What Is It Like to Break Free From Fundyism?

[Sister Mary Savage]

I've wondered about what it would be like if one of the Duggars (or another fundy slave) were to break free from their cult. How do you think they would deal with the real world?

[Deleted07]

Well I presume they would be very scared, since they are basically taught that everyone outside their circle are pillaging debauchering heathens!

And thats pretty much how they work, is off fear. If you do not do as Mommy and Daddy says, you are breaking a commandment and are going to Hell! You'll burn for eternity, you don't want that now do you?

[NurseNell]

I've wondered about what it would be like if one of the Duggars (or another fundy slave) were to break free from their cult. How do you think they would deal with the real world?

I just finished reading Church of Lies by Flora Jessop, who left the FLDS. It was very, very difficult. I don't think it would be quite as hard for a Duggar since they've never been confined to 2 small, isolated communities like Flora was. And Flora was regularly molested and rapped by her father. The leadership of the FLDS makes the Duggars look liberal. But I still think it would be very difficult. So much of what they've been taught simply isn't true. And they'd be developmentally delayed compared to others of the same age. Look at Josh, who is pretty free to do as he pleases now that he's married. He and Anna have even spent time with Anna's non-fundie sisters and their families. From Josh's instagrams we can see developmentally he's like a teenager. It would be the same with any fundie who's been very sheltered. Poor Sarah Maxwell, she'd need a ton of support to leave.

[OohLaLa]

Well I presume they would be very scared, since they are basically taught that everyone outside their circle are pillaging debauchering heathens!

Yes, this exactly. As I mentioned on the other thread, I wasn't raised exactly fundie, but enough that when I moved out and started living in the real world I was shocked that the same people I'd always been taught to hate and judge--I mean pray for and hope are saved--turned out to be really awesome people. It was mind-blowing to me.

Also trying to play catch up w/ almost two decades at the time of missed pop culture was difficult. Friends would always be having conversations about music or tv shows from when they were kids that I was completely clueless. And it took a long time not to blush and be embarrassed at dirty jokes. Now I can hold my own with the best of them. ;)

They would be in for such a rude awakening. Hence why some of my friends, still trapped in that lifestyle, will probably never break free. There is so much to be unlearned and relearned.

[freealljs]

It is very scary to leave fundy-land. It's like taking a leap of faith and not really knowing where one will land spiritually. I think they would feel as though they would be struck by lightening if they went against their god and their authority figure. Fortunately, for the Duggar children, they have seen the world and are not so isolated. They've taken trips, thanks ala TLC.

Yes, Sarah Maxwell will need a ton of support to leave, but she must know that people like us are there to assist her.

We've seen people break free of fundy-land, such as Anna Duggar's sister, Suzie. She's such an inspiration!

[NurseNell]

I have a friend who was a pastor's kid, born and raised in Pakistan. They were Lutheran, not fundie at all. Pakistan was however very fundamental and they lived near the Afghan border so very isolated from the rest of the world. When she came to the United States for college she said it was very difficult. She went to St. Olaf in Northfield, MN. It is a Lutheran college, that compared to nearby very liberal Carleton College is pretty conservative. She thought it was a den of iniquity. Even now she doesn't know the music, movies, TV shows, or popular culture that her peers knew their first 18 years. So I imagine a fundie raised here but homeschooled and kept fairly isolated would have a similar hard time. And my friend had the advantage of all her aunts, uncles, and cousins living nearby.

[snarkbillie]

I don't know if I'll ever be free. I try but the things I was raised with won't go away. I was sitting in the living room with a non relative male earlier and I felt very uncomfortable. We were talking about the weather and cookies and other innocuous things and I had a very real undercurrent of panic and shame. I wasn't supposed to be alone with him. I wasn't supposed to talk to him. I had a fleeting feeling of resentment towards my husband for leaving me in this situation.

It's completely ridiculous. I feel like my parents ruined me.

[Seven Severn]

Yes, Sarah Maxwell will need a ton of support to leave, but she must know that people like us are there to assist her.

How would we assist her? I don't mean to be a debbie downer, but there are very practical considerations that would have to be addressed. If one of these women should leave they might not have much more than the clothes on their backs. If Sarah Maxwell approached me in Costco and asked for my help what would I do? Is there a Free Jinger safe house? How would we actually help someone who came to one of us? How many of us would be able to house and completely support someone for a couple of years while they got caught up on their education and found a job? What if they brought a kid or kids with them? I know I wouldn't be able to do it; right now $5.00 is a lot of money for me and will be for the foreseeable future plus I don't have the room. Then there's the stress of having a very needy stranger in your home.

I've thought about safe houses for a while and there's a house not too far from me that would make a great safe house: two and a half stories; five bedrooms; three full baths; two half baths; large dining, living, and family rooms; a large wrap-around screened porch. The kitchen is partially renovated, but the rest of the house is in very rough shape. It's located in a nice neighborhood that happens to be three blocks from a good community college with an extensive health sciences program. The bank-approved list price is $150,000 and barring major foundation and roof work would probably cost that again for renovations. Yearly property taxes are around $3,000, iirc. I would love to be able to buy this place, completely renovate and supply it, hire counselors and tutors, pay for tuition and all the bills, etc. while women could learn about and adjust to the real world.

Other than a multi-million dollar foundation how can these women be helped in any significant way? I want to help, but how?

(Fuck, it's taken me forever to write this damn comment)

edit to correct spelling

[doggie]

fundy parents know this is their way of keeping the flock in tact. myself if it takes this to keep your kids inline you have some bad parenting skills.

[Brainsample]

First, I had to break from the religious stuff that didn't make sense and/or was abusive. But the greater and most difficult part of that was breaking from my family. I lost all of them in the process since everything they didn't like they said was demonic. That became pretty old pretty quickly.

[Bookworm]

Interesting that the comments keep mentioning fear, since that was the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw the title. It was very scary.

I was not nearly as fundie as many of the people we follow here, but even though I had always had questioning taught as a virtue, when I actually began to question things, it was exhilarating and terrifying.

And yes, I am quite behind on a lot of cultural things. Probably the scariest aspect of all this for me, though, has been dealing with the realization that my parents were not only mistaken about some things, but that their choices and wrong beleiefs have had real - and bad - consequences. For fundie kids, you do tend to grow up loving your parents very deeply, and coming to terms with the idea that they messed up SO MUCH is extremely difficult.

[1004srs]

If someone came to me and asked for help breaking out of fundyism - I'd do it. I'd offer any assistance that I could within reason.

[Peas n carrots]

I'd like to say I can take someone under my wing, and I would mean well...I may have the financial resources but I doubt I truly have what it takes personally to help...ie someone that can be a de facto therapist. I'm a good listener, but I don't know if I could truly be the emotional support someone so vulnerable would need. I think it takes a special kind of person to do that.

Like I said, my heart is in the right place, I just don't think I really could provide what some of these young women really need emotionally.

[pixydust]

It is pretty scray, and I did it in baby steps (we were fundie-lite to not at all fundie in apearance, but had very scary fundie-extreme to cult like beliefs) (I think I've talked about this before, sorry if I'm repeating myself): watching old Hitchcock movies late at night on AMC, then PG-13 movies, then a rated R movie, listening to 50's music, progeressing to 90's grunge and alternarock, flirting, dating, kissing, etc. I did this stuff intentionally, constantly pushing the boundries at home and for myself. I know that I wouldn't have been able to do it if my brother hadn't of been doing it with me (well, not the dating stuff! haha). With every step that I took, I realized that I was the same person. I didn't change who I was, I grew and stretched my way of thinking.

It took deciding that I would rather burn in hell than even consider claiming Christian again that I 100% got away...funny thing, my family followed.

I do think that I am a fundie family's nightmare, and exactly what they worry will happen if they give a little bit of room to stretch to their kids - walking away completly and hating Christianity. That's a problem with their religion, not the kids or the world.

[holierthanyou]

I did it in baby steps

listening to 50's music, progeressing to 90's grunge and alternarock, flirting, dating, kissing, etc.

I did this stuff intentionally, constantly pushing the boundries

So you are the reason I had to listen to all those sermons about the little foxes! :doh:

[pixydust]

So you are the reason I had to listen to all those sermons about the little foxes! :doh:

Haha, yup, that was me! Sorry! I had to get my groove on, and Michael W Smith and Petra just wern't doing it anymore! :dance:

[GenerationCedarchip]

I think it's different for different people. It can be scary and hard, and I found that what I needed to do was to figure out what I really did believe. And for that a good (non-fundie) church that encourages one to really think and question things as well as to engage with the world, or a good secular counselor that does the same from a non-religious perspective is invaluable.

[Conuly]

Just out of curiosity, what sermons on the little foxes?

[Angri-la]

Scary as hell. My family did a number on my psyche about the secular world. I married a "born again" fundie, and things got worse. The parents lay the foundation to keep them under their thumb.

I agree with poster above: My family ceasing to speak to me still hurts, and I have my own now.

[RR88]

It's frightening and it's thrilling. To me, the little things are exciting. I take pleasure in being able to buy something at the grocery store because it tastes good or is on sale...and not even think about whether or not it's kosher.

But I also fear the religious people from my past. If I'm in public and see (from a distance) my high school principal, or certain neighbors, I make sure not to cross paths with any of them.

[RR88]

If someone came to me and asked for help breaking out of fundyism - I'd do it. I'd offer any assistance that I could within reason.

There's an organization on the East Coast, "Footsteps", that provides educational and other resources to people leaving Hasidism.

[pixydust]

Just out of curiosity, what sermons on the little foxes?

If I remember right (and it's been 16 years since I have sat through a sermon!) "little foxes" are people who look all good and fundie, but in reality are bad influences and will stir up the "sheep". I'm pretty sure that I inspired those "lessons" in our youth group, I came in on more than one Sunday morning looking hungover due to having been at a Violent Femmes (or who ever) concert the night before with my brother and didn't get home until 2, smelling like cigarettes and having beer in my hair from some jerk that can't hold their cup upright while pogoing! Damn, those were the good old days! haha

[holierthanyou]

If I remember right (and it's been 16 years since I have sat through a sermon!) "little foxes" are people who look all good and fundie, but in reality are bad influences and will stir up the "sheep". I'm pretty sure that I inspired those "lessons" in our youth group, I came in on more than one Sunday morning looking hungover due to having been at a Violent Femmes (or who ever) concert the night before with my brother and didn't get home until 2, smelling like cigarettes and having beer in my hair from some jerk that can't hold their cup upright while pogoing! Damn, those were the good old days! haha

Yes, it's taken from Song of Solomon 2:15. In the middle of an entire book dedicated to some pretty erotic poetry between lovers, there is one line that refers to little foxes spoiling the vines of tender grapes. Since most fundy churches have no qualms about pulling a verse out of context to make the point they want to be made (and which they believe God should have made more clear somewhere in the Bible), the interpretation I had always heard (with little variance) was all about how the little foxes started out good, but that it was a "slippery slope", and once they first committed the smallest sin it was a "gateway" to bigger sins, until finally the little foxes were spoiling the vines.

It was a useful sermon to pull out in response to: a woman cutting her hair short, a teen repenting of listening to worldly contemporary christian music, or use as a "caution" for members to shun any fellow members who weren't up to the holiness standards required the by the preacher.

Edited to correct my error of typing 'proverbs' instead of 'song of solomon'. Thanks for catching it, RR88.

[RR88]

Yes, it's taken from Proverbs 2:15. In the middle of an entire book dedicated to some pretty erotic poetry between lovers, there is one line that refers to little foxes spoiling the vines of tender grapes. Since most fundy churches have no qualms about pulling a verse out of context to make the point they want to be made (and which they believe God should have made more clear somewhere in the Bible), the interpretation I had always heard (with little variance) was all about how the little foxes started out good, but that it was a "slippery slope", and once they first committed the smallest sin it was a "gateway" to bigger sins, until finally the little foxes were spoiling the vines.

It was a useful sermon to pull out in response to: a woman cutting her hair short, a teen repenting of listening to worldly contemporary christian music, or use as a "caution" for members to shun any fellow members who weren't up to the holiness standards required the by the preacher.

It's from Shir HaShirim (The Song of Songs), not Proverbs. I never understood the "foxes" reference, to be honest.

[Crackedeggs]

maybe it's time we take the baby steps to becoming an organization, not just a snarkfest. I'm poor as a churchmouse, no pun intended, but I'd love to see something like that.