Kim at LiaS has rodents.

[ilovetchotchkes]

We had pet rats for a few years and loved them so much. They are really a neat and loving pet. Sadly I couldn't cope with them only living for 2-3 years and decided to call it quits after our second set of ladies. That was around the time we got our new pocket pets, the pugs. ;)

[FundiesInMyFamily]

My sister has several domestic rats and is IN LOVE with them, but is also becoming heartbroken at the life span. She got 5 at the same time and now only 2 are left after 'Mr. Scabbers' had a stroke. Personally I love anything cuddly - hamsters, ect - but those tails get me. Ew.

[theologygeek]

We struggle with mice in our house constantly. I spoke to an exterminator and they said in this area we live the best they could do is keep it so we only have some mice. We're already doing that so we didn't take them up on the offer. We did have problems with rats outside but out neighbor had an exterminator come out and they never came inside. I do think cat smell helps since my next door neighbor (in a townhouse so our houses are connected) with a cat has never seen a mouse. Although I hate the mice they mostly come out at night so in the morning I clean up the droppings and wipe all the counters even the ones that didn't get droppings. We've found block poison to be the most effective method of killing them. We have a few traps set up on our counters (little hands can't reach them and that's where they seem to be most active) but have only caught a couple.

[theologygeek]

I did the same thing, and quit for the same reason, except that I had mostly boys (long story, but no, I did not keep fertile male and female rats at the same time!) I moved on to cats. I love having a pet who can be trusted with the run of the home unsupervised, and who tells me directly what her needs are, but sometimes I do miss having pets who can sleep down my shirt while I'm on the computer.

[Feberin]

Did you secure the area around your dryer vent? Do you leave your garage door opened? Don't use those ultrasonic plug in thingies. My friend is convinced that they attract mice instead of repel them.

[Witsec7]

Mothballs. Mothballs in crawls spaces, any place there isn't food or kids.

[theologygeek]

I'll check the dryer vent but we've looked for possible ways in and so far have only found the radiators since there is a gap there between the wall and the floor behind them that we're not sure if it can be covered without being a fire hazard. Our garage door is closed but it's also not connected to the house. We don't do the ulrasonic things just poision, traps and peperment oil. We've been in our house for nearly four years and will go periods without any mice for months and months. But they always come back again. We live right next to the city line in a townhouse. Thanks for the tips!

[ladypuglover]

Oh my God. LOL I would have a heart attack if there was a rat down my shirt.

[Kitchen Princess]

Look behind your dishwasher, too, wherever water pipes come up through the floor, unless you're on a concrete slab, then the holes should be sealed.

I have a cat that can dig up moles from under the ground and bring them to me, still living, in the middle of the night. Did you know moles can scream?

We've had 10 or more live birds brought into the house in the last few years. I'm getting pretty good at reaching up to the curtain (they always fly to the curtains for some reason) with a towel and just plucking them off. Sometimes they don't survive and I'm always sad.

Seven baby squirrels jumped over the chain saw blade when we were cutting up the trunk of the hollow tree that fell on our house during an ice storm. We didn't know they were in there, but the closer the blade got, the braver they got.

We came in and found a little chipmunk or something behind the tv armoire, still alive. It took us a long time to get it out, but it conveniently ran inside my shoe at some point and cowered there in the toe, and we locked all the cats in and took him outside.

We have never had a mouse.

[Dinorah]

Wow, I can't imagine thinking you have a rat, let alone a colony of them in a house with kids and not really worry about it. And these are supposed to be great mothers? So much better than the evil feminist ones who, you know, actually provide decent living quarters for their kids, with enough space and no health hazards?

[Kelya]

Where was everybody when we talked before about San Antonio and the burbs being rat infested. It's a wicked problem there. I know indigent families would report waking up with rats in the bed with them in the morning, eating their hair. A friend of mine from Bastrop talked about this all the time. too.

Did she say they were the rats that invaded (they love to get into animal feed, too), or was it just generic rodents? She's the one who poured boiling water in the walls to kill them, isn't she?

Old news, just seasonal.

[turquoise]

This isn't the first time she had problems with rodents. IIRC the kids filled the walls with water to try to drown rats or mice because they heard about doing that from a book.

How would you do that without ruining the wires and insulation? And wouldn't that leave you with dead mice inside the walls where you can't get them out? Decomposing mouse is about the worst odor I've ever smelled.

We used to have pet mice and gerbils when I was a kid. As an adult, the first time I found a wild mouse inside I thought it was too cute to kill, so I caught it and let it go outside. But that attitude didn't last long. When they started chewing into food boxes and we found mouse poop all over the place, we got the green pellet boxes. I don't care how cute the mice are, my family's health is more important.

[starfish]

I'm convinced Kim has some type of deep depression that allows her to think her existence (1 bathroom for fifteen people, sleeping on shelving, rodent infestation, no a/c in a steaming hot Tx summer, living with weird Perry, unassisted homebirth on the chicken poop deck) is normal.

It's just not.

[lilwriter85]

I have found that the best mousers are mutt kitties (no pedigree) taken a bit late from their mama. Someone else said that mother needs to train them and that makes sense. My cats were all pretty sturdy, maybe half-grown, when I took them; it was always from someone I knew that had a cat that had a litter and had planned to keep them but could not handle so many cats.

I have heard that big ears and short fur are the secret to good mousing, but I had one that was half Maine Coon and looked all Maine Coon (super long hair, average ears, huge cat, we named him Gandalf the Gray!) and it hunted anything. He tried to go after our neighbor's lab puppy. He would kill birds and pretty large rodents to leave on our doorstep, and he also would get in territorial scuffles with raccoons and skunks.

I agree those types are the best mousers. I grew up in a rural area and many people had outside cats for rodent control and often my family and other families preferred to take kittens that were 10-14 weeks old because they had better hunting skills. My uncle and aunt have a small horse ranch in the town next to where my parents live and they try to keep at least 10 cats at a time on the ranch. They give away a few kittens each spring to neighbors and the neighbors actually prefer to get the kittens at 4-5 months.

[Conuly]

I agree those types are the best mousers. I grew up in a rural area and many people had outside cats for rodent control and often my family and other families preferred to take kittens that were 10-14 weeks old because they had better hunting skills. My uncle and aunt have a small horse ranch in the town next to where my parents live and they try to keep at least 10 cats at a time on the ranch. They give away a few kittens each spring to neighbors and the neighbors actually prefer to get the kittens at 4-5 months.

Just an interjection here, 4 - 5 months isn't actually late. 2 months, which is when a lot of people like to give away kittens, is early. Left to their own devices, kittens don't leave their mamas until at LEAST that age - and it's not unusual for the girls (queens) to stay with their moms much later (many feral cats live in colonies that center around a mother and a few of her daughters and their offspring) or for the boys (toms) to keep returning until a year old or even later.

If you go on Google people will tell you to enforce weaning so they're totally weaned by 2 months, but I've never seen a cat even start the weaning process that early, not on their own. Some kittens aren't even on solids until 8 weeks on the nose! The mama we've got now didn't start weaning until 10 weeks, and she didn't finish the process for another month after that. (And honestly, I suspect that that's in part because she went into heat. If this were a normal winter that would not have happened. I locked her in the house a week until I could get her to the mobile spay/neuter van. No more kittens for us!)

I don't even give away kittens until at least 12 weeks when I have them, no matter HOW much harder that may make it to give them away. (This means, effectively, that I keep kittens until four or five months or more! But it's worth it to get them placed when they're well-socialized and already fixed.)

Edit: As you can tell, this is a well-trod rant of mine. It just makes me so mad! (And some people push to give them away at 6 weeks, which is absolutely inexcusable. There are sometimes good reasons to separate a kitten at 8 weeks, say, if this is a feral rescue situation (although if the kitten isn't sick and mom is amenable, it may be better to try to socialize the kitten even as it remains with its mother, and littermates should be kept together as long as possible in those situations), but the average person is never going to come across a reason to separate any earlier than that.)

[celestial]

There are sometimes good reasons to separate a kitten at 8 weeks, say, if this is a feral rescue situation (although if the kitten isn't sick and mom is amenable, it may be better to try to socialize the kitten even as it remains with its mother, and littermates should be kept together as long as possible in those situations), but the average person is never going to come across a reason to separate any earlier than that.)

I adopted a feral kitten last July at 8 weeks old. We had to take them right then or they'd be sent to the pound. She was very timid at first and I had to approach with caution, but 6 months later she is the sweetest, most loving cat. However, my co-worker adopted the other 2 kittens in the litter, and they clung to each other and continued to act like wild animals, scratching anyone who came near and tearing things to bits. Today they are still very standoffish and unfriendly, preferring each other's company and distrusting humans. I figured this was because they shouldn't have been adopted together, but now you're making me rethink this. Maybe I just got the sweeter-natured cat or did a better job of socializing her.

Out of curiosity, why do you say it's better to keep littermates together as long as possible?

[Austin]

I adopted a feral kitten last July at 8 weeks old. We had to take them right then or they'd be sent to the pound. She was very timid at first and I had to approach with caution, but 6 months later she is the sweetest, most loving cat. However, my co-worker adopted the other 2 kittens in the litter, and they clung to each other and continued to act like wild animals, scratching anyone who came near and tearing things to bits. Today they are still very standoffish and unfriendly, preferring each other's company and distrusting humans. I figured this was because they shouldn't have been adopted together, but now you're making me rethink this. Maybe I just got the sweeter-natured cat or did a better job of socializing her.

Out of curiosity, why do you say it's better to keep littermates together as long as possible?

I adoped a feral kitten in the fall of 2008. I had been feeding her anyway (outside), and we just had the one cat so I kind of figured we could take on one more. I brought her into the garage until I could get her into the vet. She was old enough (big enough) to be spayed, so took care of that and then introduced her to Charlotte, who didn't really give a damn. Three-plus years later, she still hides under the bed most of the time that anyone is home and is just all around anti-social. In the very early morning hours, she'll jump up on the bed and curl up next to me but at the first sign of activity in the house, she scrams. So, yeah, standoffish and unfriendly for the most part. She tolerates me a bit, but acts terrifed of any of the guys.

[Conuly]

Out of curiosity, why do you say it's better to keep littermates together as long as possible?

Because cats are social animals. I know people think they're not, but they *are*. They're just not dogs.

So, as much as possible, it's better for them to be around a few other cats, especially when growing. It helps them learn how to act like cats, and helps them not be too human-oriented. Overly affectionate behavior is one thing that happens when kittens are taken away from their families at a young age. It's definitely better than standoffish and skittish, but it's still not a sign of a happy, well-adjusted kitty. (In my opinion, it's also darn annoying. I prefer the shy-but-they-warm-up ones any day of the week.)

It's possible that those kittens would have had a shier personality already - in this litter of 5 kittens I have one extremely friendly kitten, two moderately friendly kitten, one friendly but skittish kitten, and one very shy, cautious kitten who, after four months of work (counting from birth) has finally learned that she likes... me. And ONLY me. (I wasn't planning to keep any of the kittens, but I think I'll have to. Aside from the fact that she's my favorite, I can't fathom being able to give away a cat like this.) But she won't ask for attention, I have to seek her out, and she always looks surprised when she starts purring or her butt goes up in that way cats do! They've been indoors since day one, and their mother was recently abandoned, not a feral cat or a longtime friendly stray. That's just the way they shook out!

Or it's possible that you and your co-worker did different things to socialize these feral kittens, and your method simply was better.

I genuinely believe that most cats, if at all possible, are happiest in homes with one, two, or three other cats. This is after the adjustment period of adding a new animal to the household, of course, but littermates avoid that problem. And I really do believe it's best if they have enough time to learn cat social skills before they're adopted out.

[Austin]

So, as much as possible, it's better for them to be around a few other cats, especially when growing. It helps them learn how to act like cats, and helps them not be too human-oriented. Overly affectionate behavior is one thing that happens when kittens are taken away from their families at a young age. It's definitely better than standoffish and skittish, but it's still not a sign of a happy, well-adjusted kitty. (In my opinion, it's also darn annoying. I prefer the shy-but-they-warm-up ones any day of the week.)

I hear you on that. The minute I walk in the door, Charlotte is on me like white on rice. If I'm sitting down working on the laptop, for instance, she's trying to crawl on my lap or otherwise drape herself on me or around me. I sleep on my side with my legs drawn up and she likes to sleep right by my stomach in the curve of my body, and as I change sides through the night, she changes right along with me. Sometimes it feels like if she could get inside my skin, she would. She's even worse, if that's possible, when we go on vacation and are gone for a few days (I have someone come in every day and take care of them).

She's my shelter kitty, so I have no clue what her kittenhood was like, but we've had her for nearly five years and I don't know what to do to make her a happy, well-adjusted kitty.

[celestial]

Thanks for the feedback, Conuly. I can see why allowing a cat to grow up, and preferably remain, around other cats would be ideal. I wonder if this applies to some extent cross-species as well? My parents have a dog, a gentle 11 year old Lab mix who visits often, and he and the kitten really took to each other. They spend lots of time together playing, grooming, and sleeping. I was really hesitant about this at first, since the dog is so much bigger, but the dog has never once lost patience or appeared uncomfortable so I no longer worry about kitty getting hurt. In any case, we are always close by when they're together.

My cat is thankfully not clingy and smothering, she definitely likes her personal space too, so I hope she is as well-adjusted as she can be under these circumstances. Right now I'm only allowed one cat in my apartment, but I'll think about getting another if I move.

[Wolfie]

How would you do that without ruining the wires and insulation? And wouldn't that leave you with dead mice inside the walls where you can't get them out? Decomposing mouse is about the worst odor I've ever smelled.

We used to have pet mice and gerbils when I was a kid. As an adult, the first time I found a wild mouse inside I thought it was too cute to kill, so I caught it and let it go outside. But that attitude didn't last long. When they started chewing into food boxes and we found mouse poop all over the place, we got the green pellet boxes. I don't care how cute the mice are, my family's health is more important.

I really don't know if their home would pass county inspections- we already know that it's built, at least part, on their neighbor's property.

[emmiedahl]

No, I did not know that! Isn't that illegal? You can't just build a house on someone else's property...

[Witsec7]

If she is in Tejas the home would have no code standard. Texas only applies code to commercial buildings.

http://www.nrmca.org/codes/focusstates.asp

[Vex]

This upsets me. I'm guessing rather than an actual tree rat, she has a ship rat - i don't know of any tree rat species native to North America, but people often call ship rats 'tree rats' because they often live in fruit trees. I had a pet 'tree rat' for almost three years - a baby I found orphaned and injured at 3 weeks who I carefully raised on puppy milk and lots of love. He was just the sweetest and most charismatic little rattie. He would sit for hours when I scratched his cheek. He adored his tube hammock and kept it spotless.

I've owned rats and mice for nearly 14 years. I can categorically state that if you have to have a rodent invasion, ship rats (also known as black rats, roof rats and plague rats... they're climbers) are definitely the least destructive. The two main kinds of rats that invade homes are Rattus rattus (ship rats) and Rattus norvegicus (the domestic rat, also known as a brown rat and sewer rat). Rattus rattus are smaller and more slender. They are extremely shy and not nearly as prone to excessive gnawing. Their poop is tiny, only the size of mouse droppings, and their urine is thick and sticky, but nowhere near as smelly as R. norvegicus or mouse urine. I only had to clean my pet Shippie out once every few weeks, as opposed to the twice-weekly cleanings my domestic rats get. Ship rats prefer fresh foods and veggies and are more likely to leave sweet and salty things (meat, cheese, chocolate) alone. Also, wild-caught shippies can be domesticated quite easily, whereas wild born Rattus norvegicus tend to become nasty and wild even when raised from tiny babies with their eyes closed. In a house full of kids, it's much safer to have a Ship rat invasion. Rattus norvegicus have incredibly large and strong cheek muscles that result in a nasty bite. Ship rats don't have strong cheeks, and therefore have a much weaker bite. Basically, they can't bite you through a layer of clothing unless they really chomp. Two layers of clothing would definitely stop any blood being drawn, but a norvegicus could bite right through it.

ETA: There's a simple way she can identify what kind of rodent she has. Ship rats in cold climates tend to be very dark, even black (my Shippie was a light brown because of the warm location I live in). They also have oval shaped ears and slender tails that are at least the length of their bodies. If the tail is shorter than the body and the rat is brown (if she's in a cold climate), it's a norvegicus.

I'm sorry for the lecture, I just love ratties <33

[Linnea]

No, I did not know that! Isn't that illegal? You can't just build a house on someone else's property...

Yes, it's illegal, but very easy to do if you don't check where the property lines are before you start building. IIRC, they didn't find realize it until the house was already built. Not sure if they've come to an agreement with the neighboring property-owner or what.