What Do Fundies Think of Dinosaurs and Fossils ?

[ladypuglover]

So, building on snarkbillie's comment...

Ladypuglover, you are either an Old Earth Creationist, or a person who believes God started it all. No name-calling. The way to tell the difference is if you agree evolution occurs. If you think God put all species here more or less exactly as they are, you are an Old Earth Creationist. If you agree that evolution has occurred since God created everything, you are a person who believes God started it all.

As a biology professor, I can say that I don't care which way anyone leans, as long as they accept that it is their faith that leads them to the belief. When someone starts spouting that science somehow supports a young Earth, or that nothing has changed, then I get rollie-eyed and annoyed. One of the best things that a student ever told me (she was a YEC) was that she understood that science did not agree with her views, but that it was her faith that mattered. Fortunately for me, she was a chemist, so I could just accept her answer for what it was, and appreciate her honesty. :)

hmmm. I believe that God started it all when you put it that way. I do believe that all life has evolved as has our own planet and solar system. We can even see mankind evolving here in N. America from when white Europians came over in the late 1500's to present day. And even in our own lifespans we have seen insects/animals evolve. So I guess I am the latter. I hope I didn't make you all rolly-eyed. ;)

And thank you snarkbillie. :D

[snarkbillie]

Aside from the fact that this is a dick move, I don't get why these people don't understand the concept of omnipotence. Surely God knows what you believe without having to pull silly tests, right?

They would come back to say that the tests are for YOUR benefit and not God's. Try making any sense of that! LOL

[Conuly]

They would come back to say that the tests are for YOUR benefit and not God's. Try making any sense of that! LOL

It doesn't make any sense!

Failing the test = going to Hell.

Never being tested = still a chance of Heaven!

Of course, it's like the people who rationalize that good people who were just never told about Jesus still get into Heaven. Were that true, wouldn't it make sense to kill all the missionaries in advance?

[trebello]

Ladypuglover, if you had any idea of how long I contemplated "rolly-eyed" vs. "rollie-eyed", you would now be laughing very much out loud. Rolly made made me think "Raaaa-llly", like the city in North Carolina, and of Rolo's, the candy. I think I have now lived in the South too long. :D

[snarkbillie]

FWIW, I think non-creationists ask the wrong question here. While dinosaurs and carbon dating are all well and good and you can get hilariously divergent answers, the real question that I like to ask them is about stars. How can they explain the stars being there so much longer than 6k years when they were just created a few days before Adam? The answers are once again divergent but in a completely new clusterfucked way. It's really entertaining.

[ladypuglover]

Ladypuglover, if you had any idea of how long I contemplated "rolly-eyed" vs. "rollie-eyed", you would now be laughing very much out loud. Rolly made made me think "Raaaa-llly", like the city in North Carolina, and of Rolo's, the candy. I think I have now lived in the South too long. :D

;) Well just don't worry about it as I couldn't spell my way out of a wet paper bag. I don't know if rolly-eyed or rollie-eyed is right or even if there is a right way to spell a made up word.

[Deleted07]

FWIW, I think non-creationists ask the wrong question here. While dinosaurs and carbon dating are all well and good and you can get hilariously divergent answers, the real question that I like to ask them is about stars. How can they explain the stars being there so much longer than 6k years when they were just created a few days before Adam? The answers are once again divergent but in a completely new clusterfucked way. It's really entertaining.

Yeah good point, and now you mention it the creation of the other solar systems and planets that may be like ours etc! All very interesting things which constantly fill my head with questions! :?:

[alba]

Aside from the fact that this is a dick move, I don't get why these people don't understand the concept of omnipotence. Surely God knows what you believe without having to pull silly tests, right?

I think the term you're after is 'omniscience', not 'omnipotence' :P Omnipotence is all-powerful, omniscient is all-knowing.

At any rate, I think the concept behind 'testing' your faith is to see if you still adhere to it when evidence seems to suggest otherwise. That is, it's God's way of separating true believers from the people like me who believed until I could no longer ally it with science. It still doesn't make sense to me, though, because of the whole omniscience thing. If God is omniscient, then he knows a person's true beliefs and should know without testing whether or not an individual's faith is strong enough to withstand scientific or logical intrusion. I also think it's kind of slimy to test people's faith in the unknown by planting something that seems, logically, to be true.

[Discobiscuit]

I agree with both of you, Conuly and alba. Christians claim that God is not only omniscient and omnipotent, but he is also all-loving and the ultimate manifestation of Truth. So why would a loving manifestation of Truth pull a trick on his creatures? I expect tricks from trickster gods like Loki or Coyote, not a god that claims to stand for Truth.

[Renting with Raggles]

hmmm. I believe that God started it all when you put it that way. I do believe that all life has evolved as has our own planet and solar system. We can even see mankind evolving here in N. America from when white Europians came over in the late 1500's to present day. And even in our own lifespans we have seen insects/animals evolve. So I guess I am the latter.

Definitely not a creationist, either old or young earth. Most scientists are actually like you, ladypuglover: they would accept the evidence of natural mechanisms by which the universe formed/ species evolved, but believe in a higher power that got everything started. Accepting naturalistic explanations of the universe does not makesomeone an atheist.

But may I recommend please, that you not call yourself a creationist? You are lumping yourself in with people like Rick Santorum! :shock:

I don't think there's any shorthand term for a theist who accepts real science, which is a shame.

[pomology]

:? Maybe your right as I believe that the earth is billions of years old and that mankind has been here for at least 40,000 years. I believe God created all things good or bad but I sure as heck don't believe the fundy "science". So, what the hell am I then if not a creationist?

And boy did I open the door for that one! :lol: No mean name calling now, I want to know what the term is.

Yeah, I would also say that you're not a creationist. I'd call you an adherent of theistic evolution. Which would essentially mean that God created the world but used what we would call scientific means to do it.

[clibbyjo]

My son and I used to work on an archeological dig with another homeschooled boy and his mom who were Christian. Our archeologist was an athesist . One day they got into it and he asked her point blank how old the world was. She said "Maybe 10,000 years,carbon dating is not accurate." They went back and forth for a long time and she finally said they will agree to disagree. She continued on with the dig, and my son and hers are still friends. This was years ago, butI am pretty sure she told me she allows him to hear other opinions so they can disprove them with their beliefs.:/

[Rachel333]

God created them and they coexisted with humans. They died out naturally. OR Satan created them and they died out in the flood. Those are the main two I've heard. (Though suggesting that Satan can create things like God can is kind of sacrilegious.) They also believe that dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible. You can read the AiG explanation if you want to feel like punching yourself in the face. http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... -the-bible

[ladypuglover]

So I should say I am an adherent of theistic evolution? I'm not being snarky, I'm just trying to wrap my tongue and brain around this new term. Will other people know what I mean what I say this or will I need to explain it like I did here?

[emmiedahl]

LPL, you are simply an evolutionist. I believe in God as a Creator, but I also believe in evolution. There is no room in Creationism for people like us.

[ladypuglover]

well, you can teach an old dog new tricks after all. I'm still trying to sort this all out as I always thought that creationist were people like me who thought like I did. Now I am going to have to go through a long list of folks and ask them just how they define being a creationist. I foresee a ton of heated talks in my future. :(

[loratliff]

My boyfriend told me that one time, when he was walking through the Museum of Natural History here in NYC—lots of dinosaurs and :gasp: evolution—with his fundie-lite brother, and his brother said "Man, can you believe people really believe this stuff?" :roll:

I'm surprised my boyfriend didn't disown him then. (He since has.)

[trebello]

Ladypuglover, I agree that you are probably a theistic evolutionist. But that's only if you feel like you need some kind of label. You believe in God, you accept evidence from science... do you really need a name-tag? Learning and growing is one of the greatest things. I'd love to have you in class! You are every instructor's dream! Learning is all about seeing things in a different light. That is why I love my career. Not to sound like a cliche, but I learn as much from my students (about all kinds of things), as they do from me. Keep talking/thinking it all out.

[BayLee_10]

Wouldn't you think that fundies would get tired of 'God's tests'? Anything that is scientific is a test of faith directly from Him if you believe as they do.

[doggie]

Wouldn't you think that fundies would get tired of 'God's tests'? Anything that is scientific is a test of faith directly from Him if you believe as they do.

the idea that a loving god is always testing you is not exactly the idea of love I come up with. but I guess god does not trust fundies either.

[JesusFightClub]

Hmm, how the school resolved it when I was growing up was that evolution was true, but God had to explain to people how they came about and that they were to obey him. So he put in the story of Adam and Eve to the Bible, it's a kind of poetic shorthand explanation, because the people in those days couldn't understand the more complicated truth yet.

However we were also told the story of Job was literally true and Leviathan was a dinosaur! Which is a bit fucked up IMO.

[DarkAnts]

Hmm, how the school resolved it when I was growing up was that evolution was true, but God had to explain to people how they came about and that they were to obey him. So he put in the story of Adam and Eve to the Bible, it's a kind of poetic shorthand explanation, because the people in those days couldn't understand the more complicated truth yet.

However we were also told the story of Job was literally true and Leviathan was a dinosaur! Which is a bit fucked up IMO.

My science teacher told his fundie students that they did not have to believe the science behind evolution. They just had to show that they understood the material that was present to them in class. I thought that this was a reasonable statement. I did not believe most of the material in my theology class. I thought that the theology teacher was stark raving mad. I still think he is.

[shangrila]

However we were also told the story of Job was literally true and Leviathan was a dinosaur! Which is a bit fucked up IMO.

I can"t stop laughing. This is even better than the recent reptilian humanoid theories that circulate around the internet.

[Sister Mary Savage]

I still don't know how the fundies gather that the earth is only 6,000 years old. There was an episode where the Duggars go to some kind of place to dig for diamonds and Boob (with his infinite Boob wisdom) declares that people use "circular reasoning" to explain carbon/fossil dating or something like that.

[Jenesis Jexodus]

I love how the fundies give themselves power to alter a reality to support their beliefs. With the ability they give themselves to change reality to support whatever it is they believe they can assure themselves infallibility. A fundie can never be wrong as long as they say they are right.