The Camdens and the Duggars

[freejoytoo]

Don't think it's shown here, but when I was on my gap year I came across this (horrific) TV programme called 7th Heaven. It was so bad, yet, like with 19 Kids and Counting, I somehow kept watching even though I knew it would be terrible. Until I researched more about the Duggars and similar fundies I thought the Camdens were pretty intense and ridiculously strict but they seem reasonable and sensible next to them. I still found some things they have in common:

 

Conservative Christians (though the Camdens are very liberal in comparison!)

Large family

Family throws a fit if one of them listens to 'bad music'

Both families are patronising do-gooders

Both fathers take a weird interest when their daughters start menstruating (I heard Jim-Bob takes the girls out for food, which I would have thought would have made more sense if it was Michelle and Mr Camden, whose name escapes me, gives the girl a meal and presents her with a feminine products at the end). Weird.

Both families are keen on staying 'pure'

Both families really idolise motherhood

Both families act like they know everything about everything when in reality neither of them have a fucking clue.

 

Can you think of anything else? As I said, whilst still being irritating, at least the Camdens don't believe birth control is evil and are fairly tolerant. Still wacky and annoying though!

[treemom]

I also saw the Camdens are more fundie-lite and way more tolerant and accepting than most of the fundie lits I know.

[BoomerLynn]

I actually watched that show for a bit (first few seasons). I never really thought about the comparisons but they are similar to the Duggars in some ways. However, the glaring difference (if this family was actually real) would be that the Camdens walked their talk. They frequently opened their home to kids without any place to go, even if they were "bad apples." I could never see the Duggars doing something like that. They wouldn't want their children to be negatively influenced.

Side note: I never got how the younges girl fit in that family. She looked biracial to me, but she was supposed to be the bio-daughter of the parents in the show.

[Lostie]

I actually was just saying in the the Worldly distractions forum that I love 7th Heaven. I've seen every episode and watched it religiously from the time I was 7/8-ish until it finally ended when I was in grade 10 (so, when I was 15). I introduced it to a friend of mine and once we hit high school we were separated by going to different schools and we would make sure we called each other every week so we could watch it 'together'. A lot of people really don't like it, but even now I still like it.

I can't really compare the Camdens to the Duggars though since the Camdens raised their daughters (& sons of course) with the expectation that they would be productive and educated members of society. All their kids went to *GASP* teh evil public skool and their youngest daughter Ruthie went to private school for awhile too. Not to mention the fact that the Camdens actually made it a priority to help others, unlike most of the fundies we follow.

As to your list I just have to ask when Eric took a strange interest in when his daughters started menstruating? It's been a while since I've watched any of it, but the only thing I can think of is the thing with Lucy freaking out about wanting to 'become a woman' (and then ending up being really embarrassed about it).

Now I really want to go watch some 7th Heaven since I own a couple seasons. Unfortunately exam studying must come first.

Edited because I was missing a word.

[kayray]

I forgot all about that show.

I used to find that show so irritating (and the acting so horrible) and would only watch for the :lol: 's on rare occasions when I was channel flipping.

I found the daughter (Lucy?) the most irritating of all. Especially when she got older and got married and had kids.

[freejoytoo]

It was the episode where Ruthie started and she said she didn't want a period party and her dad to give her a present of sanitary pads at the end or something. Then all her brothers and sisters congratulated her.

The Camdens are certainly not as extreme as the Duggars but I thought it was funny how they were similar in some ways (and how both pissed me off).

What annoyed me about the show was how the Camdens were presented as this fabulous Christian family who welcomed anyone and in my opinion, they just did it to make themselves look good. I hated how the dad was able to just magically solves anything (from self-harm to gang crime) and no one just told him to fuck off. It all just seemed ridiculously unrealistic and patronising. And how if your child listens to rap music you should stage an 'intervention'.

Both families were also freakily codependent, IMO. The Camdens may have gone to public school and had friends (who lasted about an episode) but I can clearly remember the oldest girl asking to practise kissing on her brother and Lucy's siblings listening outside her bedroom to see if she gave into premarital sex.

Seeing as Ruthie looked so different I reckon Mrs Camden had an affair!

The Lucy girl was the worst of the lot, especially when she started preaching about the joys of abstinence.

[desertvixen]

At least the Camden family was fictional - the Duggars are all too real.

[snarkbillie]

The difference between the Camdens and the Duggars is that they raised their kids to be educated. There were also a few episodes of "girl power" variety where they talked about how men and women should be thought equal. The mom cracked me up how she had a new "project" every pregnancy and was able to fix plumbing and electrical problems. When Lucy wanted to study other religions her dad gave her a lot of books about them and let her explore even though he was bothered by the idea of her converting. I felt that they came off pretty genuine, although I was a freaking kid when it was on so who knows.

I grew up in a very fundie household and I snuck around to watch TV. I remember thinking the mom on 7th Heaven was a role model to me. She was a "good Christian girl" who was self sufficient, smart, confident, etc. who didn't think twice about telling her husband that he was doing something that upset her.

I suppose your view would be different from which extreme you were raised in though.

[Avalondaughter]

I didn't watch the show very much, but I recall one of the girls had a Muslim friend. One of the boys married a Jewish woman (and they had a dual ceremony with both minister father and rabbi father officiating). They didn't hate all secular music. I watched one episode where Daddy Camden was playing the guitar and I think he was playing a Beatles song - or a 60s-era rock song of some sort.

[freejoytoo]

I didn't mean non-religious music, I meant music they deemed as immoral. There was an episode where Simon listened to rap and started acting like a gangster or something.

[snarkbillie]

I didn't mean non-religious music, I meant music they deemed as immoral. There was an episode where Simon listened to rap and started acting like a gangster or something.

Yeah, but he was demeaning women. I think the problem was his attitude towards women not that he was listening to "bad music". Although I think it was framed in a way that the music "made" him think treating women like "hoes and bitches" was okay.

[freejoytoo]

And that's why I found the show patronising! If you listened to 'that' kind of music or hung out with the 'wrong crowd' you would always end up imitating it and need helping. I know the families aren't that similar and I'd take the Camdens over the Duggars in a heartbeat but I still find them effing annoying. It just gave off this air of 'look at how great the Camdens are. Aren't they the perfect family?'

[snarkbillie]

And that's why I found the show patronising! If you listened to 'that' kind of music or hung out with the 'wrong crowd' you would always end up imitating it and need helping. I know the families aren't that similar and I'd take the Camdens over the Duggars in a heartbeat but I still find them effing annoying. It just gave off this air of 'look at how great the Camdens are. Aren't they the perfect family?'

True. It's pretty true with any show on television though. Even the most atrocious families come out as "better" than whoever is different than them.

[rachelsmith1989]

I don't know much about 7th heaven just because I couldn't stand the happy-go-lucky-fundie sing-songy intro. It's always made me nauseous, always did and always will...

[freejoytoo]

I have it in my head now...I've brought it on myself :P

I just didn't like the whole message of 'this is the BEST kind of family.' And how Eric could just solve anything. If he tried nosing in on my life I would have told them that I didn't need his help nor patronsing pity and slammed the door in his face.

[kayray]

I have it in my head now...I've brought it on myself :P

I just didn't like the whole message of 'this is the BEST kind of family.' And how Eric could just solve anything. If he tried nosing in on my life I would have told them that I didn't need his help nor patronsing pity and slammed the door in his face.

Yes, that is what irritated me about it.

[snarkbillie]

Yes, that is what irritated me about it.

Brady Bunch irritated me for the same reasons. Also just about any show containing a family from the 50's on up. I don't watch family shows anymore on account of it.

[CanadianHippie]

The Camdens may be fictional, but they seem more "realistic" than the Duggars. At least two of their kids had premarital sex, their oldest daughter got into trouble then went she graduated high school, ran off, got married, had twins, ran away, etc. I think one or two of their kids stopped believing as well.

Duggars on the other hand have perfectly obedient children who always do what is expected of them and unwilling to go against their parents.

[emmiedahl]

I think 7th Heaven at least provided a decent framework for fundie lite parents to deal with everyday problems in the world WITHOUT isolating their kids completely. It was a pretty realistic show in that the kids experimented and the parents helped them deal with it. I'm not a huge fan, because it is overly sappy and just not good TV. I am not horrified at it or anything.

[GeoBQn]

7th Heaven was my gateway to religious snark. I didn't start snarking on 19 Kids and Counting until 7th Heaven reruns weren't airing anymore. I find the Duggars worse, because at least the Camdens were fictional.

[chiccy]

OMG. Is it true that JimBob takes his daughters out for food when they start menstruating? Am I the only one who finds that incredibly nasty, creepy, and inappropriate??

I mean, why is it Jim Bob, and not Michelle? Is there some Gothard-related reason??

[CanadianHippie]

OMG. Is it true that JimBob takes his daughters out for food when they start menstruating? Am I the only one who finds that incredibly nasty, creepy, and inappropriate??

I mean, why is it Jim Bob, and not Michelle? Is there some Gothard-related reason??

If daddies don't date their daughters, the daughters will turn into harlots. Duh! :roll:

[chiccy]

If daddies don't date their daughters, the daughters will turn into harlots. Duh! :roll:

I'm all for daddy-daughter dates. But not to celebrate the onset of menstruation; that's just fucking weird.

[CanadianHippie]

I'm more of a "daddy hanging out with daughters"... Dating is what you do when you are in a romantic relationship.

[lilwriter85]

I actually watched that show for a bit (first few seasons). I never really thought about the comparisons but they are similar to the Duggars in some ways. However, the glaring difference (if this family was actually real) would be that the Camdens walked their talk. They frequently opened their home to kids without any place to go, even if they were "bad apples." I could never see the Duggars doing something like that. They wouldn't want their children to be negatively influenced.

Side note: I never got how the younges girl fit in that family. She looked biracial to me, but she was supposed to be the bio-daughter of the parents in the show.

I remember reading somewhere that the actress had a Native American parent. I agree she didn't fit in with the family.