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Fundies doing kind things?


Burris

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At one point, I grew my hair long, wore long, loose dresses and tried to be submissive to my husband. What led me into fundamentalism was a sincere desire to follow god. Unfortunately, fundamentalism also took away some of my compassion.

Imagine for a moment that you honestly believed that god wanted women to never cut their hair. You notice that there are many Christian women have short hair. Because they read the same bible that you do, you conclude that they are purposely ignoring certain verses in the bible out of pride. You don't start out wanting to be judgmental. Overtime, there are so many rules that a real Christian should follow that it becomes almost second nature to judge those who don't follow them.

There is also the belief that your faith is fragile so you isolate yourself with like minded people which makes it easier to look down on others.

In addition, you are taught that god controls everything. If something bad happens, it must be because the individual did something to cause their suffering. It is a little harder to be compassionate if you think that the other person could have taken steps to avoid being hurt.

One reason that I gave up fundamentalism is that I did not like myself anymore. I was no longer me. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't hold onto my beliefs and not be bitchy.

Do I think that fundamentalists can be kind? Yes, I do but overtime the belief system does harden many people's heart.

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I think some here may be confusing evangelicals with fundies. A few similarities exist in their religious philosophies--both believe the Bible condemns homosexuality; both think abortion is murder; both believe Jesus is God and the only way to salvation, etc. Other tenets of their approach to god are similar; HOWEVER, that is where they part ways.

An evangelical will reach out to the unsaved masses in love, as they believe the Bible directs, in order to bring them to God. Fundies reject "the world" and all things "worldly," therefore, they insulate themselves from the ebil, condemning them and hating them, because (as they will tell you) God hates them and their sin (think Zsu and homosexuals and her statements regarding). Fundies seek to maintain their holiness by separating themselves from the world--not by showing love to the world ("the world" being everyone and everything not fundie, and often even other fundies will be rejected because of some minor doctrinal difference).

Bottom line seems to be that evangelicals are more apt to reach out in what they consider love in order to win others, helping them at their point of physical need with the goal being to bring them into the fold; fundies preach condemnation and reject those who have not joined their specific group. They do often help the needy among themselves, but just as often, they will view a fellow fundie's need as a sign that God is "dealing" with them because of sin in his/her life and are quick to preach that to them rather than offering assistance.

So.....

what makes a person a fundie is by necessity what drives them to be unkind. Fundieism is not kind to non-fundieism or they wouldn't be fundie.

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One reason that I gave up fundamentalism is that I did not like myself anymore. I was no longer me. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't hold onto my beliefs and not be bitchy.

Do I think that fundamentalists can be kind? Yes, I do but overtime the belief system does harden many people's heart.

This sounds so much like me. You really do get so focused on rules and appearance that you loose sight of compassion and that you're supposed to love people and be kind, even if they have different beliefs and standards. The separation thing also makes it hard, because if you're seen helping or associating with people who do not live by all the fundie rules, you get labeled a compromiser and told you're sinning by association with them or condoning their sin by helping or being friendly to them.

It's odd because I know a few people know who are ex-fundies and involved in community service and charity work that would have been looked at suspiciously when they were part of the fundie culture.

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Except that the ladies all clamored to take the leftovers home with them. I guess it belonged to them and they were entitled to it, but it would have been more generous to let the homeless people have it the next day. It just seemed so weird to me, like they were just having a fun little outing and didn't think about the actual people going through the line.

That kind of thing burns my ass. And I agree that they probably weren't thinking about the actual people they were supposed to be helping. A lot of people like that only do good things to get Godly brownie points, not to actually make a difference. I remember the first time I went to a gay pride parade that had protestors. I got into an argument with one of them (hey, I was 14 and mouthy) about why they were even there and eventually got him to confess he was preaching to us because God would reward him, in heaven, for doing so. He didn't care about our souls, only about what preaching to us would get him.

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I think some here may be confusing evangelicals with fundies.

I agree. We probably should have defined "fundie" earlier in the thread. Personally, I tend to go by FSTDT's definition:

A usually religious person or entity characterized by one or more of the following: an extreme lack of rationality, fondness of logical fallacies, repeated use of emotional appeals, rigid adherence to Bronze Age mythology, endorsement of pseudoscientific nonsense, opposition to the First Amendment, bigotry and discriminatory attitudes towards minority groups, belief that certain children's media is the work of Satan, and propensity to post Bible verses instead of valid argument.

It should be noted that one can be religious--even a fundamentalist--but not actually attain the vaunted status of "fundie," which needs that special touch only people fitting stereotypical caricatures can provide. Additionally, religion is technically not even a pre-requisite for this, although blind adherence to its ideologies (and those of politics) is perhaps the #1 source of fundies in the universe. Rigid, arrogant, "know-it-all-and-confidently-force-it-on-everyone-else" authoritarian strains of both amplify the propensity to fundyism, while more moderate, "this-seems-like-a-good-idea-but-might-be-wrong, so-let's-not-be-total-jackasses-about-it" varieties can keep it in check or even undermine it.

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How? I'm not trying to be contentious with you, just curious about what would make an evangelical not fundie. The definition of evangelical http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism looks pretty fundie to me. They believe in the born-again thing, the inerrancy of the Bible and that they are so right and others so wrong that they must share the good news with everyone or those poor sinners will burn in hell.

With or without a long skirt, is that not fundamentalism?

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Guest Anonymous
I think some here may be confusing evangelicals with fundies. A few similarities exist in their religious philosophies--both believe the Bible condemns homosexuality; both think abortion is murder; both believe Jesus is God and the only way to salvation, etc. Other tenets of their approach to god are similar; HOWEVER, that is where they part ways.

An evangelical will reach out to the unsaved masses in love, as they believe the Bible directs, in order to bring them to God. Fundies reject "the world" and all things "worldly," therefore, they insulate themselves from the ebil, condemning them and hating them, because (as they will tell you) God hates them and their sin (think Zsu and homosexuals and her statements regarding). Fundies seek to maintain their holiness by separating themselves from the world--not by showing love to the world ("the world" being everyone and everything not fundie, and often even other fundies will be rejected because of some minor doctrinal difference).

Bottom line seems to be that evangelicals are more apt to reach out in what they consider love in order to win others, helping them at their point of physical need with the goal being to bring them into the fold; fundies preach condemnation and reject those who have not joined their specific group. They do often help the needy among themselves, but just as often, they will view a fellow fundie's need as a sign that God is "dealing" with them because of sin in his/her life and are quick to preach that to them rather than offering assistance.

So.....

what makes a person a fundie is by necessity what drives them to be unkind. Fundieism is not kind to non-fundieism or they wouldn't be fundie.

I am not sure I agree. I know people who hold to the fundamentalist, literal interpretation of the bible but are able to reconcile this with their desire to help others because of the exhortation to be 'in the world but not of it'. I agree though that the people who show genuine kindness to others are few and far between.

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You can be both Evangelical and Fundie, but they generally aren't the same thing. Fundie light, maybe, but Evangelicals aren't just a type of fundie. I know liberal Evangelicals, for example. Some Evangelical churches have female pastors. Even the conservative ones are a lot different from fundie churches. You'll find women who work and kids who go to public school and they're generally a lot less controlling than fundie churches.

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Mostly because there are liberal evangelicals (the evangelical left, as noted in your link). Belief in being born again does not equal fundie. They also disagree with how strictly to interpret the Bible and are socially/politically more liberal (avoiding the condemning/ discrimination against non-evangelicals)

While they are fundamentalists, "fundamentalist" does NOT equal "fundie". That takes a special extra layer of crazy (conservative evangelicals might all count though)

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Mostly because there are liberal evangelicals (the evangelical left, as noted in your link). Belief in being born again does not equal fundie. They also disagree with how strictly to interpret the Bible and are socially/politically more liberal (avoiding the condemning/ discrimination against non-evangelicals)

While they are fundamentalists, "fundamentalist" does NOT equal "fundie". That takes a special extra layer of crazy (conservative evangelicals might all count though)

oh, thanks. I was not thinking of the evangelical left.

I guess, although there are huge holes in this theory, I tend to think of a fundie as anyone who thinks I am going to Hell. :lol: But it certainly gets more complicated than that.

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Frumpers and KJV-only doesn't automatically equal fundie either.

I think KJV only actually is a pretty big sign of fundamentalism. But I also think I have a far broader view of it.

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katie davis in africa...a fundy (?lite) doing good things.

i dont have an issue with fundies who concentrate on the big issues-poverty, hunger, disease etc

I do have an issue with fundies who focus on others sex life, bodies and science (ie stem cell research)

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Sure. That's actually my primary personal experience with fundies of all stripes, which is probably why I find the FJ perspective so interesting.

Even within the cult, on a personal level genuine kindness from others was a frequent experience. It was the overall context and group dynamic that was the problem. Individuals were generally incredibly generous and kind, not just to one another but to outsiders.

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I know one that helped me out yesterday. I have been ringing that damn Salvation Army bell WAY more hours than I should have been (I'll explain in another thread, I was gonna post about it anyway) and I was tired. I was burned out. So, this guy that works at the Kroger that goes to the findie church down the road came by to get his check and check his schedule. I begged him to take over for me for an hour... even offered him five dollars to do it for me hahaha. He said he'd think about it, and he went inside.

When he came back out, he said to kee my money, he would give me a 30 minute break, AND he brought me a slice of pie from the deli. I could have hugged him. I almost did!!!!

I know another girl that goes to the Fundie college right down the road from me (Champion) and she has offered to help me clean and organize my place :) Sometimes it gets out of hand, but I am working on it!

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katie davis in africa...a fundy (?lite) doing good things.

i dont have an issue with fundies who concentrate on the big issues-poverty, hunger, disease etc

I do have an issue with fundies who focus on others sex life, bodies and science (ie stem cell research)

Except that they're not doing as much good as they want you to think, and they do it pressure people to convert more than out of compassion and wanting to help. You have to look a little closer and not just believe their PR.

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Except that they're not doing as much good as they want you to think, and they do it pressure people to convert more than out of compassion and wanting to help. You have to look a little closer and not just believe their PR.

That.......and while some individual fundies may be kind and enjoy doing for others (usually specifically others involves their own), the thrust of fundie churches is never about helping the physically needy--even if it could be considered a tool to "win them to Christ."

Fundie churches are all about soul winning....and soul winning performed in a specific way, usually door-to-door, hard-hitting and done with not much love. In fact, each soul they win is a feather in their cap, so ultimately, it's all about them.

If we're talking about true fundies, THAT is their focus......not reaching out to those in some sort of physical need. And sure, we can always find exceptions, but...................

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You can be both Evangelical and Fundie, but they generally aren't the same thing. Fundie light, maybe, but Evangelicals aren't just a type of fundie. I know liberal Evangelicals, for example. Some Evangelical churches have female pastors. Even the conservative ones are a lot different from fundie churches. You'll find women who work and kids who go to public school and they're generally a lot less controlling than fundie churches.

I know several liberal Evangelicals like that. My boyfriend has relatives who attend a small Evangelical church in which most of the women have jobs and all the kids either public or Christian schools.

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katie davis in africa...a fundy (?lite) doing good things.

i dont have an issue with fundies who concentrate on the big issues-poverty, hunger, disease etc

I do have an issue with fundies who focus on others sex life, bodies and science (ie stem cell research)

Those fundies who focus on those areas really bother me. I have seen some crazy fundies online and in my everyday life really bash stem cell research. After Christopher Reeve died, there was a fundie blogger who said that Reeve's desires for stem cell research was the reason he died. I have seen some other hateful comments from fundies on paraplegics and quadriplegics who support stem cell research. My boyfriend's mom is a occupational therapist and she has worked with paraplegics and quadriplegics and there was an incident in which one of her clients and his family left their church due to clashing with the pastor over stem cell research.

When I was in college, members of a mega church spent a week on campus talking about the evils of pre-martial sex and they pissed off a lot of people.

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I'm not trying to bring Balance to the Force here by asking this question. I'm just genuinely curious: Have you ever come across fundies and fundie-lites doing good - particularly for its own sake and not merely for show? What's the nicest thing you've seen a fundie say/do (to you or someone else)?

I think that is very kind that some fundies and fundie-lites serve in places in Africa. When you think about it, there are probably places in Africa that wouldn't have basic medical care if it wasn't for Fundies.

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I have a friend who is fundamentalist Christian, quiverfull, etc.

She is also a midwife who very frequently provides medical care free of charge for Amish women who can't afford other care. Other times, some of the families pay her only a few hundred dollars for all of her care, which is below her expenses driving to and from all the checkups, running tests, attending births, etc. To say that this is a sacrifice for her is an understatement. But she never comments on it, and serves all of her clients joyfully.

I know there are a lot of fundies who are incredibly selfish and who only do good when everyone sees, but knowing her has really shown me that not all fundies are cut from the same cloth, at least in terms of generosity.

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I have a friend who is fundamentalist Christian, quiverfull, etc.

She is also a midwife who very frequently provides medical care free of charge for Amish women who can't afford other care. Other times, some of the families pay her only a few hundred dollars for all of her care, which is below her expenses driving to and from all the checkups, running tests, attending births, etc. To say that this is a sacrifice for her is an understatement. But she never comments on it, and serves all of her clients joyfully.

I know there are a lot of fundies who are incredibly selfish and who only do good when everyone sees, but knowing her has really shown me that not all fundies are cut from the same cloth, at least in terms of generosity.

This. Your friend sounds like a very kind person. You are right some fundies only do good when everyone sees.

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