The annual VF Father-Daughter Retreat

[CanadianHippie]

Ohmygod, does Dobson really say that?!? That seems like some kind of bizarre bastardization of Freudian developmental theory, that then got religicized? - I grew up with Focus on the Family radio blaring through my house, and altho I can't stand his ridiculous psycho-dribble, I never knew he was quite as bad as that. Yet another reason to hate him!

Not in so many words, but I did manage to wade through most of "bringing up boys" and he does at one point claim that if a boy is too attached to his mother past age 3, there is a good chance he will end up gay. It comes from the old "men are gay because of an overbearing mother and absent father" shtick. He is an absolute nutter. He also tells the story of a boy who wanted to be on a little league team but had no father, so his older sister tried to teach him to throw and catch with a pink baseball, as a result he was a complete failure (his moral of that story, to quote LaBarbra from Futurama "the boy needs a daddy!")

Basically Dobson hasn't done any research on LGTBQ issues since the late 60's early 70's, you know, before it was removed from the DSM. He still considers it a "gender identity disorder". The fact that gay men and women are more often than not very comfortable with their biological sex doesn't deter him.

(Yeah, I edited a few times, it's hard to shut up about this guys stupidity.)

[tabitha2]

This is the perpespective a certain Blogger I follow.

Girls, boys, and babies...

Someone asked me recently if I could explain the difference between raising boys and girls until they were around the age of 4 or so...

In my mind, there are three categories: girls, boys, and babies. The girls and babies are mine; the boys are Daddy's.

Boy babies and girl babies are snuggled the same way, fed the same way, rough-housed the same way, disciplined the same way, and loved in the same way. No one has to intentionally teach a boy to choose a ball or a truck or even to make the right noises that go along with each. No one has to make a girl play with a baby doll. Those attractions are God-given.

But then they pass that baby-stage and they are weaned and then potty-trained and the little boys' heart goes with Daddy and everything in Daddy's world.

...and so she dotes on her girls and newest baby boy ,maybe her 2 year old son is talked about,but never her 4 year old son.The two oldest boys only get pictures and mentions when it pertains to dad,hunting, cars and other manry stuff.I imagine this is the common scenario.

[SimplyMe]

I've tried to talk my husband into taking our daughters to this just so I can report back on it. :-) He won't go- go figure, he's not any fun at all!

[Vex]

Seven Reasons why you needn't go to the Father-Daughter retreat:

1. Build the bonds of a lifetime

Isn't this meant to be a day-by-day thing? I know my bond with my father - the bond of a lifetime, if you will - was built, you know, in a lifetime. I'm pretty sure the bonds of a lifetime are, like Rome, not built on a father-daughter retreat.

2. Memory making games

Three-legged races? Blindfolding your daughters? Do I really even need to say more here? You can creep them out in this manner for free at home.

3. Picnic lunches (for sharing family histories)

What if the fathers and daughters don't want to talk about their family history at the picnic? Will Dougie go from blanket to blanket checking up on them? Most people learn family history in fascinating little anecdotes. Leave it to VF to take something potentially interesting and fun and turn it into a rambling, patriocentric lecture over cucumber sandwiches. Speaking of cucumber sandwiches...

4. High Tea with Daddy

In the pictures, the fathers are wearing suits and uniforms. Suits and uniforms to high tea. Doug, let me tell you a little something about high fucking tea. High Tea might sound fancy, but 'high' is a reference to the time of day, not to how posh it is. It is NOT some exclusively upper class, ceremonial event. Yes, midddle and upper class families did and do have high tea. You know who else had high tea? Coal miners. Labourers. Servants. I'm sure they all wore their best suits for the occasion, though!

The shame of it is, this might be a really good teachable event at home school. You could learn recipes and maths making the food, you could learn history by learning about the history of high tea, you could even sew Victorian or Regency dresses for the occasion.

5. Inspirational messages to build generational love

Or, you could save money by brainwashing your daughters to be brood mares by listening to the VF collection on CD at home. You know it's the same damn material.

6. Surprise events to test and strengthen bonds

Like the shaving event where you see how quickly you can cut your father's throat from ear to ear and then how far you can run in a bid for freedom before a throng of your sisters grabs you and pulls you back to answer for your crimes? Actually, that doesn't sound so bad, but you can always do the deed at home - less witnesses and less money out of your pocket.

7. The famous butterfly garden

Well, I can't argue with this. There's only one way to see butterflies, after all!

*edited for shameful riffles

[Deleted07]

in scrolling down the forum I totally thought the title was "IVF Father-Daughter" lmao!!! ahem... thats what I get for scanning through topics quickly lol.

[CanadianHippie]

This is the perpespective a certain Blogger I follow.

...and so she dotes on her girls and newest baby boy ,maybe her 2 year old son is talked about,but never her 4 year old son.The two oldest boys only get pictures and mentions when it pertains to dad,hunting, cars and other manry stuff.I imagine this is the common scenario.

That blogger clearly hasn't had much experience with random kids out in the real world. There are plenty of boys who would choose a doll over a ball or truck, and plenty of girls (like I was) who would rather be playing with trucks, or balls over a doll.

[ceg045]

This nonsensical event comes around every year in VF-land. I'm astonished anyone would spend good money to attend.

Now, now. Can you really put a price on the ironclad control of your adolescent daughter's sexual organs?

[CanadianHippie]

Now, now. Can you really put a price on the ironclad control of your adolescent daughter's sexual organs?

$200-$300

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10259183

[ceg045]

$200-$300

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10259183

It was rhetorical. Rhetorical!!

;)

[BoomerLynn]

I think it is important for parents of both genders to take the time to bond individually with their children of both genders.

The rose petals and romantic music on that video squicked me out so much I had to close the page. Plus, my older daughter would hate something like that. Why does VF assume that all girls are girly types? My husband takes her every year to a crab feed (they are shellfish fans, I am not) and lets her gorge herself on treif deliciousness, that is the type of bonding she likes.

Yeah my bonding time with my dad involved learning how to change oil, check and change spark plugs, and occasionally replacing brake pads. Not so much with the frilly stuff. Also watching Star Trek NG. He also taught me the importance of thinking for myself. I was even allowed to gasp! disagree with him! Doug Phillps would have a heart attack.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

You can creep them out in this manner for free at home.

I just aspirated a bbq chip into my lungs. I should know not to read here and eat/drink by now!

I'm another who couldn't get through the entire video. It made me want to hurl.

[EllieCee]

I was a bit unsettled by the daughters shaving their dads' faces.

I don't think there is anything wrong about bonding with your father, but these events make is a bit...incest-y. The "romantic" music and the flower petals? The same things you'd see in a wedding video.

[MamaJunebug]

Not in so many words, but I did manage to wade through most of "bringing up boys" and he does at one point claim that if a boy is too attached to his mother past age 3, there is a good chance he will end up gay. It comes from the old "men are gay because of an overbearing mother and absent father" shtick. He is an absolute nutter. He also tells the story of a boy who wanted to be on a little league team but had no father, so his older sister tried to teach him to throw and catch with a pink baseball, as a result he was a complete failure (his moral of that story, to quote LaBarbra from Futurama "the boy needs a daddy!")

Basically Dobson hasn't done any research on LGTBQ issues since the late 60's early 70's, you know, before it was removed from the DSM. He still considers it a "gender identity disorder". The fact that gay men and women are more often than not very comfortable with their biological sex doesn't deter him.

(Yeah, I edited a few times, it's hard to shut up about this guys stupidity.)

Referencing the bolded, underlined, italicized wisdom [sic] from Dobson:

And now I'm not laughing, I'm angry as :angry-cussingblack: That's exactly the kind of claptrap that shoves fathers away from their toddler sons because "if I don't act manly enough, the kid will be a homo! I can't act like his mother, i can't be like his mother, am I manly enough? Shit, forget about it, I'll just go spend more hours at work/on the golf course and hope for the best!"

That's the kind of bull that leaves mothers with their sons - and daughters - tearing out their hair because they have no adult to talk with, no respite, adn they become screaming meemees who carp at their sons (and daughters) 'til the kid learns to sneak a drink to drown Mom out and eventually becomes a full-blown alcoholic!

yeah, I know somebody like that. I've heard a 60-year-old woman scream at her 40-year-old son like he was a useless bum (he isn't) and she was a crazy fishwife (she isn't). The same woman has reacted with shock and serious horror at my casual description of another woman who walks hand-in-hand with her 15-year-old son and is her 18-year-old son's chief confidante.

Neither teen is gay, but if one were, his mother AND his father would defend to the death the kids' right to be what he is. Both the younger parents have been fiercely dedicated to being involved in their boys' lives. I'm pretty certain neither one has touched a doobie past the first time of giving it a try. Why? Because they're young men with passions for music, mechanical challenges, politics and their parents.

Dobson needed to retire about 40 years before he did. What an idiotic cur. :angry-tappingfoot: And in so saying, I apologize to curs everywhere.

ETA to also applaud:

4. High Tea with Daddy

In the pictures, the fathers are wearing suits and uniforms. Suits and uniforms to high tea. Doug, let me tell you a little something about high fucking tea. High Tea might sound fancy, but 'high' is a reference to the time of day, not to how posh it is. It is NOT some exclusively upper class, ceremonial event. Yes, midddle and upper class families did and do have high tea. You know who else had high tea? Coal miners. Labourers. Servants. I'm sure they all wore their best suits for the occasion, though!

The shame of it is, this might be a really good teachable event at home school. You could learn recipes and maths making the food, you could learn history by learning about the history of high tea, you could even sew Victorian or Regency dresses for the occasion.

I may be wrong entirely, but somewhere in time I read that "high" tea was also so named because it was a mid-afternoon meal laid on the equivalent of a kitchen counter, or a worktable, where folks could nosh while standing if need be. Very informal. Doug Phillips:

[CanadianHippie]

It was rhetorical. Rhetorical!!

;)

Yeah but I have a reputation to keep. If it's on the internet, I can find one. Even a wrought iron chastity belt. :lol:

[onlyorganic]

7. The famous butterfly garden

Well, I can't argue with this. There's only one way to see butterflies, after all!

*edited for shameful riffles

Okay, I will give you this but $200-$300 for the retreat??? Does that include the hotel? My husband and I looked at bringing our family to the gardens to get married here and I don't remember it costing nearly that much when we priced it out. It includes tea and ham sandwiches in a basket and playing three-legged race with Dougie... and seeing butterflies. I don't see the *age 33 limit* I swear I saw before, otherwise this would be my last year to do this with my dad. I would *love* to have my dad drive up from FL just to see the look on his face when he saw the group assembled. We'd probably leave early and have a father-daughter wing n' tequila night at a nearby bar. For preserving and treasuring family history, of course...

ETA: HOLY COW it's $420 for dad and $205 per daughter! That would be $625 for my father and me! To drink tea and listen to the Botkins... whoopie!

[Witsec7]

My DDs 8th grade had a 'tea dance' where fathers escorted the daughters. It was before VF became a moving force in our town of less than 2k. Since there was decent sized component of hippy/crunchy families in the school district we banded together and did not accept the dictum of white dress. The girls dressed up in their best tie dyes and rose crowns and fairy wings. The Dads were suitably attired as wizards. For some reason it was the last year they hosted one :lol: Future events were held at a conservative church, that now hosts purity balls.

There is something soooo icky about this whole thing, makes the hair on the back of my head stand on end.

[DistantStar]

Some of my fondest memories of hanging with my dad involve us watching MST3K. I still watch Cave Dwellers every year on his birthday, because that's the episode that had me quite literally on the floor laughing so hard I couldn't breathe, and he wasn't far from being in the same state!

How they can take an innocent father-daughter relationship and take a left turn into Creepytown with it and have no idea how creepy it all is I have no idea.

[Vex]

So that's how much it costs! I'd been looking for the price but couldn't find it. Funny how they play coy about the cost on the website...

[DomWackTroll]

I kind of wonder how any of the VF faithful manage to afford an event like this. I picture someone like Perry Coughlan, who actually works for VF and has 8? 9? daughters stacked like cordwood. There'd be no way in hell.

Yeah, doesn't it ever annoy Perry and Kim that they have to watch all these A-Listers like the Morecrofts and the Bradricks traipse off to Europe on a regular basis, while they can't do jack shit on the wages Doug pays Perry? Same with Kelly Crawford, though I've always gotten the feeling that Kelly's hubby-- "good Christian man" or not-- just isn't that into VF. He just lets her do her thing for the sake of domestic peace.

[onlyorganic]

I wonder if like AKnight suggested, Dougie is just clueless when it comes to marketing or what the actual atmosphere of an event like this is. It seems so weird to be placing your daughter's "pristineness" on a pedestal and having an event to cherish the bond between daughter and her father as a protector. Most of those dads look like the only thing they could protect is a cheeseburger and a milkshake. Does it not come across to Dougie that a fancy tea seems very... ladylike, especially when coupling that with looking at the pretty butterflies? Certainly men on the Titanic weren't enjoying high tea and enjoying the beauty of colorful wings? The picnic lunch seems corny. It's just so over-the-top. It's like a garden party to celebrate a girl being under someone's dominion. And it makes me get all immature when I see some of these dudes and think back to when I was younger and how "my dad could beat up your dad".

[Renting with Raggles]

4. High Tea with Daddy

In the pictures, the fathers are wearing suits and uniforms. Suits and uniforms to high tea. Doug, let me tell you a little something about high fucking tea. High Tea might sound fancy, but 'high' is a reference to the time of day, not to how posh it is. It is NOT some exclusively upper class, ceremonial event. Yes, midddle and upper class families did and do have high tea. You know who else had high tea? Coal miners. Labourers. Servants. I'm sure they all wore their best suits for the occasion, though!

Absolutely right. The fancy formal teas of the upper classes were called afternoon teas to distinguish them from the high teas of the middle/ lower middle classes which were served after 5 o'clock. Having a dress-up meal with lots of expensive foods and intricate ritual in the middle of the afternoon (2.30 - 5 pm) showed that you didn't work a 9-5 job for a living like some little Dickensian clerk. Basically conspicuous consumption.

I think poor Dougie just wants to get in touch with his inner Algernon Moncrieff, though.

[Guest Anonymous]

Absolutely right. The fancy formal teas of the upper classes were called afternoon teas to distinguish them from the high teas of the middle/ lower middle classes which were served after 5 o'clock. Having a dress-up meal with lots of expensive foods and intricate ritual in the middle of the afternoon (2.30 - 5 pm) showed that you didn't work a 9-5 job for a living like some little Dickensian clerk. Basically conspicuous consumption.

I think poor Dougie just wants to get in touch with his inner Algernon Moncrieff, though.

That or his equally inner Sebastian Flyte.

[Renting with Raggles]

Sebastian was an ebil Catholic though!

A Brideshead dress-up party would give Dougie a chance to do a bit of pseudo-Oxbridge intellectual posturing. Can't imagine he would want the wee girlies along though - hey, it could be his next all-manly romp!

[Queen of Serpents]

Did anyone else laugh awkwardly at "Seven Reasons to Come" and hoped that was the only poor phrasing and but grew more and more horrified?

Me and my dad go to musicals, have a Lord of the Rings or The Godfather marathon, or just drink beer and eat greasy food. We've been doing that for years (well, not the beer until recently) and we have a blast.

Related if you're a Metalocalypse fan, the band members talk about their fathers

(NSFW, triggers, man drowning, reference to a murder, and language "I f**cking love my dad!!")