Bittners/By Grace Alone

[debrand]

That's what I believe because the family had her laptop and cell phone in possession from the time she was there until the time she ran away and if it was such a loving home why would she risk being a run away and trying to bum it on the streets as a fundie girl with almost no support or life experience. I honestly believe there is another adult involved in this and there is more going on that meets the eye. One the article where it stated her disappearance some posters said that the church where she was last seen was very closed off and basically had armed guards at the door. This to me sounds like a twisted web of fundie cover up and abuse.

This story gets worse and worse. :(

[Discobiscuit]

Yes, a couple of comments made some jabs at the "Chapel" that she walked away from. It made me wonder what people knew about that.

[demgirl]

I hope her lawyer gets enough information and researches enough to understand the mores and practices of a fundamentalist culture and how that could have come into play in the situation. I worry you'd need psychiatric evaluations and experts on the culture to testify and if she has a P.D., she's not going to have the funds in all likelihood to get that stuff.

[fundifugee]

As far as reports - news or otherwise - not all rapes are reported, most are not. If this one was not, I hope it was her decision not to report it and not the Headship's.

And if my sister ever posted on her blog that I had a "pubic infection", her computers would meet a nasty end and I would make sure she regretted ever typing my name.

[ceg045]

And if my sister ever posted on her blog that I had a "pubic infection", her computers would meet a nasty end and I would make sure she regretted ever typing my name.

Screw her computer, my sister would meet a nasty end.

Okay, I don't have a sister, but you get the point. :whistle:

[Drunkenbutterfly]

Am I the only one who is squicked out by the oldest brother in that family? The body language between he and his sisters in the photographs makes my skin crawl. (But then, I come from a long line of staunchly British prudes, so it might just be my upbringing showing :)

Yep, that always made me feel uncomfy...I don't have siblings, so I can't tell what is the standard in hugging and such, but it seemed awfully close to me.

I am glad that someone mentioned this great unassisted birth story. I can't imagine delivering my siblings, when it would mean to have a good close-up look to my mom's vagina. Yuck! Nor would I asked my own children to do that...

[Deleted03]

As far as reports - news or otherwise - not all rapes are reported, most are not. If this one was not, I hope it was her decision not to report it and not the Headship's.

And if my sister ever posted on her blog that I had a "pubic infection", her computers would meet a nasty end and I would make sure she regretted ever typing my name.

is it legal not to report a gang rape on a minor? I doubt she had the ability to know what reporting or not would mean. If you mean just news then yeah... still weird... news report can't use minors' names right? still, might want to say something to warn other joggers...

[Clementine]

Yep, that always made me feel uncomfy...I don't have siblings, so I can't tell what is the standard in hugging and such, but it seemed awfully close to me.

I am glad that someone mentioned this great unassisted birth story. I can't imagine delivering my siblings, when it would mean to have a good close-up look to my mom's vagina. Yuck! Nor would I asked my own children to do that...

I have had the same thoughts about the oldest brother. I wonder why he was allowed to stay in Washington when they moved to Maryland - he was still quite young. And now he has a "girlfriend". It doesn't say that they are "courting" anywhere, just that they are in a relationship...?

[mirele]

I just feel her attorney needs to know about everything we've posted here. He/she needs to know how isolated she was kept, how her phone and computer were taken away, and that she really could have been set up. It's bad enough that her family follows Gothard but he father is also military, and the military knows how to cover facts up.

This. This. This.

I want Priscilla not to be railroaded but helped.

[Drunkenbutterfly]

I have had the same thoughts about the oldest brother. I wonder why he was allowed to stay in Washington when they moved to Maryland - he was still quite young. And now he has a "girlfriend". It doesn't say that they are "courting" anywhere, just that they are in a relationship...?

I always thought that he kind of tricked them to be able to stay there..."bla, bla, serious filming business going on, already a great network in WA to set it up". IIRC, he had to stay with another family there, but eventually moved out to his own place. What were the parents supposed to do then, living far away and such? So eventually, he made his way out of fundi-ism. He wasn't that young though, like 20 or 21. As for the courtship, I doubt he is taking that road, but that girl is a christian( and seems really nice+normal+educated+working), too. So I guess, they will just date and see how that goes.

ETA: Wasn't he one of Douggie's lovely interns?

[Drunkenbutterfly]

I want Priscilla not to be railroaded but helped.

THIS!

I can't stand the thought that someone else screwed her up like that and now she is held soly responsible for her actions.

EDIT for typo. Not my day.

[uber frau]

This was one of the first fundie blogs I found but I haven't really followed it closely because it's always skived me out-the happy, smiling faces seemed unnatural somehow. The list of links to recommended sites like NGJ didn't help.

PID was the first thing that crossed my mind during Priscilla's hospitalisation too.

This whole situation is just so heartbreaking.

[Clementine]

I always thought that he kind of tricked them to be able to stay there..."bla, bla, serious filming business going on, already a great network in WA to set it up". IIRC, he had to stay with another family there, but eventually moved out to his own place. What were the parents supposed to do then, living far away and such? So eventually, he made his way out of fundi-ism. He wasn't that young though, like 20 or 21. As for the courtship, I doubt he is taking that road, but that girl is a christian( and seems really nice+normal+educated+working), too. So I guess, they will just date and see how that goes.

ETA: Wasn't he one of Douggie's lovely interns?

Yes he was! Back in 2005 or 2006, I think. There's a photo of him and the other interns.

He seems to be out of the fundie lifestyle and live a more "normal" life now.

Just like the others - I hope that Priscilla gets help and a very good lawyer.

[Discobiscuit]

THIS!

I can't stand the thought that someone else screwed her up like that and now she is held soly responsible for her actions.

EDIT for typo. Not my day.

Abso-fuckin-lutely. If you are able to get in contact with her, fundiefun, please let her know that there are people out there who want to see her helped, not destroyed, by this.

[valsa]

That's what I believe because the family had her laptop and cell phone in possession from the time she was there until the time she ran away

I hate to always play the devil's advocate but there is another possible reason for them taking her laptop and cell phone. She's a sex offender and child molester, and one who used a computer to help her abuse two kids. If there's a possibility that her family knew she molested the children, they may have sent her away partially because of it (after all, that circle does like to bury sexual abuse), and it would make sense not to allow her access to the tools she used to victimize before. I've done basic research on residential treatment programs for sexual reactive youth (basically, teens and young adults who are sex offenders) and they certainly don't allow them free access to computers and phones (especially ones that might have picture-taking capability when they've taken pictures/video of their crimes/victims before)

If she’s been sexually abused, that’s very sad but it doesn’t excuse becoming a perpetrator herself. The fact is that most child molesters were sexually abused themselves (although it’s only a very small minority of victims of child sexual abuse that go on to abuse children as adults) Why should this girl get more sympathy than, say, a 60 year old man who’s molested a couple dozen little girls over the years, when they were both sexually abused themselves as children?

[Deleted03]

I hate to always play the devil's advocate but there is another possible reason for them taking her laptop and cell phone. She's a sex offender and child molester, and one who used a computer to help her abuse two kids. If there's a possibility that her family knew she molested the children, they may have sent her away partially because of it (after all, that circle does like to bury sexual abuse), and it would make sense not to allow her access to the tools she used to victimize before. I've done basic research on residential treatment programs for sexual reactive youth (basically, teens and young adults who are sex offenders) and they certainly don't allow them free access to computers and phones (especially ones that might have picture-taking capability when they've taken pictures/video of their crimes/victims before)

If she’s been sexually abused, that’s very sad but it doesn’t excuse becoming a perpetrator herself. The fact is that most child molesters were sexually abused themselves (although it’s only a very small minority of victims of child sexual abuse that go on to abuse children as adults) Why should this girl get more sympathy than, say, a 60 year old man who’s molested a couple dozen little girls over the years, when they were both sexually abused themselves as children?

well in prison you're also monitored. It's not like it was professional help at all. The other bothering thing is that a couple month before she'd have been treated as a minor.

In any case, if what we gathered is right you have a teen who was raped, not offered the right tools, and shipped off everytime the family felt like she was not doing it right. When they talk about alcohol abuse is it leaving home once a week to have a drinks or two, trying to look for non religious friends? Is drug abuse, marijuana? The problem is we can't take the family's word for her behavior, because they're all screwed up to start with. If the rape was declared at the police, wouldn't she have had the opportunity for therapy? (not just a "councellor" as the mom describes it in the article)

I think it's really unrealistic to think the family she was staying with was in any way professionally ready to deal with such a case. This family has just shown over and over they have no idea how to deal with trauma and pain. How do you ship off again your kid who has PTSD?

I don't know if we'll ever know what happenned, if the trial will be followed by the press, and that's frustrating, but hopefully they give psych evaluation for accused pedophiles, that can bring up all the issues to the fore and give her and the kids involved a fair sentence.

[debrand]

I hate to always play the devil's advocate but there is another possible reason for them taking her laptop and cell phone. She's a sex offender and child molester, and one who used a computer to help her abuse two kids. If there's a possibility that her family knew she molested the children, they may have sent her away partially because of it (after all, that circle does like to bury sexual abuse), and it would make sense not to allow her access to the tools she used to victimize before. I've done basic research on residential treatment programs for sexual reactive youth (basically, teens and young adults who are sex offenders) and they certainly don't allow them free access to computers and phones (especially ones that might have picture-taking capability when they've taken pictures/video of their crimes/victims before)

If she’s been sexually abused, that’s very sad but it doesn’t excuse becoming a perpetrator herself. The fact is that most child molesters were sexually abused themselves (although it’s only a very small minority of victims of child sexual abuse that go on to abuse children as adults) Why should this girl get more sympathy than, say, a 60 year old man who’s molested a couple dozen little girls over the years, when they were both sexually abused themselves as children?

Yes, but it isn't up to the parents to punish an adult child. That is something that should have happened through the courts. Even if my child is a murderer, it would be illegal for me to lock them up in my house.

If she was a sexual predator, her parents are guilty for not turning her in to the police. I would say the same thing if this was a sixty year old man whose sons tried to hide him away but refused to report him.

Whether she is guilty or innocent, her parents don't come out of this situation looking good.

[valsa]

In any case, if what we gathered is right you have a teen who was raped, not offered the right tools, and shipped off everytime the family felt like she was not doing it right.

None of this is what my post addressed. I didn't address her rape or whether shipping her off was the right thing to do. I just pointed out that taking away a means of taking pictures and recording videos, from a person who molested children and video taped it, is probably actually a smart move.

give her ... a fair sentence.

If both she and most other child molesters were sexually abused, wouldn't a fair sentence for her be the same sentence anyone else in her position would get?

[valsa]

Yes, but it isn't up to the parents to punish an adult child. That is something that should have happened through the courts. Even if my child is a murderer, it would be illegal for me to lock them up in my house.

If she was a sexual predator, her parents are guilty for not turning her in to the police. I would say the same thing if this was a sixty year old man whose sons tried to hide him away but refused to report him.

Whether she is guilty or innocent, her parents don't come out of this situation looking good.

Oh, I completely agree with you. If her parents knew she sexually abused children, they should have driven her down to the police station themselves. I was just pointing out that taking away her laptop and cell phone isn't an automatically evil and horrible thing to do in this case.

[Mudgie]

While I don't think it is likely that Priscilla is a true pedophile (meaning she has a true physical attraction to young children) I do believe she is obviously quite mentally disturbed. She sexually victimized young children. I do think she should absolutely be prosecuted legally for doing so. I also hope that she is given adequate and effective treatment for her obvious mental issues so that once she serves her time she can have a somewhat decent and healthy life. I hope the children who were her victims are given access to adequate and effective treatment.

The entire story of the gang rape does not add up. I am by no means saying this girl was not raped, but I wonder if the story of a gang rape while jogging was fabricated by the family as a cover up for a different kind of rape. It is very, very hard for me to believe that a young girl who is the daughter of a christian decorated military officer is gang raped on or near a military base and nothing is reported in the news about it. Not a single sentence. Especially as she was a minor when the rape occurred. One would think this story would have been all over the news. Obviously her name would not have been released but one would imagine there would have been some coverage about it. Not to mention the uproar that it happened to the child of a military family. It's not adding up. There are very large gaps and holes in this story.

Her computer and phone may have been taken away from her not for pedophilia but perhaps as a punishment for other behavior that is considered "acting out." Although if any of the adults in her life knew of the crime prior to the police finding it on her computer I hope they are also prosecuted fully.

I wonder why she ran away from the home where she was exiled. I wonder why she was exiled there in the first place.

Yes, she should absolutely be prosecuted but I think her parents have a lot to answer for and I hope they're held accountable.

[Drunkenbutterfly]

While I don't think it is likely that Priscilla is a true pedophile (meaning she has a true physical attraction to young children) I do believe she is obviously quite mentally disturbed. She sexually victimized young children. I do think she should absolutely be prosecuted legally for doing so. I also hope that she is given adequate and effective treatment for her obvious mental issues so that once she serves her time she can have a somewhat decent and healthy life. I hope the children who were her victims are given access to adequate and effective treatment.

The entire story of the gang rape does not add up. I am by no means saying this girl was not raped, but I wonder if the story of a gang rape while jogging was fabricated by the family as a cover up for a different kind of rape. It is very, very hard for me to believe that a young girl who is the daughter of a christian decorated military officer is gang raped on or near a military base and nothing is reported in the news about it. Not a single sentence. Especially as she was a minor when the rape occurred. One would think this story would have been all over the news. Obviously her name would not have been released but one would imagine there would have been some coverage about it. Not to mention the uproar that it happened to the child of a military family. It's not adding up. There are very large gaps and holes in this story.

Her computer and phone may have been taken away from her not for pedophilia but perhaps as a punishment for other behavior that is considered "acting out." Although if any of the adults in her life knew of the crime prior to the police finding it on her computer I hope they are also prosecuted fully.

I wonder why she ran away from the home where she was exiled. I wonder why she was exiled there in the first place.

Yes, she should absolutely be prosecuted but I think her parents have a lot to answer for and I hope they're held accountable.

I second all of that!

[Austin]

I get that rape and the subsequent lack of help and support could have caused her to develop mental health issues. But I would imagine that most molesters have mental health issues. While I empathize with her over the rape, I'm not sure how she is much different than Brantley Disharoon, who we skewered last year (deservedly so, IMO) and outed to his fiance (assuming she didn't already know). It's probably safe to assume that something happened to Brantley along the way in his childhood as most perpetrators suffered some sort of abuse in childhood, and for that, they deserve sympathy. But it doesn't ameliorate their later criminal acts, and the same is true of this young woman.

Unless I'm missing something. . .

[Mudgie]

I get that rape and the subsequent lack of help and support could have caused her to develop mental health issues. But I would imagine that most molesters have mental health issues. While I empathize with her over the rape, I'm not sure how she is much different than Brantley Disharoon, who we skewered last year (deservedly so, IMO) and outed to his fiance (assuming she didn't already know). It's probably safe to assume that something happened to Brantley along the way in his childhood as most perpetrators suffered some sort of abuse in childhood, and for that, they deserve sympathy. But it doesn't ameliorate their later criminal acts, and the same is true of this young woman.

Unless I'm missing something. . .

I agree with you.

ETA: About Priscilla, I'm not familiar with the Brantley Disharoon case so I have no opinion or comment on that.

[Deleted03]

None of this is what my post addressed. I didn't address her rape or whether shipping her off was the right thing to do. I just pointed out that taking away a means of taking pictures and recording videos, from a person who molested children and video taped it, is probably actually a smart move.

/quote]

I think it's just coincidence. I'd bet if she was sent because of her drinking they would have taken her computer and her phone too. Plus if her family found it why send her with those items at all? Did the family have children? We don't know that either. I'm pointing out that you're giving way too much credit to a family whose only answer to trouble is take toys away and family away.

I'm not a judge I won't say what a fair sentence is in that case. But to judge acts of an 18 year old and a couple months who was sheltered, abused, raped and shipped off by her family as the acts of a mentally "stable" adult is problematic IMO. I don't know the facts I won't say what the sentence should be.

What if it turns out she wanted professional help and her parents said no to secular help? then what? I think I and others are pointing out that it seems like a touchy case. It's not like the abuse was done 20 years ago and we're talking of a serial rapist who never ever got help or tried to collaborate with a psy. But hopefully the judge and P's lawyer knows that. COnsidering she's a white christian girl she's in a better position than others would be in the US. Hopefully her family is paying for a lawyer and will finally do something right.

[valsa]

I get that rape and the subsequent lack of help and support could have caused her to develop mental health issues. But I would imagine that most molesters have mental health issues. While I empathize with her over the rape, I'm not sure how she is much different than Brantley Disharoon, who we skewered last year (deservedly so, IMO) and outed to his fiance (assuming she didn't already know). It's probably safe to assume that something happened to Brantley along the way in his childhood as most perpetrators suffered some sort of abuse in childhood, and for that, they deserve sympathy. But it doesn't ameliorate their later criminal acts, and the same is true of this young woman.

Unless I'm missing something. . .

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees things this way.

Sometimes I think a lot of the people on Free Jinger are so (rightfully) angry about injustice towards women and about women and girls being held to a different standard than men and boys, that they sometimes forget to hold women to the same standard as men themselves. I cannot see anything that makes this young woman different than the hundreds of thousands of male child molesters who were raised in screwed up environments and probably sexually abused themselves. She should be held to the same standard as a man in the same circumstances.