Amy from ClosedHeartMind is glorifying UK abortion protests

[Esther]

First off we don't have freedom of speech. I know! That sounds terrible! In reality it isn't. We can say what the fuck we like, I can even say, 'I hate the royal family and I think they should go the Romanov way!' in front of Buckingham palace and nobody will give a shit.

What we cannot do is harass people. Nor can we incite violence, traumatise people, or call for the bombing of abortion clinics. Sometimes we are just too damn nice :D

I'm European, too - Belgian - and I too love our 'lack' of freedom in that respect. Woohoo!

[sassyNoz47]

I have said this before, but dr tiller was my doctor...and my greatest fear, my biggest anxiety is that these protesters who march there every day would commit violence while I was there and expose the fact I had terminated to everyone in the world. Or the violence would prevent me from terminating.

That is why I think I need to be completely out about it.

really Treemom I didn't know.... I didn't know him personally but I will say the protesting that went on there scared me, YOU are 100% correct to of been worried. Wasn't there gun fire there at one time? I just can't remember if that really happened or if I'm thinking of a movie. What made me ILL was when he was killed I actually heard people cheering!! OMG....this was a man doing his job obviously he cared about his patients or he would of left a long time ago , He didn't deserve to be killed - and in church with his family around? What kind of world do we live in?

[openmindheart]

Just got back on line today and checked this out. Lots of good comments and discussions. I think we all just need to be patient with each other. I will not understand your viewpoints and you will not understand mine immediatley. Chnage takes time-sometimes lots of it. And there is a difference between understanding someones viewpont and agreeing with it. I don't think we will find common ground unless we see eye to eye on the fact that it is a baby we are talking about. Saw a story yesterday about a girl who dumbed her baby in the trash at the prom. Is what she did any different than someone who aborts the baby very late in pregnancy? Here was my response to all of the comments I received on this post and from what I read here.

Amy said...

I had already written this post before my dialouge with Free

Jinger began. Afterwards I figured it may bring some controversey, but that it was worth keeping as it was. I agree with Henny who said the real way to change people is to befriend the moms. I donate to the liocal pregnancy center and wish I could volunteer there-maybe when my kids are a bit older. I did not realize and think about how these particular protests where being held outside the clincs where women are going in for abortions. I have been told that yelling is not the most effective method but praying and gently talking to the women is. I do still think the graphic pictures showing people what abortion really is (yes, they are real) have there place, but perhaps outside the abortion clinic is not the place.

December 28, 2011 9:57 AM

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Now it is time to get off this computer with dial up. Way to slow and I have better things to do with my family than sit here waiting the next hour for things to download. Sigh!

[Crackedeggs]

They do that big gory picture and bringing their kids stuff for a reason.... When I was working where I had to take documents to courthouses, I always took my then 4 year old with me. We had to go through one of those protests, walk through the lines, at a courthouse. Those pictures had a huge impact on her, and now she is pro life, quite vehemently. Most of the girls she knows her age are too, even the "bad ass" ones. All those years of seeing that stuff as little kids, worked, on a huge number of them. These are kids now 13-18.

I just don't talk to her about it, she gets too angry. At least she's not anti-birth control.

[Guest Anonymous]

The thing is, Amy, I do understand your viewpoint - I just vehemently disagree with you.

The idea that you had already wrote the post before your last discussions with FJ, but decided to post anyway, is frankly just stupid. If you seriously want to change the world, don't you think it is worth thinking your ideas through before you post them to your public blog?

I'll repeat what I said in my earlier post:

Amy, please listen to Andy Stephenson and hear the incoherence in his message, before you praise his "world changing" activities.

Seriously, listen and come back to talk it over: http://www.jubilee-church.co.uk/Media/A ... Stephenson

He has some really intelligent things to say : for example, when challenged by a woman who took issue with him as a man standing outside an abortion clinic, on the basis that he was a man and had no experience of the issues, his response was,

"but what is it about arguments that have genders, genders do not have arguments. I mean, I could have said to her, "Do you have an opinion on rape, because that's a man involved in that, you're a woman, you should....." but, anyway, um...they will attack us personally or just change the subject.

Really Amy, is this how you think the world will be changed?

Have you listened to Andy Stephenson's message, yet? If so, do you still think that he is a shining example of how Christians can change the world?

[Sola]

Just got back on line today and checked this out. Lots of good comments and discussions. I think we all just need to be patient with each other. I will not understand your viewpoints and you will not understand mine immediatley. Chnage takes time-sometimes lots of it. And there is a difference between understanding someones viewpont and agreeing with it. I don't think we will find common ground unless we see eye to eye on the fact that it is a baby we are talking about. Saw a story yesterday about a girl who dumbed her baby in the trash at the prom. Is what she did any different than someone who aborts the baby very late in pregnancy? Here was my response to all of the comments I received on this post and from what I read here.

Awaits Treemom coming and ripping you a well deserved new arsehole.

[formergothardite]

The thing Amy, you haven't even cleared up why you don't view abortion as the same as a mothering hiring someone to murder her two month old (you just ended up posting hmmm, when pinned down on this question in the other thread) and you also flip-flopped and said you thought abortion maybe should be legal. If you really thought it was the same as a teen dumping their baby in the trash, you wouldn't have done that. Unless you also have to debate if killing already born children should be legal.

Like I told Jericho, if I really viewed a fetus as a baby, there would be no doubt in my mind that abortion should be illegal and mothers who choose to do so would be tried for murder. I don't feel like a fetus is a baby, so I don't feel that way, but you claim to view a fetus as a baby, yet unless you have changed your mind, then you don't act like you really do.

So before you start posting anit-abortion stuff, you really should clear up in your mind why you posted that way and couldn't answer the tough questions about abortion. Because if you really think that is a baby and you are all iffy about killing it, your morals are not that great. Now if you don't really think it is equal to a already born baby, then just own up to it.

[valsa]

Saw a story yesterday about a girl who dumbed her baby in the trash at the prom. Is what she did any different than someone who aborts the baby very late in pregnancy?

People this stupid should not be allowed to breed!

OMH, a baby (ie- born) can be cared for by someone else if the mother is unable or unwilling to care for it. No one else can carry a fetus if the mother can't or doesn't want to.

[Nothing2CHere]

Awaits Treemom coming and ripping you a well deserved new arsehole.

Oh, Amy. Amy, Amy, Amy. *sigh* You bring me back, you really do, for when I was a young college student, this was my logic, too. Now, I was raised Catholic. I didn't go to Catholic school, but I attended my Sunday School classes and church every weekend. Back in the early to mid 90's, though, I don't recall growing up with all this anti-abortion propaganda that's so prevalent today. I don't even remember when I learned what abortion was, possibly some time in high school. I don't recall sermons in church talking about how evil abortion is or church-sponsored trips to Washington, DC to march for the rights of the unborn, or seeing the displays of the little white crosses for all the aborted babies, or seeing notices in the bulletin that there was going to be a Rosary for all the "unwanted aborted babies." (<--- this was the wording used in a local Catholic church bulletin a few weeks ago)

I never thought much about abortion back then, because it was a non-issue to little old me who hadn't even started dating until college (because none of the guys in high school asked me out - their loss). When I finally started becoming more and more aware of it as a social issue, and thinking, "Hmmm, maybe I should think about this a little more," what you wrote was exactly my simplistic logic - "Well, if I carry a baby to term and then toss it in a dumpster, it's considered murder, so why wouldn't it also be murder before the baby is actually born?" That was good enough reasoning for my little I'm-Catholic-therefore-I-should-be-pro-life mind. And I didn't think about it much more than that, because I was never challenged about my beliefs.

And THEN, I guess you could say I ate from the tree of knowledge, and I started learning more about life in general, and sex, and feminism, and world issues, and somehow I became a little bit of a hippie tree-hugger in a lot of my thinking. I still considered myself pro-life, but as in pro-all life - I didn't support abortion, but I also came to not support the death penalty, or sending our soldiers off to war, and started to believe that it's our government's duty to help those who cannot help themselves. And you want to kill an abortion doctor to show how pro-life you are, where the hell is the logic in THAT? And although I didn't support abortion, and I used that "Well, if I carry the baby to term and then dump it," line of reasoning, I didn't necessarily want it to become illegal, just unnecessary. I came to be one of those, "Oh, if only people didn't chose abortion as an option, if only they had other options more readily available to them! If only they had access to places like, say, a pregnancy crisis clinic and the proper resources, they wouldn't make that decision! And if people learned how to better use birth control! Then maybe we wouldn't need abortions!"

And now, several, several more years have passed, and I've made myself look at the issue even more. I've learned more about fetus development, and learned more about reasons why women really do have abortions. I've read the stories that people have posted on FreeJinger, and no longer make widespread sweeping assumptions about why women who have abortions have them. I've learned that every story is unique, and no matter what my personal viewpoints on the matter are, I have no right to impose them on others.

On one hand, I'm still to a degree pro-life, because I still would like to see abortions as legal but unnecessary. My thought process on that is more refined now, though. I don't think waiting periods and forcing women to view ultrasound photos is the way to go about it. I do think that making sure if a woman wants to carry her baby to term but doesn't think she can afford it, that she has access to the means

- food stamps, WIC, baby supplies, daycare, counseling, whatever she needs to do it - is. I want to see my government setting up programs to help these children after they are born, and their mothers, too. I also even more strongly now believe that we need better, comprehensive sex education so that people are making better decisions before a baby even comes into the picture.

But ultimately, now I'm pro-choice, because it's not my place to decide for anyone else whether the procedure is necessary or unnecessary for them. I just want them to have the resources available to them, whatever decision they make. And part of being pro-all-life is caring not just about the unborn baby, but the living mother, and the choice that's best for her.

[kayray]

Off topic but I was about 7 months pg with son #3 and had my 2 little ones in tow when we came across some protesters outside of the hospital. They were thrilled when I showed up and asked me to help protest as I was proof of pro-life. I thanked them and said no as I was on my way to have an abortion. They freaked out and asked how could I abort my un-born baby. I told them I wasn't aborting my baby but my 2 toddlers as they got on my last nerve that day. They were flabbergasted and the hospital guards were able to safely escort us inside for my prenatal check up.

I really wish I had been there to see the look on their faces!

:clap: (a "slow clap", even!)

[Terrie]

I don't think we will find common ground unless we see eye to eye on the fact that it is a baby we are talking about.

So, basically, to find common ground we have to change our minds and agree with you. Sorry, but around here, we're not into making hard issues easy on people. Saying that it's a "fact" doesn't make a fetus a baby, anymore than saying it's a "fact" that the moon is an independent light source according to the Bible makes it so.

[samurai_sarah]

... never mind...