Children of God/The Family (this is the same cult that a few celebrities grew up in right? I think Rose McGowen is one?)

River and Joaquin Phoenix's family were members.

River once said he "lost his virginity" at the age of 4, but later retracted it, saying he was joking. However, from what I know about this cult, it was very possibly true.

[Rosa]

Oh whoah, I had missed that they used actual escort agencies.

[Maul the Koala]

River and Joaquin Phoenix's family were members.

River once said he "lost his virginity" at the age of 4, but later retracted it, saying he was joking. However, from what I know about this cult, it was very possibly true.

Yeah I'm going to spoiler the following since some of it might be very triggering.

Children were encouraged to have sex with each other at naptime. In Not Without My Sister, one of the women states that the children would just imitate the adults since adults freely had sex around anyone and everyone. The adults were given lube and the children were given baby oil.

There are scenes in Not Without My Sister that talk about adults trying to perform oral sex on infants among other things.

[Patsy]

Yeah, I heard about them through Ricky Rodriguez' story. He murdered a woman he thought babysat and sexually abused him as a child. I believe he intended to then murder his mother, Karen Zerby, who also sexually abused him from a very young age, but he killed himself before that happened. It's pretty much fact that she abused him (though officially denied), but she continues to run 'The Family' and hasn't been arrested for any of her crimes.

[koolmom]

Living in SoCal during the 70's, I heard about this particular group, esp. from kids who encountered them in the beach areas of our city.

If you think "FLDS with a nod to the 70's Free Love era", you've got it down pat. Girls were advised to dress sexy to lure male converts in and many of the girls had babies, as pointed out above. Their head honcho was a sleazebag named David Berg. They also stopped operating because the state governments, cops, etc. started getting wise to their shenanigans.

[ukool23]

I read Not without my sister, a few years ago. Its well worth a read. This cult is pretty messed up from what i remember, is it still going?

[LIzzieB]

I've read Not Without My Sister as well - there were some seriously horrible things going on there. In addition to institutionalised sexual abuse, there was also psychological and physical abuse for adult and child members. They also split up family groups and people were forced to choose new names, so it's now very difficult for family members to find each other and reunite. The group is still going but reports say that the sexual practises have been toned down, and children are supposedly "off-limits". Makes me shudder to type that.

I would advise you to go carefully looking at some of the online documentation on ex-Family/ex-CoG sites, as former members have attempted to make as much of it available as possible so that the group can't say it didn't happen. There's some pretty explicit stuff and may be triggers for some people.

[clover_leigh]

Yes,I recall hearing Rose Mcgowan talking about this.

[The Archivist]

They definitely still exist:

thefamilyinternational.org/

And I saw the same interview with Rose McGowan - it was on the Roseanne show. It's on Youtube, just search for "Rose McGowan interview 1999" or something.