More anti-vaxers

[Austin]

This book was extremely helpful to me. I have always been pro-vax, but started to question vaccinations after I had my youngest last year. He is our only boy, and I had read that autism is more common in boys, as well as in children of older parents (Mr. Fox and I were in our 40s when our son was born). This caused me to worry about all the risks for autism that he was facing, and I didn't want to add to the risks if it could be helped. Dr. Offit's book helped me realize that if my son develops autism, it won't be because of vaccinations. I went ahead and had him vaccinated.

I appreciate how Dr. Offit cut through the vaccine=autism bullshit, and what a huge lie it was and how many of the people who propagated that lie knew it was a lie from the start. So many precious research dollars were wasted on disproving the lie and the bad science that was used to create the lie. He manages to explain the science behind everything to the layperson without seeming pedantic.

I also appreciated how Dr. Offit was willing to criticize vaccines and public health where there have been failures.

[StacyW]

Switching from childhood illnesses to Third World - I read a frightening story by a guy who took anti-malarial pills before traveling abroad and they gave him hallucinations. Can you imagine being in some undeveloped country with little medical resources, and having intermittent hallucinations? It seems that it's a not-very-uncommon side effect.

[Sydney Fox]

I appreciate how Dr. Offit cut through the vaccine=autism bullshit, and what a huge lie it was and how many of the people who propagated that lie knew it was a lie from the start. So many precious research dollars were wasted on disproving the lie and the bad science that was used to create the lie. He manages to explain the science behind everything to the layperson without seeming pedantic.

I also appreciated how Dr. Offit was willing to criticize vaccines and public health where there have been failures.

I agree. He didn't let public health off the hook for their mistakes, but showed where they had made changes to rectify them. He completely allayed my concerns about vaccination, and even had some choice words for Jenny McCarthy.

[Iamthatbean]

I'm an ABA therapist (when I'm not a SAHM) so the whole Jenny McCarthy movement REALLY got/gets under my skin. She screwed up a lot of families with her insistence about the vaccines and how she cured Evan and if everyone else does what she does, they can "cure" their children too. In at least one of her interviews (I think a People one) she said he still had a lot of issues with physical touch and affection and still engaged in stimming, so while she may have found ways to help him learn to function more appropriately, she did not "cure" him of autism. F

THIS.

I am SO sick of hearing about how I could cure my son if I did x, y, or z

[FloraDoraDolly]

I had H1N1 a few years ago. It knocked normally healthy me out. I was sick, sick, lay in bed and do nothing sick for a couple weeks, then I was worn out and not able to do much besides work for a few months afterwards. I don't think it was totally a big pharma panic. A couple of my students were hospitalized with H1N1.

I had it, too. It wasn't bad enough to require hospitalization, but I was sick for a month. It just didn't go away. I caught it from my younger cousins at Thanksgiving and a few days before Christmas I was still feeling so awful that I couldn't do much Christmas shopping. A 20-minute afternoon trip to CVS made me so tired that I had to take a nap afterward. Then after the H1N1 finally went away, I caught the worst stomach flu ever followed by a cold. By the end of that winter, I looked and felt like something from "The Night of the Living Dead."

[Eliowy]

Have to agree H1N1 is a killer. My mom wouldn't let us get the vaccines and my little brother and i were very very sick for a while last year. ick. Thank god she is ok with other vacinnes though...just not the Chickenpox (we went visit a friend who had it) or the HPV one though which stinks because its hard to get it now as a college student and i think it would probably be really good to get just in case.

[gustava]

I just received zostavax. For all you youngsters out there in FJ land, it's the shingles vaccine. I SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO do not want to get shingles.

Now back to anti-vaxers, whose children will now have to worry about getting shingles in their old age.

[valsa]

Now back to anti-vaxers, whose children will now have to worry about getting shingles in their old age.

While I think anti-vaxers are a bunch of idiots, last I read (granted, it was a year or two ago) there was no research on whether the chickenpox vaccine would prevent people from getting shingles. I think I read that they only thought it would reduce the severity of shingles if they did get them.

Also, as someone who got chicken pox twice as a child and came down with shingles at 10 years old, I envy you being old enough to get the shingles vaccine.

[Eliowy]

This. I am totally dreading shingles. It sucks epically my aunt had/has it. Reason i unlike my mother am vaxin my kids for chickenpox.

[gustava]

While I think anti-vaxers are a bunch of idiots, last I read (granted, it was a year or two ago) there was no research on whether the chickenpox vaccine would prevent people from getting shingles. I think I read that they only thought it would reduce the severity of shingles if they did get them.

Also, as someone who got chicken pox twice as a child and came down with shingles at 10 years old, I envy you being old enough to get the shingles vaccine.

Apparently, it reduces the odds of getting it, and if you do, it reduces the severity. Either way, I'm better off. Chicken pox and shingles both by age 10 truly sucks!

[llv]

Liberal anti-vaxer here. Jab-less. Never sick, save for flu every couple/few years.

*walks out of thread quietly*

[valsa]

So... you basically leeched off the immunity of others? Congrats.

Unfortunately, if everyone followed your lead, there would be no immunity to benefit from.

[jaelh]

Switching from childhood illnesses to Third World - I read a frightening story by a guy who took anti-malarial pills before traveling abroad and they gave him hallucinations. Can you imagine being in some undeveloped country with little medical resources, and having intermittent hallucinations? It seems that it's a not-very-uncommon side effect.

Malara tablets are pretty rough. tripped out dreams etc are a common side effect (ie: he would have been told about the possibility - about 25% of people get them to some degree) of certain strains, those with mefloquine i think. ?Other types available. Lots of seasoned travellers/workers prefer to stay off the tabs; load up on DEET and quinine and only start the meds if you get bitten etc.. esp as malaria tablets are (can be!) treatment as well as prophylactic.

et say: or is it doxy that' the problem? I think it's doxy that's really awful, and mefloquine is pretty good? Agh :) Just use the DEET :)

[Rachel333]

Doxycycline makes me really sick. It was so bad that I opted to just not take it any more. I did better when I took malarone, but I did get slightly nauseated and had the weird dreams. I think most people get the trippy dreams.

And yeah, I can't stand anti-vaxers.

I'm trying to decide if I should get the gardasil vaccination. I know it can have some bad side effects (but not mental retardation!), and isn't completely effective, but it still seems like a good idea.

[llv]

So... you basically leeched off the immunity of others? Congrats.

Unfortunately, if everyone followed your lead, there would be no immunity to benefit from.

You're totally right; in fact, my body can't produce antibodies at all unless I'm injected with an attenuated virus. ;)

And, to boot, if everyone were unvaccinated, nobody would have immunity to anything either! I mean, just forget genetics or the whole human viral and bacterial immune response altogether... We'd all die at birth! Heck, there'd be no humans living long enough to reproduce!

[Beeks]

You're totally right; in fact, my body can't produce antibodies at all unless I'm injected with an attenuated virus. ;)

And, to boot, if everyone were unvaccinated, nobody would have immunity to anything either! I mean, just forget genetics or the whole human viral and bacterial immune response altogether... We'd all die at birth! Heck, there'd be no humans living long enough to reproduce!

Uhhh...I'm generally pretty open to differences of opinion in this area (both sons on a delayed schedule and the first cannot get certain shots because of a bad egg allergy) but even I don't think you're coming across very intelligently.

Everyone WAS unvaccinated in the not-too-distant past. It wasn't pretty.

[llv]

Uhhh...I'm generally pretty open to differences of opinion in this area (both sons on a delayed schedule and the first cannot get certain shots because of a bad egg allergy) but even I don't think you're coming across very intelligently.

Everyone WAS unvaccinated in the not-too-distant past. It wasn't pretty.

The idea that there would be no immunity without vaccines is ridiculous. That is what I'm trying to say.

In the past, people also didn't understand how disease was spread - you should sterilise medical instruments, wash your hands, wear gloves when giving a birthing woman a cervical exam, and not cough on the food you're serving people. We've come a long way in the spread of disease too - not just jabs. ;)

[Wolfie]

Heck, there'd be no humans living long enough to reproduce!

Yeah, there were a lot less people who lived past childhood in the not so distant past. My great-great grandma was the only child in her family to live to adulthood, and they were a well off farming family. If they lived past childhood and made it through the illnesses, they had antibodies, but a lot didn't make it through those illnesses.

[pomology]

Doxycycline makes me really sick. It was so bad that I opted to just not take it any more. I did better when I took malarone, but I did get slightly nauseated and had the weird dreams. I think most people get the trippy dreams.

And yeah, I can't stand anti-vaxers.

I'm trying to decide if I should get the gardasil vaccination. I know it can have some bad side effects (but not mental retardation!), and isn't completely effective, but it still seems like a good idea.

My mother made me get gardisil when I was approximately 16-18 (I think there were three shots in all and I know I didn't get the last one until after I was 18, because I had to sign for it myself, but I don't remember when the first one was). Anyway, yeah, I'm glad I got it. But I do understand being worried about the side effects etc.

[Austin]

The idea that there would be no immunity without vaccines is ridiculous. That is what I'm trying to say.

In the past, people also didn't understand how disease was spread - you should sterilise medical instruments, wash your hands, wear gloves when giving a birthing woman a cervical exam, and not cough on the food you're serving people. We've come a long way in the spread of disease too - not just jabs. ;)

Don't you have any older relatives who lived through the terror of epidemics that could occur at any time? Do you think polio is a joke? Do you think it's easy to lose baby after baby to whooping cough, diptheria, or measles? My grandmother remembered all of those things happening (she was born in 1921) and it haunted her all of her life. My grandfather's mother died in the Spanish flu epidemic in 1918 (which killed 50 million or more people worldwide), leaving behind five children, one of whom was my 9-month old grandfather. He was subsequently raised in a Catholic orphanage. It was just grand.

These diseases decimated families. Maybe you could look beyond your own shortsighted view and be thankful that the majority of us are vaccinated and vaccinating our children so that you can remain somewhat protected.

[Alecto]

The idea that there would be no immunity without vaccines is ridiculous. That is what I'm trying to say.

Perhaps you should learn the difference between immunity and herd immunity - which is what controls the spread of diseases in a population. If you are unvaccinated, you ARE riding on the herd immunity of others - just like I am.

[pomology]

Yeah, there were a lot less people who lived past childhood in the not so distant past. My great-great grandma was the only child in her family to live to adulthood, and they were a well off farming family. If they lived past childhood and made it through the illnesses, they had antibodies, but a lot didn't make it through those illnesses.

QFT. There's a reason there are 7 billion on the now and there were under a billion only about 200 years ago.

[llv]

Perhaps you should learn the difference between immunity and herd immunity - which is what controls the spread of diseases in a population. If you are unvaccinated, you ARE riding on the herd immunity of others - just like I am.

I tend to think I'm not relying on the herd immunity of others, and merely relying on my personal immune system. Of course that's not totally true, as we are all affected by each other's immunity - natural or otherwise.

Don't you have any older relatives who lived through the terror of epidemics that could occur at any time? Do you think polio is a joke? Do you think it's easy to lose baby after baby to whooping cough, diptheria, or measles? My grandmother remembered all of those things happening (she was born in 1921) and it haunted her all of her life. My grandfather's mother died in the Spanish flu epidemic in 1918 (which killed 50 million or more people worldwide), leaving behind five children, one of whom was my 9-month old grandfather. He was subsequently raised in a Catholic orphanage. It was just grand.

These diseases decimated families. Maybe you could look beyond your own shortsighted view and be thankful that the majority of us are vaccinated and vaccinating our children so that you can remain somewhat protected.

All my older relatives are of the opinion that yep, you could get sick back then - the same way you can get sick today. I haven't heard any huge fear coming from them.

Maybe I have super immunity. I've done my family tree and nobody in the last few generations - child or otherwise - has died as a result of communicable disease. I think my great great grandma had a child that died shortly after birth, but I don't believe it was due to illness

etc etc blah blah. long response deleted so I'll sum it up: no jabs, never sick, vaccines ineffective for people in my family, darn good immune system. also an all natural organic nut who gets chills at the thought of using conventional personal hygiene products, eating conventionally grown produce, or using most medication. i have a colloidal silver generator in my closet and books about herbs on my shelf, (laughs) arguing with me is a lost cause, my friends. I will just continue my life being an unvaccinated scoundrel :D

[VVV]

etc etc blah blah. long response deleted so I'll sum it up: no jabs, never sick, vaccines ineffective for people in my family, darn good immune system. also an all natural organic nut who gets chills at the thought of using conventional personal hygiene products, eating conventionally grown produce, or using most medication. i have a colloidal silver generator in my closet and books about herbs on my shelf, (laughs) arguing with me is a lost cause, my friends. I will just continue my life being an unvaccinated scoundrel

Well, aren't you special. :roll:

[Maul the Koala]

I'm always fascinated by the non-vaxers. There was a mumps outbreak at several universities up here in Canada a while back. It was not pretty and some of the males who got it are unsure if they'll ever be able to have children. I've talked to people in the Romanian community and back in Communist Romania meningitis outbreaks were fairly common. One of the guys I went to school with had severe photophobia as a result. You know how fun that is? He and his brother spent over a year in hospital.

It's going to be interesting what happens if the vaccination rates go down and we see rebounds of these diseases. I wonder how many anti-vaxers will be changing their tune. Complications and death are very real with these diseases. Very few people I know that came down with meningitis didn't have complications. It was the same with the mumps outbreak.