Razing Ruth's Daddy tries to take over her blog

[razingruth]

Sorry about the new color scheme. I was trying something new. It bothers me, too, so I'll be changing it. Thanks.

Why am I letting my dad post?

It's complicated. Part of it is to see if he'll stick to a "deal" he proposed. If I gave him the chance to defend himself on the blog, then he would consider me to be "accomodating" and be "accomodating" in return. I really want to check-in with my mother and he did allow a phone call this morning.

What's odd, to me, about his comments is that he's not defending his actions as he claimed he wanted to- he's just spouting the party line ad nauseum.

Where am I living?

I live in a moderate sized college town in California. I would prefer not to divulge much more than that because I have had threats, over the last three years, from family and people within the organization. I also would prefer to keep my identity protected until my younger siblings are out of the family or are out of the ATI system. I know it's hard for people outside this belief system to believe, but entire families (especially siblings) can be treated differently for that one child that flees the flock. It's especially bad if that person speaks out publicly like I have.

One thing I am only now coming to terms with, and I hate defending my mom and dad, is that I think they're stuck in this system. My dad's invested almost every financial resource he has in ATI and it's missions. He earns a very modest income from doing the mailings for another popular financial "ministry" among many QF families. If I cause too much trouble publicly, then my mom and sisters suffer financially. My dad can't leave. He has no real retirement, saving his investments in this system. He's old enough to start thinking of retiring but having so many kids and tithing has left mom and dad with very little. Other than working within this, as some have called it, cult- he doesn't have anything to fall back on. Mom is stuck by virtue of marriage and having a family. There's a small part of my heart that hopes this is the case- that they would leave if they could. I *know* that they are pressured to shut me up and pressured to ensure that I keep their names out of this.

[SunnyAndrsn]

Sorry about the new color scheme. I was trying something new. It bothers me, too, so I'll be changing it. Thanks.

Why am I letting my dad post?

It's complicated. Part of it is to see if he'll stick to a "deal" he proposed. If I gave him the chance to defend himself on the blog, then he would consider me to be "accomodating" and be "accomodating" in return. I really want to check-in with my mother and he did allow a phone call this morning.

What's odd, to me, about his comments is that he's not defending his actions as he claimed he wanted to- he's just spouting the party line ad nauseum.

Where am I living?

I live in a moderate sized college town in California. I would prefer not to divulge much more than that because I have had threats, over the last three years, from family and people within the organization. I also would prefer to keep my identity protected until my younger siblings are out of the family or are out of the ATI system. I know it's hard for people outside this belief system to believe, but entire families (especially siblings) can be treated differently for that one child that flees the flock. It's especially bad if that person speaks out publicly like I have.

One thing I am only now coming to terms with, and I hate defending my mom and dad, is that I think they're stuck in this system. My dad's invested almost every financial resource he has in ATI and it's missions. He earns a very modest income from doing the mailings for another popular financial "ministry" among many QF families. If I cause too much trouble publicly, then my mom and sisters suffer financially. My dad can't leave. He has no real retirement, saving his investments in this system. He's old enough to start thinking of retiring but having so many kids and tithing has left mom and dad with very little. Other than working within this, as some have called it, cult- he doesn't have anything to fall back on. Mom is stuck by virtue of marriage and having a family. There's a small part of my heart that hopes this is the case- that they would leave if they could. I *know* that they are pressured to shut me up and pressured to ensure that I keep their names out of this.

All the more reason to call them out, IMO. However, I understand your fears for yourself. If ATI members would treat your siblings poorly because of you, I would hope that would serve to help them question the realities of this "christian" organization.

[razingruth]

All the more reason to call them out, IMO. However, I understand your fears for yourself. If ATI members would treat your siblings poorly because of you, I would hope that would serve to help them question the realities of this "christian" organization.

In the normal world, you would be right. People would look at the threats and the poor treatment and see it for what it is. I don't know if I can explain it. The best explanations I've seen for the way people treat each other in ATI (and possibly fundamentalism, in general) is more cultlike. The desperately want the higher-ups to be happy with them. Pleasing certain people and appearing to be a certain way is more important than the reality of their life. I would hope that each of my siblings sees the insanity and hypocrisy someday.

[demgirl]

Ruth, you keep on doing what you need to do. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to know that you have loved ones stuck in this system and feel the need to protect them, while still protecting yourself. That's one fine line to walk. I know if my parents cut my off from a sibling, or my dad cut me off from my mom, I'd do almost anything to be allowed to talk to them. I admire you so much for the stand you've taken in your life and I hope one day you can not only live the life you want -- and deserve -- but also have close relationships with those you love.

[MamaJunebug]

Razing Ruth wrote,

...The best explanations I've seen for the way people treat each other in ATI (and possibly fundamentalism, in general) is more cultlike. The desperately want the higher-ups to be happy with them. Pleasing certain people and appearing to be a certain way is more important than the reality of their life. I would hope that each of my siblings sees the insanity and hypocrisy someday.

From a very little exposure to fundamentalism, I've come to the conclusion, above. It's more about pleasing men than pleasing God. Ruth, please come here as often as you need to, to get support and attagirls. Do things the way you know are right for you.

Please stay strong, and let us know how we can be of help in strengthening your resolve and in your everyday life, as well. You are not alone by any means. God is not who your father has said God is; She is very much on your side, holding you up and sending us to help you when you need us.

Love you!

[longskirtlotsakids]

I find it very telling that he feels the need to post on YOUR blog, Ruth. It leads me to believe he is not as confident in ATI as he would like to believe. Why on earth would he need to explain himself to non believers?

[valsa]

One thing I am only now coming to terms with, and I hate defending my mom and dad, is that I think they're stuck in this system. My dad's invested almost every financial resource he has in ATI and it's missions. He earns a very modest income from doing the mailings for another popular financial "ministry" among many QF families. If I cause too much trouble publicly, then my mom and sisters suffer financially. My dad can't leave. He has no real retirement, saving his investments in this system. He's old enough to start thinking of retiring but having so many kids and tithing has left mom and dad with very little. Other than working within this, as some have called it, cult- he doesn't have anything to fall back on. Mom is stuck by virtue of marriage and having a family. There's a small part of my heart that hopes this is the case- that they would leave if they could. I *know* that they are pressured to shut me up and pressured to ensure that I keep their names out of this.

Ruth, you are doing so well holding your parents accountable- please do not buy into this. Not only did your mother and father make their bed with ATI, they continue to make it every day. They have options. In fact, they have a hell of a lot more options than you did when they drove you away. Your parents can leave. Your parents can change. The problem is that they value themselves and their comfort and (in your father's case) their ability to lord over everyone else in the family without being questioned, more than they value their children. Please do not excuse their abuse. I know every child wants to think "If my parents had a choice, they wouldn't do these bad/hurtful things to me." Truth is, some people do care about their children, but just not enough to inconvenience themselves to do right by them.

[MerryHappy]

Darth Daddy is sounding more desperate than usual, Ruth.

Please be careful.

((Hugs.))

[Deleted07]

I've just been reading the blog, its just heartbreaking to think of you going through that.

I agree I don't see why he should be allowed to spiel his self righteous propaganda on your blog, he should just open his own blog if he wants to respond. But I understand your train or thought and fears.

I hope 2012 is kind to you, and wish you all the best.

[Sweetpea1]

Ruth, I'm echoing what Mama Junebug said. Come here often and take care of yourself.

[Guest Anonymous]

Ruth has posted on her blog again to say that she has now blocked her dad's email, but she did get some contact with her mum. Her post is a very sad letter to her mum, really.

In a way, I am glad she says she is going to be taking another break while she concentrates on school. I hope those girlfriends take her out for the margaritas we would all love to shout her.

Ruth, if you are reading, kudos to you for your strength over all this rubbish with your dad. Take care. Hugs.xx

[Austin]

Ugghhhh. . . she's got a nasty troll. I hate the disgusting trolls.

[library_youth]

Yep, someone's giving her shit about having a donate button on the blog. What an ass. Just ignore it, Ruth.

[VenusJS]

Just weighing in to say "You go Ruth!" Keep fighting the good fight and stay safe. Sending good vibes/prayers/whatever your way.

[Brainsample]

From this site: http://helpingpsychology.com/sociopath-vs-psychopath-whats-the-difference Emphasis mine.

Yeah, armchair diagnosis from a non-professional--I'm thinking sociopath.

Entitlement is often a part of it, too, a function of having no respect for the rights of others.

[razingruth]

Thanks, friends!

I noticed the troll. How could I not? Right?

About a year ago, on the old FJ boards, someone advised me to either decide to let trolls rule my life or decide not to care. I think I've decided to do the latter. I never started that blog as an income. In fact, even though there's Amazon ads on the top, I have never collected a dime on that because there was some law saying I couldn't collect because of the state I live in (or something). Then, they sent me a note saying I could get the ad money if I re-did some account stuff and I couldn't figure out what to do. I should just take the amazon ads down. Then, after the last set of trolls regarding paypal, I took the paypal link down for a year.

As Steven pointed out, on my blog, it's strange that certain trolls only show up when they believe I'm getting financial support of any kind. The comment about me needing to spend a day in a woman's crisis shelter is hurtful. I never claim to have a worse life than anyone else. I only post about my own life. And, I never openly solicit funds. That someone would suggest I do only tells me that they don't read the blog. I am open to constructive criticism and I try to be polite to my critics (mainly because we can all learn something from our critics). Still, I have a feeling that the troll isn't being constructive so much as trying to get me to take the link down for their own purposes. I don't get it.

[Constance Vigilance]

Block the troll. Your blog, your space, your rules. I think you have had more than enough of listening to someone else's crap for one lifetime.

The comment about me needing to spend a day in a woman's crisis shelter is hurtful.

It's a silencing tactic. Ignore it. It is an attempt to make you sit down and shut up, and you just don't have to.

[Sprocket]

Thanks, friends!

I noticed the troll. How could I not? Right?

About a year ago, on the old FJ boards, someone advised me to either decide to let trolls rule my life or decide not to care. I think I've decided to do the latter. I never started that blog as an income. In fact, even though there's Amazon ads on the top, I have never collected a dime on that because there was some law saying I couldn't collect because of the state I live in (or something). Then, they sent me a note saying I could get the ad money if I re-did some account stuff and I couldn't figure out what to do. I should just take the amazon ads down. Then, after the last set of trolls regarding paypal, I took the paypal link down for a year.

As Steven pointed out, on my blog, it's strange that certain trolls only show up when they believe I'm getting financial support of any kind. The comment about me needing to spend a day in a woman's crisis shelter is hurtful. I never claim to have a worse life than anyone else. I only post about my own life. And, I never openly solicit funds. That someone would suggest I do only tells me that they don't read the blog. I am open to constructive criticism and I try to be polite to my critics (mainly because we can all learn something from our critics). Still, I have a feeling that the troll isn't being constructive so much as trying to get me to take the link down for their own purposes. I don't get it.

As long as you're here, may I ask you a question? Do you think your former (forced) fiance/his family still reads your blog? I believe I remember you posting an email he sent you way back when.... The reason that I ask is the comment about "all of the opportunities you've blown" or something to taht effect. That comment made me think of him.

[ladypuglover]

Just wanted to send you some hugs and to tell you how proud I am of you.

[dcmhejbl62]

Block the troll. Your blog, your space, your rules. I think you have had more than enough of listening to someone else's crap for one lifetime.

It's a silencing tactic. Ignore it. It is an attempt to make you sit down and shut up, and you just don't have to.

I agree.

Ruth, interesting thing about abusive / controlling people -- they are predictable. Once you learn the cycle, you will be able to predict when they will strike and what they will say.

The troll knows your buttons, the things you are proud of and the standards you hold yourself to; he wants to break those down, and make you question your worth. If he strikes again, since you posted the note to your mom, he may hit on relationships next, and make you question yourself as a daughter, sister, and future wife. I'm sure your dad will hit those topics also.

All part of the manipulation. Once you can predict it, it's easier to keep your distance from it.

[Crackedeggs]

((((((((((((((Ruth))))))))))))))))) Fight the good fight, kiddo.

[SunnyAndrsn]

In the normal world, you would be right. People would look at the threats and the poor treatment and see it for what it is. I don't know if I can explain it. The best explanations I've seen for the way people treat each other in ATI (and possibly fundamentalism, in general) is more cultlike. The desperately want the higher-ups to be happy with them. Pleasing certain people and appearing to be a certain way is more important than the reality of their life. I would hope that each of my siblings sees the insanity and hypocrisy someday.

I didn't mean my comments as a criticism of how you have decided to handle your situation. While I sympathize I couldn't know what it was really like growing up like that.

I do wish there was more I could do to help you. Again if you're ever in the upper midwest :-) The offer stands for a place to stay.

[Lainey]

Just posting to say I'm rooting for you too, Ruth! And if you ever feel like coming to Canada, I'd also offer a place to stay. But, er, you must like cats. Or at least not hate them.

I live not far from Banff--I mention that because everybody likes Banff (except me). :mrgreen:

[Terrasola]

I am probably coming from out of left field, but Ruth's description strongly reminds me of co-dependence or "co-narcissism". This parallels dysfunctional organizational cultures that reward narcissistic behaviour with promotions, etc.. Therefore, the co-dependents (or "co-narcissists" depending upon whose jargon you use) attempt to please the narcissists to curry favour, or simply to survive the dysfunction. It is certainly not restricted to cult situations. I believe that this is both good news and bad news. It is good because this means that there are existing resources and information that can be useful to understand the milieu and to help one leave, survive and thrive afterward (e.g. corporate narcissism, etc.). It is bad because it means that such suffering is more widespread than people at first may think.

[Terrasola]

I find it very telling that he feels the need to post on YOUR blog, Ruth. It leads me to believe he is not as confident in ATI as he would like to believe. Why on earth would he need to explain himself to non believers?

I, too, feel that this behaviour is telling. However, I feel that Ruth's father has a neon sign over his head that says "Narcissist". The DSM-IV (Diagnostic & Statistics Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition) explains Narcissistic Personality Disorder as a pervasive (persisting even when it is no longer helping a person cope in life) pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and lack of empathy. One of the disgnostic criteria is a grandiose sense of self-importance. Another is a requirement for excessive admiration / attention. A third criterion is an unreasonable sense of entitlement. Yet another is the display of arrogant and/or haughty behaviours and attitudes. IMHO these apply to Ruth's father. I really empathize with Ruth as, if true, this would suck on the Fujita Scale.

There are theories that narcissists are drawn to extremism of all kinds, including religion AND that personality disorders such as NPD are more prevalent in large families.

Full disclosure: I am not a mental health professional, nor do I play one on TV. I was once a little girl, like Ruth, who had a father with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (yes - diagnosed). Ruth's father's posts have been triggers for me.