Women can't speak in church?

[alysee]

What religions practice the no speaking in church for women? I know that in my church we weren't to have any role in Mass but it's usually at the discretion of the priest.

[Guest Anonymous]

It's usually a rule in more fundamentalist churches..

[rockytop]

I was raised Church of Christ and we were not supposed to speak up during the services or serve any roles in them. Some quote from Paul, I think? Correct me if I'm wrong. CoC typically takes this one step further and doesn't allow women to teach sunday school classes to "men" of the church. This means any boy who has been baptised. So basically, women aren't allowed to teach any classes to children above the age of 11 or so.

[maybeizfundie]

Old Order Mennonites and Amish. The particular friends that I have, in their churches the women are almost entirely silent, with the exception of hymn singing.

Others take it as no teaching/preaching for women, but singing, praying, and giving testimony is allowed. I have attended River Brethren (anabaptist offshoot, very conservative) meetings, and as far as testimonies ("How God is working/has worked in my life" kind of thing), song suggestions, requests for prayer, sharing Scripture, the women were just as participatory as the men (and interestingly as well, this group also had two cry rooms set up, because the men were helping to care for the children during the service pretty much equally. They separate genders for services, so the men needed their own cry room if they needed to take a fussy or wiggly kid out).

[holierthanyou]

Quite a few IFB (independent fundamental baptist- the church of the Bates') churches forbid women from speaking at all during church. If they have a prayer request they can either tell their father/husband/patriarch of choice before the service so that he can say it on their behalf, or else they have to write it down and pass it to an usher for him to take up to the pastor to read.

It definitely works to reinforce the submissive and subservient role of women in those communities.

Amish and Old Order Mennonites are ok with women speaking in a church in general, it is just the leadership aspect that is forbidden (i.e. they can't give a sermon).

[Arielkay]

Yeah I was Church of Christ too and no they don't let women do anything - unless it's making green bean casserole or teaching the little children. No leading prayer, no passing communion, no leading songs - basically nothing up at the front of the auditorium. And yes, no teaching class if there's a male that's passed puberty there. It nauseates me. My dh is still in that church. The current one is more liberal than most (they have Sunday School which is forbidden at many CoCs - though I wish it was here since there are total morons in the Sunday School class), a kitchen, a food closet, etc. And there are nice people. But I just think it's sad that so many intelligent, well educated women think they can't speak in front of a male if it's in a church.

He still takes my girls, who still love the Bible class. But they are too much like me to last that much longer, I think. I also tell them about other faiths, Greek myths, the Feminist Movement, and why Mommy stopped going to that stupid church. So they know.

If you want to get an idea of how bad that church is, there's a support board for people that have gotten out of it called Ex-Church of Christ. The stories are pathetic. I was on the board for a while, but ironically the biggest posters ie controllers of the board are extremely conservative and try to run off every liberal and agnostic/atheist they can. They ran me off. I like it much better here.

I think males like it because it's one of the few places where men are told they're better than women by virtue of only having penises. And it's more mainstream than some of the ultra fundie churches - there are 3 in my small town, and dozens in the small city nearby. But they are fundie and they totally screw up their members. I was lucky and only married into it. Some of those people even on the exer board have left the church, but they're still sitting in the parking lot. It's sad, really.

[snarkbillie]

I grew up in a Baptist church that was affiliated with the SBC but was shockingly more conservative. Women were not allowed to teach "men" so we were not allowed to teach kids above like 11 or so unless it was a girls only class. Women were not allowed to serve communion, lead singing, baptize, speak in front of the church, be in charge of ministries, speak during service, etc.

We were allowed to speak to other women before/after service but not to men unless we were spoken to first and if our husband or father was there to observe the conversation. If we had a question in Sunday school or service we were supposed to wait and ask our husbands/fathers at home. Half the time my father did not know the answer and would not ask (he was a deacon) and so he made something up or told me not to worry about it.

I married a guy from Church of Christ but he went to a pretty liberal one where women could run women's ministries. I really enjoyed that. I ran a clothes closet for a while.

As we've grown older (we got married pretty young) we've figured out that a lot of this patriarchy stuff is bullshit. We've moved on to a more liberal Christian church where I can teach classes, baptize people, preach (if I felt led), run ministries, serve communion, be an elder, etc. I am fully equal. Well, as equal as one can be in this society. There's still a lot of sexism. There are men who will not work with me in ministry because they're "uncomfortable" being told anything by a woman. I'm fine with them bowing out. I don't want to be around that type anyway.

[Guest Anonymous]

It is common in Brethren/Evangelical churches in the UK.

[finleeport]

It is common in Brethren/Evangelical churches in the UK.

I thought the UK was more secular and less religious? Not that it is bad, its good. Less fundies in the world.

[synchroswimr]

From my understanding, some IFB churches are also that way. To nobody's surprise, the PP's church is that way - he forbids women to even exclaim in agreement with the sermon (shouting Amen!, for example).

[Guest Anonymous]

I thought the UK was more secular and less religious? Not that it is bad, its good. Less fundies in the world.

Yes, the Brethren/Evangelicals make up a minute proportion of the UK population... I was just unfortunate to make friends with the few, as a teenager. :cry:

[Effie]

In the Lutheran church (in my country) women can become priests.

[Sola]

It is common in Brethren/Evangelical churches in the UK.

Not in evangelical and brethren ones as a whole. It's common in Exclusive Brethren but in 'normal' Brethren churches, woman can speak. You have to remember EB churches are few and far between.

In evangelical churches, it varies. On the whole they are liberal and women can speak and indeed often are speakers. A few are conservative and wont allow it. But these are few and far between.

[Guest Anonymous]

Mine was open brethren which became 'Evangelical' maybe 40 years ago. In the area I live it is common (though not exclusive) for women to be prohibited from speaking. Many evangelical churches have started to allow women to have some roles in church services, but it is still common (though again, not exclusive) for them not to have the highest leadership positions.

[jenny_islander]

I was taught that it was a misread of a passage in one of St. Paul's letters. To sum up:

Man = probably educated at least a little.

Woman = expected to stay home, shut up, produce babies, and not read.

But in the new religion, men and women were expected to stay in the church together and listen to the sermon. The men could generally follow along, but many, probably most, of the women in the congregation weren't even literate. So Paul used a word that has been hijacked by misogynists ever since. He used one of several words that can be translated "head" to refer to men's relationship to women. This particular word also means "headwater," as in the source of a river. The point is that men are expected to help women catch up because this radical new religion presumes that the genders have equal religious status; women are not just appendages of men. Paul goes on to say that this should happen outside the regular church service. Church =/= class and women interrupting the sermon to request clarification just derails the preaching. Hence, women, don't speak up in church.

[SunnyAndrsn]

Wisconsin Synod Lutheran (WELS) does not allow women to become leaders in the church. Women can't be minsters and while they may sing/make music for the service, that's about it. They participate in the service as member of the congregation. No voting on church matters for the WELS women either.

[Sola]

Mine was open brethren which became 'Evangelical' maybe 40 years ago. In the area I live it is common (though not exclusive) for women to be prohibited from speaking. Many evangelical churches have started to allow women to have some roles in church services, but it is still common (though again, not exclusive) for them not to have the highest leadership positions.

I think we should point out though that Brethren and Evangelical are a minority, especially Brethren. We have an EB community in my town and a couple of evangelical churches of which one I know does prohibit women from speaking. If you took my town as a representative of the UK it would score highly for fundies and also highly for Muslims as we have a sizeable Asian community.

London also has an increasing number of evangelical churches, many of them with links to Nigerian evangelical Christianity. The UK as a whole though is really low down on the fundie scale.

[Guest Anonymous]

I think we should point out though that Brethren and Evangelical are a minority, especially Brethren

Oh yes, I agree completely and already said that: :)

Yes, the Brethren/Evangelicals make up a minute proportion of the UK population... I was just unfortunate to make friends with the few, as a teenager. :cry:

[Sola]

I thought the UK was more secular and less religious? Not that it is bad, its good. Less fundies in the world.

Officially we aren't secular at all! We don't have separation of church and state; the queen is the head of the Anglican church, prayers are said at the state opening of parliament, our state schools still hold collective worship. Though in reality even though we actually are a 'Christian' country, we are far more secular it seems than the USA.

[Sola]

Oh yes, I agree completely and already said that: :)

LOL! Didn't see that!

[Guest Anonymous]

Officially we aren't secular at all! We don't have separation of church and state; the queen is the head of the Anglican church, prayers are said at the state opening of parliament, our state schools still hold collective worship. Though in reality even though we actually are a 'Christian' country, we are far more secular it seems than the USA.

This is one of the most fascinating things for me, since joining FreeJinger. :P

[loveandwar]

I was taught that it was a misread of a passage in one of St. Paul's letters. To sum up:

Man = probably educated at least a little.

Woman = expected to stay home, shut up, produce babies, and not read.

But in the new religion, men and women were expected to stay in the church together and listen to the sermon. The men could generally follow along, but many, probably most, of the women in the congregation weren't even literate. So Paul used a word that has been hijacked by misogynists ever since. He used one of several words that can be translated "head" to refer to men's relationship to women. This particular word also means "headwater," as in the source of a river. The point is that men are expected to help women catch up because this radical new religion presumes that the genders have equal religious status; women are not just appendages of men. Paul goes on to say that this should happen outside the regular church service. Church =/= class and women interrupting the sermon to request clarification just derails the preaching. Hence, women, don't speak up in church.

I was taught something similar. If women can't speak in church, then my church is in trouble, since half the pastors on staff are female.... :whistle: