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Be careful what you wish for feminists!


Doomed Harlottt

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My non-expert commentary: I've been on three cruises in my life. One with Carnival, one with Royal Caribbean, one with Norwegian Cruise Line. At the start of each cruise, before the boat set sail, there was a safety drill. Everyone was expected to meet at their "muster station" (I think that was what it was called). Your muster station was assigned by your cabin number, and was also printed on your ship identification card (which you were always supposed to have on you). In the case of a real emergency where the ship might have to be evacuated, this was where you were to meet to get into a lifeboat when the alarms sounded. The last cruise I was on was just last year, and the crew members also assigned to our muster station had a list of all passengers they were responsible for, and were checking our names off the list as we arrived. I never recall during any of these safety drills anyone stating that in the event of a real emergency, women and children would be loaded into the lifeboats first. The goal was to get everyone off the ship.

All this to say, knowing how (from my limited experience) a cruise ship is supposed to be evacuated in the case of a real emergency, this was such a tragic event. I know how during times of a real disaster even the best-laid plans can go awry (I'm a Red Cross disaster volunteer), but it certainly sounds like proper procedures were not initiated the way they should have been. Which would not have been the fault of any feminists, but the crew in charge of the ship and the safety of its passengers.

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The commenter would probably blame his Italian heritage for Columbus discovering America "by accident."

Technically he wasn't Italian. He hailed from the Italian peninsula, but his origin was Genovese. The country known as "Italy" did not exsit until the 1870s.

In any case, he didn't exactly find what he was looking for when he "discovered America". :D

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Should I mention as well that John Cabot was really Giovanni Caboto?

In any event, to evacuate, I wouldn't expect "women and children first". I'd expect families to be kept together where possible, and for the most efficient process to be used to get everyone off ASAP. If you start separating and choosing, you waste time - and in this case, time mattered because it became impossible to use the lifeboats as the angle of the tipping increased.

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I would expect children (with their parents of course for safety reasons), the elderly and disabled people to be put on lifeboats first. Because, if the shit really hit the fan, they can't tread water long enough for rescuers to arrive. I at least have a chance. Well, I am afraid of fish/water, so I might hyperventilate first! But nonetheless, I definitely would fare better in open ocean than my 4 yo.

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Another historical pet-peeve, but it pisses me off to no end that fundies constantly misuse the word "chivalry". Just like "high tea" is not just a fancy expression for "tea", "chivalry" is not a fancy word for men opening doors, but a term that encompasses the code of behavior of a medieval knight. "Courteous behavior toward women" is part of that code, but that's not all of it, and of course it only pertains to certain kinds of women. It's also a total construct that had very little to do with the way medieval knights actually behaved. You don't have to be a history nerd to understand that the chivalrous knights raped peasant girls while venerating chaste married Ladies.

Also, using the reverse of the Fishwife's logic, I could also say that men are unfit to drive cruise ships because the captain's recklessness is a typical display of male machismo, and that you're better off with a woman driving the ship because she wouldn't take risks with the safety of hundreds of people just to demonstrate the hugeness of her penis.

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The media reports coming tell us that most of the people died because they were willing to give up their places in the queue, to let other people particulary women and children left. The woman who reported this is an idiot, feminist has not altered the inhent goodness that exists in some people resulting in some making the final ultimate saciric. Feminist cannot undo the fact that some men still have the inherent desire to save women and children before themselves but still respect women as their equals.

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The non thinking housewife pisses me off, just as Lydia Sherman does. They use tragedies and disasters to further their own sick agenda. Lydia was pissed that women fled Hurricane Katrina in their pajamas and shorts and used that to jump into her typical 'women suck unless they're in 19th century dresses' bullshit. The non thinking bitch uses a disaster to, yet again, blame feminists for all the evil in the world.

Both are sick and twisted and both need to have their mouths taped shut. It's abhorrent to use tragedy and disaster to further your own agenda.

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Laura/Laurence has been griping non-stop at the Stinking Lousewife's blog and over at VFR about the superiority of male pilots. They've been mocking female pilots. They can't really back up their claims about the superiority, so they've resorted to ad hominen types of attacks. The captain in this case was pretty much the direct opposite of a Sullenberg pilot. I can just see the L/L's claiming that the Italian/race of the captain overcame his inherent manly virtues. If only he was a black or a Jew, the dynamic duo would really have a field day.

I loathe the Stinking Fishwife. seriously, lots of loathing here.

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The difference between you and her is that you don't automatically group women as "vulnerable."

That's just it. Patriarchal types start with the premise that women are [more] vulnerable. They have to, otherwise their ideology doesn't work. It's not surprising to me that someone with a flawed presupposition would come to the wrong conclusion(s). I don't want men making sacrifices for me or treating me a certain way because I'm a woman. I think this is frightening for some men; men who, for whatever reason, seem to need gender roles in order to feel secure in themselves.

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Laura/Laurence has been griping non-stop at the Stinking Lousewife's blog and over at VFR about the superiority of male pilots. They've been mocking female pilots. They can't really back up their claims about the superiority, so they've resorted to ad hominen types of attacks. The captain in this case was pretty much the direct opposite of a Sullenberg pilot. I can just see the L/L's claiming that the Italian/race of the captain overcame his inherent manly virtues. If only he was a black or a Jew, the dynamic duo would really have a field day.

I loathe the Stinking Fishwife. seriously, lots of loathing here.

Seconding the Lousewife hate. When you read "her" posts, you can see that "she" has an utterly stupid and malicious take on almost everything in life and "her" commenters are, if possible, even worse.

I've been on a commercial flight with a female pilot and when a woman's voice came over the PA "This is your captain speaking..." there was an audible groan from the men on board. A lot of them even got a bit panicky (this was a planeload full of drunk Glaswegians, so you can imagine).

It wasn't any different to a male pilot flying it but it was annoying at the end because bad conditions and a shitload of turbulence meant she had to wait ages to land and when she did it was bumpy. So a chorus from the back of "Told ye, women cannae fuckin' park, hahahaha". Honestly though how would possessing a penis change weather conditions or holding patterns? Do they think if she announced to the control tower "I DO have a knob, you know" they would have let us down first?

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In any event, to evacuate, I wouldn't expect "women and children first". I'd expect families to be kept together where possible, and for the most efficient process to be used to get everyone off ASAP. If you start separating and choosing, you waste time - and in this case, time mattered because it became impossible to use the lifeboats as the angle of the tipping increased.

This! Could you imagine the pandaemonium involved if you were separating families in the situation of catastrophe? At the time, or at the muster once back on land. Finding out what happened to others in your family unit would be the No1 priority; everything else be damned.

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I think that people who can't swim, should be counted as vulnerable as well. It doesn't matter if they are strong and healthy. They simply can't help themselves in that particular situation. In that situation they are disabled.

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I am thinking about the World Trade Center. They had regular disaster drills, so the people who worked in the buildings had disaster training. I think that from the stories of the survivors, we can surmise that vulneraility was often determined by behavior and circumstance. I am certain that people who were generally disabled were so recognized during the drills. On a ship, this would also be the case, had they done the drills when they were supposed to have done them. Even normally able-bodied folks can become vulnerable in a situation like this. When you recognize that someone is struggling, it would be sensible to assist them.

Overall, the disaster was caused by the poor judgement and cowardice of one man, the captain. Even had he not done stupid things that ultimately caused the accident, had the passengers and crew had practiced the drill, the pandemonium that occured would have been far less and I strongly suspect that the casualties/fatalities would also have been reduced. A stupid and cowardly captain was the problem and would have been the problem even if the capatin had been female.

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