Preparing children to deal with differing beliefs

[pomology]

When my daughter was younger, she attended preschool at my workplace. One day as we were walking into the (federal) building, a man approached us and in a very friendly manner said good morning. Then he asked my daughter what Santa brought her for Christmas. My daughter responded, "Santa didn't come to my house." If looks could kill, I'd be dead. Before Mr. Judgmental could say anything, my daughter added, "We don't celebrate Christmas, we celebrate Hanukkah!" The guy nodded awkwardly and went his way.

I had a similar experience when Mormon missionaries came to my door. I was probably 15 or 16 at the time? I don't know. They gave me their opening pitch or whatever and I was like "Um.. I don't think we're interested." And they were like "Why are you not religious?" and I was like "No, we are." and they awkwardly left. I didn't actually tell them we were Jewish, but same idea of telling weird religious people you don't want their religion because you have your own.

[doggie]

hate to tell her this but she is a non believer too. This attitude will never me a mature one just a judgmental one. it really screws up people.

[Kaylee]

This. I was raised with the term 'unbeliever' used to refer to people who were not Christian--it means those who don't believe in Jesus Christ the Saviour, thus 'unbelievers'.

But a lot of people do use it in sort of a derogatory way, as if people are somehow less than them for not believing, so I can see where people could take it as a put-down. I dislike it because I've seen it used as a label to many times to either polarize people or discount somebody else's opinions or beliefs.

Also, I have friends who are Asatru, and I'm pretty sure they don't refer to me as an unbeliever because I don't worship Odin, Thor, or any of their pantheon (and they have a whole lot more gods to not believe in than we Christians do).

[lilwriter85]

I grew up in Belgium, and that mentality is so deeply weird to me, as it is to many Europeans, I think. How can you not consider Catholics Christians? I mean, they believe in Jesus and all that? It's strange. I actually mentioned that belief to my mother earlier today and she'd never heard about it before.

Here in the States, a lot of people don't consider Catholics Christians. A couple of years ago, when I was still in college there was a woman in one of my classes who talked about she used to see "Catholics and Christians arguing over the same beliefs". Some people don't understand that Catholicism is a branch of Christianity.

[emmiedahl]

I hear people say "Catholics and Christians" all the time, in a way that implies Catholics are not Christian.

I know Mormons who refer to non-Mormons as Gentiles--I am sure other Jews find that as amusing as I did.

[AnnoDomini]

Ok yeah, my family was big on the 'Catholics and Mormons aren't Christians' stuff too.

[Swamptribe]

When my daughter was younger, she attended preschool at my workplace. One day as we were walking into the (federal) building, a man approached us and in a very friendly manner said good morning. Then he asked my daughter what Santa brought her for Christmas. My daughter responded, "Santa didn't come to my house." If looks could kill, I'd be dead. Before Mr. Judgmental could say anything, my daughter added, "We don't celebrate Christmas, we celebrate Hanukkah!" The guy nodded awkwardly and went his way.

Wow, as a non Christian I had never thought of Santa as a "Christian" thing before. .Thought of Santa as more of a secular kind of guy. I ask little kids that come into work this all the time. Never dawned on me it could be an awkward question for somebody.

[Esther]

Here in the States, a lot of people don't consider Catholics Christians. A couple of years ago, when I was still in college there was a woman in one of my classes who talked about she used to see "Catholics and Christians arguing over the same beliefs". Some people don't understand that Catholicism is a branch of Christianity.

Yeah, I've been in the US for a year and a half now and I've encountered that attitude before. Out of curiosity - what is the motivation between that distinction? Presumably even fundies who believe everyone but them is ZOMGDOOMED would at least recognize that other Baptist, Methodist, etc. groups are Christians. What sets Catholics apart and makes these people perceive them as non-Christian? Is it the saints thing?

Of course, I am converting to Judaism, so I guess now I'm hellbound either way... ;)

[pomology]

I hear people say "Catholics and Christians" all the time, in a way that implies Catholics are not Christian.

I know Mormons who refer to non-Mormons as Gentiles--I am sure other Jews find that as amusing as I did.

Well, given the etymology of the word gentile, it's not a really inappropriate term. But I do find the Mormon use of it ridiculous and amusing :D

[emmiedahl]

Well, given the etymology of the word gentile, it's not a really inappropriate term. But I do find the Mormon use of it ridiculous and amusing :D

I never considered the etymology; you're right, it makes more sense when seen that way.

Still, Jews are traditionally the non-Gentile, right? We're us, they are the nations.

[finleeport]

Do you think these people will teach their kids to be insensitive towards another person's belief while smugly claiming their belief is 'true' and 'inerrant' ?

I've seen a lot of fundie Christian kids who were very rude and unfeeling towards other kids' non-christian beliefs, while telling them that Jesus is the real God in a very insensitive way.

[kunoichi66]

Do you think these people will teach their kids to be insensitive towards another person's belief while smugly claiming their belief is 'true' and 'inerrant' ?

I've seen a lot of fundie Christian kids who were very rude and unfeeling towards other kids' non-christian beliefs, while telling them that Jesus is the real God in a very insensitive way.

Hell to the yes!

[pomology]

I never considered the etymology; you're right, it makes more sense when seen that way.

Still, Jews are traditionally the non-Gentile, right? We're us, they are the nations.

Well, traditionally, yes, which is why I also find it amusing. Biblically speaking, we ARE one of the nations (or goyim as it were...)

[Esther]

Hell to the yes!

COUGH ZSU'S KIDS COUGH

[Rachel333]

I guess it's because I was raised with the term, but I also have a hard time seeing "unbelievers" as offensive. The belief they're talking about is Christianity, not belief in a deity in general. They can use it offensively, certainly, and I think it's ridiculous when Catholics aren't included in "believers", but I don't find the term inherently offensive.

I think my parents probably did a better job than most with this. They were fundie-light, but they introduced us to Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc and really stressed that even though we disagreed with them, we needed to respect other religions and that it was wrong to ever make fun of someone's religion.

[bea]

...or having affection for your life partner (this is from the comments on Raising Olives post.)

"I have a question. On one side of our family we are the only ones with children. There are two adult family members who are homosexual. They bring their “partners†to family gatherings and there isn’t outright kissing so much as holding hands, rubbing arms, etc. Basically the same public displays of a man and wife. My husband and I moved away to separate ourselves from many family members for this and similar reasons. So any holiday get together are “back homeâ€.If any comment is said that we don’t wish our children to see and we ourselves are uncomfortable,these particular members are quick to snap back with comments of us being judgmental. They are members of a Lutheran church that believes homosexuality is acceptable. This is all so sad. Any ideas on how to see certain loved ones without letting others impact negatively?"

They MOVED AWAY to get away from the gays. Wow. And the idea that a gay couple can act like, um, a gay couple at a home where they are all guests is so bothersome to them that they HAVE to comment on it.

If you're so bothered by your gay family members, who are apparently lovingly embraced by the rest of your family (which means the crazy is just confined to you, commenter) that you can't stand to have your children know they exist, go somewhere else for Christmas. Seriously - let your family celebrate without you, because you are so bent out of shape about the mere presence of Teh Gayz that you moved away.

[Rosa]

Ok yeah, my family was big on the 'Catholics and Mormons aren't Christians' stuff too.

Can you see how calling them "unbelievers" would be rude? Since Catholics are the largest Christian denomination in the world?

[Nancy Drew]

I'm from the states and went to Catholic school/church my whole life. I never heard of Catholics not being Christians until I read about fundies having that attitude. Catholicism is all about following the teachings of Christ. Any way you spin it, you can't deny they are Christians. In my opinion what sets Catholics apart from other Christians are the traditions (confession, prayers to the Virgin Mary and saints, some of the sacraments, etc.) Growing up I always felt one and the same with my friends that were protestant Christians, because we shared the same basic beliefs in the teachings of Jesus. It wasn't until I got older that I realized a lot of other Christians don't like Catholics.

Sometimes when I tell other hard-core Christians that I grew up Catholic they get quiet and say nothing, which I usually take to mean they have a negative opinion. That doesn't surprise me though, given the circumstances of what you usually hear about in the news regarding pervy priests and stupid things the pope says. I've also heard some Christians don't consider Catholics "Christian" because of worshiping saints. That's fine to disagree with that, but it doesn't make a Catholic a non-Christian because they find guidance in the lives of martyrs for Christ. Or because I usually don't discuss any religion with people at work, they think I know nothing about God when in fact I studied the bible my entire life growing up and probably know it just as well, if not better, than they do. The very same bible that many of them follow and the very same God that they follow as well. Even when you're a Christian, you get judged by fellow Christians following ultimately the same teachings from the same teacher. Silly, in my opinion.

[Rachel333]

When fundies use "Christian", though, they don't mean "follows the teachings of Christ", but rather "is going to heaven." I think they tend to think Catholics are idolaters. Depending on how fundie they are, other Christian, even Protestant, groups might not be considered Christian either. I knew a girl who said that as a child she went to Baptist church where people thought the members of the other Baptist church in town were going to hell because they used the wrong hymn book.

[samithemage]

I grew up in the Bible belt and was surrounded by Southern Baptist, but I was raised Catholic. In high school, I actually had one of my friends, who was quite smart and usually fairly well informed, tell me that Catholics weren't Christians, because they don't believe in Jesus. I just stared at her for a second, because...what the hell? I asked her where she had heard such a ridiculous statement, and she got mad. Her pastor had preached a sermon about it and she knew he must be right.

[AnnoDomini]

Can you see how calling them "unbelievers" would be rude? Since Catholics are the largest Christian denomination in the world?

Yes.

[debrand]

I grew up in the Bible belt and was surrounded by Southern Baptist, but I was raised Catholic. In high school, I actually had one of my friends, who was quite smart and usually fairly well informed, tell me that Catholics weren't Christians, because they don't believe in Jesus. I just stared at her for a second, because...what the hell? I asked her where she had heard such a ridiculous statement, and she got mad. Her pastor had preached a sermon about it and she knew he must be right.

I had a pastor tell me that Catholics didn't believe Jesus rose from the dead.

[kunoichi66]

I had a pastor tell me that Catholics didn't believe Jesus rose from the dead.

what?

[smittykins]

what?

Not trying to speak for debrand, but maybe it has something to do with the fact that Catholic churches have crucifixes?(I went to a fundie-lite church in my mid-teens to early 20s, and our pastor--who had spent several years as a missionary in Barcelona--said "We had the only church in the city with an empty cross.")

[debrand]

Not trying to speak for debrand, but maybe it has something to do with the fact that Catholic churches have crucifixes?(I went to a fundie-lite church in my mid-teens to early 20s, and our pastor--who had spent several years as a missionary in Barcelona--said "We had the only church in the city with an empty cross.")

Most Protestants claim that their cross represents the risen Christ. A few Protestants go further and claim that the crucifix means that Catholics put too much emphasis on Christ's death.

My pastor believed that the crucifix was proof that Catholics did not believe in a risen Christ at all. Because I've had a life long fascination with the Catholic Church, I tried to correct him but he refused to believe me. He was a sweet man but he was a fundamentalist and refused to look at evidence that contradicted him.