More anti-vaxers

[Rachel333]

Not quite what I meant (because I expressed it badly and still feel awkward discussing such things), but that is good to know. I knew that women could spread STIs to other women, but I guess I just wasn't thinking about that.

I actually think the main reason I wouldn't get it right now is the cost. I'm pretty sure my insurance wouldn't cover it. If I find out otherwise I'll probably just get it.

[valsa]

I can understand feeling awkward talking about it. It's good that you are though, because safety should always be a top priority. If you're talking about not having sex at all, it is true that you wouldn't need the vaccination right now. I think a lot of women would get it anyway though, just so they wouldn't have to worry about if they had sex spontaneously (sort of like how even people who aren't planning on having sex might still keep condoms and other protection around) If you ever do plan on having sex, you should definitely get vaccinated beforehand,, if you can afford it.

I also understand the cost aspect. I get health care through a low-income clinic that covers all vaccinations except Gardisil, so I'm in the same boat there.

[pomology]

Sexual contact, intravenous drug use, and I believe bodily fluid contact with someone who has Hep B. Babies whose parents do not have Hep B are not at risk for it, so it is quite comparable to the Gardisil vaccine.

In fact, when the Hep B originally came out, it was recommended (therefore paid for) only for those in high-risk groups. I worked in special ed at the time with mildly violent juvenile offenders, and yet since my students were not at the most violent level, my insurance and the school district would not pay for the series. And if they don't want to pay, they assure you the illness is no big deal and you are not at risk. ; )

So Hep B was originally intended for an even smaller subset than Gardisil, and now a couple of decades later it is (almost always) given at birth and required for school admission.

Hep B is eminently more easily transferable than HPV. Look at how people can get Hep B and how people can get HPV. With Hep B there is a risk that children can get it from other children. Not true with HPV.

http://www.who.int/features/qa/11/en/index.html

http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv.htm

[Witsec1]

And if you get Hep B as a child, from what I've read, the long term consequences (liver problems, etc) can be worse than if you get it later.

[tunamay]

Pertussis kills small babies by a meningitis that it causes. My own child was left compromised as an infant because of surgery she had as a newborn. You immunize not for yourself or for your family but for aultruism. You should want to protect the people out there who cannot be immunized or that have a weaken immune system. You immunize for herd immunity. Many anti vaxers are too young to remember their school principal with the shriveled up arm from polio. They do not remember all the deaf kids in school who caught german measles as a fetus. They do not remember the brother who had to be rushed to the hospital because he wouldn't wake up when he had measles. But, don't they know some old citizens who have had to return to a wheelchair from the polio they had as a child? It often comes back and causes problems again when you are aged. Don't they realize that Roald Dahl's daughter could have become another great writer had she lived and not died because she didn't get the measles vaccine in time? England was late in getting it to their citizens. Don't they know kids who have almost died from chicken pox MRSA infections? I have known 2 kids . One had to have extensive plastic surgery to cover a hole in her back. Don't they know people who have died from pneumonia? You do not die of H1N1 necessarily or the flu but strep pneumonia that sets in afterwards, sure can kill you. Just ask George Michaels who recently almost died of pneumonia. Many times it is what hits you in a weakened state that kills you. Finally, many times vaccines do not work, because of transportation issues and lack of proper temperature. It kills the vaccines if they are not refrigerated correctly.

HPV killed Farrah Fawcett and almost cost that famous chef in Chicagom Grant Achatz. his life. It can cause cancers throughout the body and you can catch it at birth during your trip down the birth canal. It can seed itself throughout your entire body when the doctors burn it out of your throat. I really have trouble with the anti vax crowd. Alaska leads the nation in anti vaxers followed by Colorado. Selfish people!

[keeperrox]

When we have children, they will get the Chicken Pox vaccine. My grandfather had shingles and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

[starfish]

I know some people might not want to get the Gardasil vaccine because they are in a low-risk group for exposure to HPV, but I think you have to consider factors that might be out of your control. An alarmingly large number/percentage of women are raped each year. If my child was sexually assaulted, I would not want contracting HPV to be a "bonus" of that experience. Further, what if my daughter goes to her wedding a virgin, but her husband is not? I would not want her to pay the price for the husband's premarital experiences with cervical cancer.

I have had some pretty interesting discussions with folks who think that having their child receive the Gardasil vaccine is somehow condoning wild sexy times. I don't see it that way at all.

[Renting with Raggles]

So llv is Gojira?

Yeah, I thought llv stank of the worst kind of libertarianism. I like how he characterised the indigenous New Word people as bringing it all on themselves. Don't call yourself a liberal, own up to your title.

Basically, he's so afraid of 'jabs' (it's not a fucking epi-pen, do some research!) and his own superhuman immunity immune system that would be compromised by a vaccine (Can you imagine what the disease would do to it? Vaccines are given under controlled conditions!) that he's cool with children dying/ having life-long health problems. He feels sorry for them of course, but not as sorry as he feels for himself when the science/ reality based people gang up on him. What's a little blindness/ paralysis compared with his hurt feewings? Irresponsibility is his right, dammit! Bet he wants to abolish speed limits, too.

[valsa]

I have had some pretty interesting discussions with folks who think that having their child receive the Gardasil vaccine is somehow condoning wild sexy times. I don't see it that way at all.

There are also people who think that teaching kids sex ed condones them going out and having sex. People are stupid sometimes.

[Rachel333]

I know some people might not want to get the Gardasil vaccine because they are in a low-risk group for exposure to HPV, but I think you have to consider factors that might be out of your control. An alarmingly large number/percentage of women are raped each year. If my child was sexually assaulted, I would not want contracting HPV to be a "bonus" of that experience. Further, what if my daughter goes to her wedding a virgin, but her husband is not? I would not want her to pay the price for the husband's premarital experiences with cervical cancer.

I have had some pretty interesting discussions with folks who think that having their child receive the Gardasil vaccine is somehow condoning wild sexy times. I don't see it that way at all.

Those are really good points, and I think the concern that you're somehow encouraging lots and lots of sex is the main reason behind people not wanting their children to get the vaccine. I don't really get that. Even if your daughter becomes a prostitute, wouldn't you still want her to not have HPV?

[gustava]

Doxycycline makes me really sick. It was so bad that I opted to just not take it any more. I did better when I took malarone, but I did get slightly nauseated and had the weird dreams. I think most people get the trippy dreams.

And yeah, I can't stand anti-vaxers.

I'm trying to decide if I should get the gardasil vaccination. I know it can have some bad side effects (but not mental retardation!), and isn't completely effective, but it still seems like a good idea.

Have taken anti-malarial stuff with no side effects. As someone who's had HPV, I would encourage serious consideration of gardisil, even though I know that it's been majorly pushed by the drug maker.

[samithemage]

Haven't taken Gardisil myself, simply because by the time I was sexually active, I had aged out of the vaccine. Does anyone know if it's ok to take once you are past the recommended age?

[Rachel333]

It's still somewhat effective even if you're past the recommended age and are already sexually active. I think even if you already have HPV it can protect you against the types you don't have.

[sassyNoz47]

I vaccinated my 3 older kids i LOL at the anti-vax movement. My youngest was born in 2003 her dr put her on a delayed scheduale on her 3rd b-day she hadn't had any of the 2yr old vaxes she was also above average we just had her tested at early childhood screening she averaged out at about 4yrs 5mos in all areas. On her 3 bday we saw a new pedi her old one had retired when he looked at her records he insisted she get caught up on vaxes, I was fine with it why shouldn't I of been.....I had no idea it meant 4 pokes and one oral. It was way more at once then my older kids had gotten. That night my daughter stopped speaking, stopped sleeping started screaming and hitting head. She didn't answer to her name she seemed lost totally out of it..she didn't play with her favorite dolls and doll house anymore. I even took her back to the toystore offered to buy her anything she just threw the doll she had wanted 2 days before and ran away.

We don't know what exactly happened we went to the dr many many times we had to change drs we had the early child screening done again this time she tested out at age 10 mos. I watched it happen..... we had to find a new dr looking for answers. Eventually we got a dx that she regressed into autism.... severe autism. It does happen WAS it the Vaccinations?? Idk but her new pediatrian looked at her records and refused to ever vaccinate her again period he says something was lying doorment in her system and in his words " the gun was loaded but the vaccines pulled the trigger" he did report her case to CDC she IS one of those kids who is in school without vaccines. But her dr said thats why there is the warnings its rare very but it can happen and she is protected because everyone else is vaccinated. I will add that she was tested last yr and she does have some auto immune disorders, which helped explain why she reacted the way she did and it supported the advice to not give futher vacines. I cry for what I lost for whatever reason .I want answers its all a great big WTF so I tell people to be educated never just say ok, there is a reason you sign all those papers just be aware. I also want to add there is no family history of autism or MR or dx serious mental disorders on either side of the family.

[Sola]

Haven't taken Gardisil myself, simply because by the time I was sexually active, I had aged out of the vaccine. Does anyone know if it's ok to take once you are past the recommended age?

It's fine. It is usually given to pre-teens/teens at that age as it is usually prior to sexual activity, obviously if you aren't sexually active, you wont be exposed to HPV. You can have the vaccine at any age.

To those who are unsure about it, it takes ONE sexual partner to pass on HPV.

[Alecto]

Just a heads up llv is a sock puppet of lilwriter85. Their other sock is autumnchild.

[Sola]

I'd like to shed some light onto the autism debacle.

In my professional (I'm a developmental/educational (dev psych who did further edu training) experience and in my personal experience (mother of 1 aspie, 1 auti, wife of 1 'somewhere' on the spectrum)), I have yet to see a child on the spectrum who doesn't have a relative somewhere on the spectrum or at the very least, who has well disguised traits.

I was there at the start of the autism scare. I was intrigued, I was concerned, but after a while (I was newly qualifed at the start) I knew and realised enough to know that there was no link between autism and vaccinations. I have never met (and I have met many, many families) a child on the spectrum who didn't have a relative (mother, father, grand parents, uncles, aunts and even cousins) who would at least have traits of ASD. They may not have a diagnosis, but they are Aspie, sometimes with good emulators, or at the very least, they have two of the three of the triad.

There is absolutely NO LINK with autism and vaccinations. Sometimes, and it is extremely rare, a child will have an adverse reaction to vaccines, this reaction will be severe (I'm not talking a fever, rash or even febrile convulsions) and will cause brain damage. These children may well then display autiscic type behaviours - this is actually fairly common among those with brain damage, it doesn't mean the child has autism, it just means if it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck... etc

But again, this is rare, I can't even begin to tell you how rare.

Parents want to blame something, heck who would blame them! I wanted to blame something too! My daughter was a preemie, I could have easily blamed that. But in truth she would have still be on the spectrum had she been full term, perhaps not as severe though.

Vaccines don't cause autism. They don't cause mental retardation either. The chances are that the kids who DO react badly to the vaccines and who have devastating reactions, would have reacted to the virii anyway and maybe they would have reacted a whole lot worse.

Any typos or riffles are due to me being on my 3rd glass of merlot...

Edit 2: OK, it makes no grammatical sense, I'll edit when sober :D

[dcmhejbl62]

I vaccinated my 3 older kids i LOL at the anti-vax movement. My youngest was born in 2003 her dr put her on a delayed scheduale on her 3rd b-day she hadn't had any of the 2yr old vaxes she was also above average we just had her tested at early childhood screening she averaged out at about 4yrs 5mos in all areas. On her 3 bday we saw a new pedi her old one had retired when he looked at her records he insisted she get caught up on vaxes, I was fine with it why shouldn't I of been.....I had no idea it meant 4 pokes and one oral. It was way more at once then my older kids had gotten. That night my daughter stopped speaking, stopped sleeping started screaming and hitting head. She didn't answer to her name she seemed lost totally out of it..she didn't play with her favorite dolls and doll house anymore. I even took her back to the toystore offered to buy her anything she just threw the doll she had wanted 2 days before and ran away.

We don't know what exactly happened we went to the dr many many times we had to change drs we had the early child screening done again this time she tested out at age 10 mos. I watched it happen..... we had to find a new dr looking for answers. Eventually we got a dx that she regressed into autism.... severe autism. It does happen WAS it the Vaccinations?? Idk but her new pediatrian looked at her records and refused to ever vaccinate her again period he says something was lying doorment in her system and in his words " the gun was loaded but the vaccines pulled the trigger" he did report her case to CDC she IS one of those kids who is in school without vaccines. But her dr said thats why there is the warnings its rare very but it can happen and she is protected because everyone else is vaccinated. I will add that she was tested last yr and she does have some auto immune disorders, which helped explain why she reacted the way she did and it supported the advice to not give futher vacines. I cry for what I lost for whatever reason .I want answers its all a great big WTF so I tell people to be educated never just say ok, there is a reason you sign all those papers just be aware. I also want to add there is no family history of autism or MR or dx serious mental disorders on either side of the family.

Sassy, I'm sorry for what you and your daughter have gone through, but glad you found a doctor who worked with you.

What is rare is doctors recognizing and attributing a reaction to a vaccine. When my son reacted, the ped we had at the time told us he was NOT reacting to the vaccine he'd had that day, so it was not reported. The ped we had next, after looking at his records, DID conclude he'd had a reaction, and advised us to modify his vaccines after that.

We did not have diagnoses in the family of ASD or anything either. We had auto-immune diseases, but at the time that was not considered a risk factor. Since then it was discovered we have a rare genetic disease that probably factored in, but again, no one knew at the time.

And THAT'S my beef with the vaccine program. We've got vaccines covering dozens of diseases now, including those that at one point or another were considered most serious. I would love to see development of new ones slowed down, and research conducted into screening methods, vaccine effects per specific disease population... anything to identify WHO might react and / or how to treat them.

If herd immunity is really important, then we need to find a way to make things safer for those who do not do well with the current vaccines (which might ultimately result in safer vaccines for all). Otherwise we are pitting the health of one population against that of another, and making value decisions as to who deserves protection, those who would suffer from a disease, or those who would suffer from the vaccine to prevent it.

It's just not right. As an advanced, intelligent society, we can do better than that.

[Sydney Fox]

I'd like to shed some light onto the autism debacle.

In my professional (I'm a developmental/educational (dev psych who did further edu training) experience and in my personal experience (mother of 1 aspie, 1 auti, wife of 1 'somewhere' on the spectrum)), I have yet to see a child on the spectrum who doesn't have a relative somewhere on the spectrum or at the very least, who has well disguised traits.

I was there at the start of the autism scare. I was intrigued, I was concerned, but after a while (I was newly qualifed at the start) I knew and realised enough to know that there was no link between autism and vaccinations. I have never met (and I have met many, many families) a child on the spectrum who didn't have a relative (mother, father, grand parents, uncles, aunts and even cousins) who would at least have traits of ASD. They may not have a diagnosis, but they are Aspie, sometimes with good emulators, or at the very least, they have two of the three of the triad.

There is absolutely NO LINK with autism and vaccinations. Sometimes, and it is extremely rare, a child will have an adverse reaction to vaccines, this reaction will be severe (I'm not talking a fever, rash or even febrile convulsions) and will cause brain damage. These children may well then display autiscic type behaviours - this is actually fairly common among those with brain damage, it doesn't mean the child has autism, it just means if it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck... etc

But again, this is rare, I can't even begin to tell you how rare.

Parents want to blame something, heck who would blame them! I wanted to blame something too! My daughter was a preemie, I could have easily blamed that. But in truth she would have still be on the spectrum had she been full term, perhaps not as severe though.

Vaccines don't cause autism. They don't cause mental retardation either. The chances are that the kids who DO react badly to the vaccines and who have devastating reactions, would have reacted to the virii anyway and maybe they would have reacted a whole lot worse.

Any typos or riffles are due to me being on my 3rd glass of merlot...

Edit 2: OK, it makes no grammatical sense, I'll edit when sober :D

Thank you Sola, you said it better than I could have. I just wanted to add that correlation =/= causation.

[Mommy22alyns]

etc etc blah blah. long response deleted so I'll sum it up: no jabs, never sick, vaccines ineffective for people in my family, darn good immune system. also an all natural organic nut who gets chills at the thought of using conventional personal hygiene products, eating conventionally grown produce, or using most medication. i have a colloidal silver generator in my closet and books about herbs on my shelf, (laughs) arguing with me is a lost cause, my friends. I will just continue my life being an unvaccinated scoundrel

Well, aren't you special. :roll:

*snerk* I know people like this. :roll:

[valsa]

If herd immunity is really important, then we need to find a way to make things safer for those who do not do well with the current vaccines (which might ultimately result in safer vaccines for all). Otherwise we are pitting the health of one population against that of another, and making value decisions as to who deserves protection, those who would suffer from a disease, or those who would suffer from the vaccine to prevent it.

Perhaps I'm not understanding what you're saying but it sounds like you think pro-vax people think everyone should be vaccinated. I don't know anybody who thinks that children who have bad had reactions from vaccinations should be vaccinated. Herd immunity protects those exact children.

[sassyNoz47]

I don't think the vaccines themself cause autism nor does the dr, but IN SOME RARE cases vaccines can cause a seziure or brain swelling which can leave a child then with autism or "appear" autistic. There is no test for autism no blood test or nothing kwim? When looking over her records we also discovered that my daughter was hospitalized 4 times in the first 3 yrs it was always following one of the staggered vaxes she got...we almost lost her twice to RSV she got RSV after getting the vax for it .....they kept saying thankgod she got the vaccine because it would of been worse. Actually we now know she shouldn't of ever got the vaccine but no one put it all together not even me her mother. Her pedi is very pro=vax My dd is the only kido in his practice not vaxed she is medically exempt for all vaccines CP, flu everything. It's possible its simply a filler used in the vaccines that caused the problem we just don't know. I also don't buy the whole Jenny M thing .. her story just makes all us parents of children WITH autism feel like failures because we can't cure our child like she insists can be done wth ever.

[Wolfie]

I don't think the vaccines themself cause autism nor does the dr, but IN SOME RARE cases vaccines can cause a seziure or brain swelling which can leave a child then with autism or "appear" autistic. There is no test for autism no blood test or nothing kwim? When looking over her records we also discovered that my daughter was hospitalized 4 times in the first 3 yrs it was always following one of the staggered vaxes she got...we almost lost her twice to RSV she got RSV after getting the vax for it .....they kept saying thankgod she got the vaccine because it would of been worse. Actually we now know she shouldn't of ever got the vaccine but no one put it all together not even me her mother. Her pedi is very pro=vax My dd is the only kido in his practice not vaxed she is medically exempt for all vaccines CP, flu everything. It's possible its simply a filler used in the vaccines that caused the problem we just don't know. I also don't buy the whole Jenny M thing .. her story just makes all us parents of children WITH autism feel like failures because we can't cure our child like she insists can be done wth ever.

If it is brain damage from a bad reaction to vaccines, it isn't autism. I hate to be this harsh, but if she was showing signs of having a bad reaction as severe as beating her head against the wall, refusing to sleep and talk after getting the immunizations, you should have taken her to the ER right away. They could have done an MRI and looked to see if they could counteract the reaction.

If she had occasionally been doing stuff like that before the immunizations, and that's why you ignored it, then I don't think that they caused anything.

4 shots and an oral vaccine isn't that much for our immune systems to deal with. I am sure that my immune system deals with more than that in a normal day (I am a teacher and travel between 3 schools). If she did have a really bad response and it was caused by vaccines and you are in the US, there is a fund that you should be able to apply to get some money to help with her treatments. It is held by the government, but funded by the companies that make the vaccines.

[gustava]

Perhaps I'm not understanding what you're saying but it sounds like you think pro-vax people think everyone should be vaccinated. I don't know anybody who thinks that children who have bad had reactions from vaccinations should be vaccinated. Herd immunity protects those exact children.

I don't think that's the points s/he's trying to make. It boils down to $$$$$. We have money for wars, but not for outliers such as dcm''s children. We have money for MRIs and other expensive tests, but not for dcm's children. We have $$$$ for the last 6 months of life, but not for dcm''s children. As a society, we've made choices, and those choices don't include the outliers: dcm''s children.

[sassyNoz47]

I DID rush her to the ER and we saw the dr many times within the first week(s) !! ER did think it was a reaction to the vax at first because that can happens but usually kids sleep alot not unable to sleep, everyone really thought it was something she would come out of but people who didn't really KNOW her didn't see how fast she regressed. If I wrote every single thing we did and every test it would be a 2 page long post. It took us 18 mos just to get her into a specialist to get a dx, its a horribly long process.. and nothing done is local finding a neurologist alone was a nightmare thankfully we found one 75 miles away. I didn't post this to start a debate because honestly I don't know if this would of happened had we NOT got the vaccines I just don't know. I am aware of the fund we didn't get a formal dx until late 08 and are still in what they call a process. I wish it was something we saw earlier and just ignored because if she would of been always behind or born this way it would of been easier I think. She has been tested for everything under the sun but I haven't given up I'm still looking for answers and praying we can find something ..... the way this all happened is unreal!