J'chelle's "Holy shit, what did I get myself into?" moment

[bellicosebroad]

So okay, I confess: this woman with her baby voice and mullet and "God and JimBoob will take care of everything and I can just keep birthin' babies ... whee!" attitude both fascinates and repulses me. In her present state, she actually drives me quite bonkers (and I just think JimBlob is a totally self-absorbed ass, but that's another post). Part of the reason she drives me so mad is that at some point, I know she was a normal person. She was a kid who was a cheerleader and had a part time job and, I presume, normal hopes and dreams. Then she met JBoob (and by appearances, I don't know that JBoob was *ever* normal).

 

But. They didn't have kids for awhile after they got married, and it wasn't until after the first miscarriage that she became a baby-making machine. So at what point, exactly, did this woman take total leave of her senses? And did she ever have a moment when she thought, to whit, "Holy shit, what did I get myself into (and maybe, 'Is there a way out?')?" I think maybe the story she tells about being overwhelmed with laundry when the first (seven?) kids were still small was one... and then God sent the Magic Laundry Lady to help and all was well. Anyway, just musing.

[MamaJunebug]

Good questions.

My guess - and this is culled from the thoughts of others here, I don't really watch the show (I can't, I have a tender gag reflex ;) ) - is that Michelle lived it up as a pretty, slim, desirable teen. Then, before, during and after the birth of Josh, she allowed herself to be immersed into the fundamentalist ATI point of view which included a lot of hatred for women who aren't baby-makers.

Combine that with a miscarriage that was diagnosed as due to BC - and remember, she's hearing at least three times a week that BC is evil - her conscience [sic] "convicted" her. She was to atone for any wild oats she had sown, as well as her use of the evil BC, by allowing herself to conceive naturally.

When Magic Laundry Lady appeared, probably a new wave of adulation and admiration for Fertile Michelle came along. IIRC there were more than just one MLL around.

So she got addicted to being admired and doted upon, again, and having enjoyed her pregnancies and the first several weeks of being pampered with a bitty baby, let herself enjoy. As my NWArkansas friend said, Jimbob initially presented himself as a holy man, and the adulation for her as Mrs. Holyman made the decision to continue to indulge herself an easy decision indeed.

ETA that I agree with OP: This was not just Michelle morphing in a vacuum. The detestable JB was and is as culpable as M is.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I think, as I've said before, she agreed to birth them all. That's it. She stayed for the promised pay-off of riches. Well, she's pretty much got that if you don't mind traveling in a bus with 20 kids.....

I also wonder what she has on Jim-Bob that lets her get away with doing so little....of course I do think he sincerely adores her and may just put up with it. But all those years of thrift store maternity smocks are behind her. She can buy pretty much anything she wants if she wants to.

[MarsGirl]

It's weird cuz I've wondered this myself. After I've seen a recent episode in which they showed a picture of her as a teenager. I am wondering if she and JBoob were just normal Christians until that whole BC episode...

[Jessica]

On their old site they mentioned that they went to a "Christian medical doctor" for the miscarriage. I can only imagine what he said to them because then they went on to say "We were PRO-LIFE CHRISTIANS!!! We realized we were being selfish and had taken the life of our child". No, Michelle, it just happened.

[stabbycat]

Didn't she date someone else before JB that they have cited as one of the sins she had to atone for?

[Jessica]

She started dating JimBob when she was 15 and yet she had "a lot of baggage" from previous relationships. Okay, unless you're on the Maury show, what baggage are you going to have at 15?!

[Crackedeggs]

She was a cheerleader. Cheerleaders crave attention and feeling like they are better than everybody else. Now, why she settled for Jim Boob, not sure, maybe he was higher up the high school food chain than I think he was. She probably has an inner guilt bone that responded to his "holiness" as well. She goes on and on in the book about how she stole money at the pool when she was young, I get the feeling she doesn't forgive herself easily. So wow, she got to atone for her sins as a youth, AND she got to think she was better than everyone else! Two for the price of one!

[Crackedeggs]

She started dating JimBob when she was 15 and yet she had "a lot of baggage" from previous relationships. Okay, unless you're on the Maury show, what baggage are you going to have at 15?!

You can.. kids have sex before 15, kids fall in love before 15.. boys cheat on girls, beat them, hurt them, kids use drugs, people die in their families, there are abuse issues in families... some boys have mental issues, some gender identification issues that they start playing with with their girlfriends..... all before 15. And you don't have to be trash to experience this either. Between me and my daughter, we experienced all of the above before age 16 and a lot before 15. And we've never been on a talk show. Nor have we lived in a trailer.

[dairyfreelife]

You can.. kids have sex before 15, kids fall in love before 15.. boys cheat on girls, beat them, hurt them, kids use drugs, people die in their families, there are abuse issues in families... some boys have mental issues, some gender identification issues that they start playing with with their girlfriends..... all before 15. And you don't have to be trash to experience this either. Between me and my daughter, we experienced all of the above before age 16 and a lot before 15. And we've never been on a talk show. Nor have we lived in a trailer.

Most people don't have "baggage" or do all that stuff before 15. They can, yes, but most of the time, no. My guess is that Michelle probably kissed a boy before JimBob and that is considered baggage. With these people, it was most likely nothing as crazy as abuse or even sex that young. Michelle dated and most likely kissed the boys and she did not marry them and all that stuff is now considered evil and she likely (and sadly) believes she was sinning.

I disagree with the above poster who claims cheerleaders are attention starved. They can be, yes, but my sister was one and she was not attention obsessed at all. She just loved the sport.

[Crackedeggs]

I think you'll find a lot more kids have " baggage" than will tell you.

I should have phrased that bit about cheerleaders being attention starved differently. They might not be at the time they are cheering, but I think a fair number of them become so after the glory days are over.

[Kitten]

I believe that at some point, they said Michelle had boyfriend(s) before JB, which were the source of the "baggage." I'm guessing it was the typical early high school in conservative Arkansas stuff - French kissing, maybe a little feely-touchy - but not anything more than that. However, for JB, who probably never even had a girl look at him before Michelle, that was all he needed to be in total agony for the rest of his life. Poor boy, even though Michelle married HIM (at 17!!!) and has had 19 children with him, he'll always have to wonder, "Did BillyBob kiss better than I do? Was JohnBoy's thingie bigger than mine? DID RICKYBOBBY GET TO TOUCH HER NAKED BOOBIE???!!!!"

Baggage, indeed... :roll:

[NurseNell]

I believe that at some point, they said Michelle had boyfriend(s) before JB, which were the source of the "baggage." I'm guessing it was the typical early high school in conservative Arkansas stuff - French kissing, maybe a little feely-touchy - but not anything more than that. However, for JB, who probably never even had a girl look at him before Michelle, that was all he needed to be in total agony for the rest of his life. Poor boy, even though Michelle married HIM (at 17!!!) and has had 19 children with him, he'll always have to wonder, "Did BillyBob kiss better than I do? Was JohnBoy's thingie bigger than mine? DID RICKYBOBBY GET TO TOUCH HER NAKED BOOBIE???!!!!"

Baggage, indeed... :roll:

Isn't she from Ohio? How did they meet?

[Crackedeggs]

According to their book, a mutual friend of theirs introduced them. He got Jim Bob to go over there because he wanted to meet a cheerleader. Jim Bob decided this was the girl he would marry at first sight.

[VodouDoll]

Cheerleaders crave attention and feeling like they are better than everybody else.

I should have phrased that bit about cheerleaders being attention starved differently. They might not be at the time they are cheering, but I think a fair number of them become so after the glory days are over.

Ouch. You can't have known very many cheerleaders. I was a competitive cheerleader for six years in junior high and high school, and this was not my experience at all. We were athletes who loved the sport, no more high on ourselves or attention-craving than the members of the school's other sports teams. You might as well say that all golfers or soccer players only get into their sport because they think they're better than everyone else.

Re: Michelle, I agree with MamaJ. I think somewhere along the line she got addicted to the attention she got every time she became pregnant and had a baby, and then the TV show came along and amplified that attention a millionfold, and that was the ballgame.

[bellicosebroad]

Michelle dated and most likely kissed the boys and she did not marry them and all that stuff is now considered evil and she likely (and sadly) believes she was sinning.

However, for JB, who probably never even had a girl look at him before Michelle, that was all he needed to be in total agony for the rest of his life.

Anybody else think that JB can't have been a virgin at marriage? I mean, come on, 19 kids (and at least two miscarriages) even with a very fertile mom means they're having lots of sex, and I can't believe he just put that off entirely until "God" said "okay." I'm thinking he might be the one with the major guilt complex because Michelle wasn't his first, but it kind of got projected onto Michelle even though she'd just done a bit of fooling around. Plus the whole Gothardite "Shame on women and their wiles, and what they do to poor, weak, blameless men!" company line would have been very appealing to him, and would further have made Michelle a shamed target that he could then "forgive."

[Crackedeggs]

Just callin it like I saw and see it, regarding cheerleaders. And my daughter did it for a year,as well, so I'm slamming my own door. They were and are, from what I've seen - now not all of them, I'll give you that, were "mean girls" but most of the "mean girls" of my day and hers as well were at least at one time in their school lives, cheerleaders. Heck, she was like a mean girl in training the year she did it. However, she got glasses. That just ruined it for her the next year. She was so pissed off she went Emo. Now she's normalized to the center of things.

I will say that nowadays, it is a WHOLE lot more a sport than it was 30 years ago, and the girls who stick with it through senior year seem to calm down a LOT... I'm thinking the " mean girls" filter out as the work becomes too hard through their high school years these days, and if they stick with it, the work filters the mean girl right out of em.

[Mommy22alyns]

Good questions.

My guess - and this is culled from the thoughts of others here, I don't really watch the show (I can't, I have a tender gag reflex ;) ) - is that Michelle lived it up as a pretty, slim, desirable teen. Then, before, during and after the birth of Josh, she allowed herself to be immersed into the fundamentalist ATI point of view which included a lot of hatred for women who aren't baby-makers.

Combine that with a miscarriage that was diagnosed as due to BC - and remember, she's hearing at least three times a week that BC is evil - her conscience [sic] "convicted" her. She was to atone for any wild oats she had sown, as well as her use of the evil BC, by allowing herself to conceive naturally.

When Magic Laundry Lady appeared, probably a new wave of adulation and admiration for Fertile Michelle came along. IIRC there were more than just one MLL around.

So she got addicted to being admired and doted upon, again, and having enjoyed her pregnancies and the first several weeks of being pampered with a bitty baby, let herself enjoy. As my NWArkansas friend said, Jimbob initially presented himself as a holy man, and the adulation for her as Mrs. Holyman made the decision to continue to indulge herself an easy decision indeed.

ETA that I agree with OP: This was not just Michelle morphing in a vacuum. The detestable JB was and is as culpable as M is.

Oh, if Magic Laundry Ladies had never come around, what horrors could have been avoided!

[bananacat]

I don't think there was any specific turning point in Michelle's life. She seems like she always been easy to influence and has always craved attention. I think the first few pregnancies after Josh were out of fear that she would be infertile (one more lie that someone told her about miscarriage). During her breakdown, she had had enough kids to at least be satisfied that shouldn't fear infertility, but that's when the guilt took over and kept her going. Pretty soon after that, it was the attention she was getting. Even before she hit the tv scene, she was apparently well-known in her little community. And as her fame grew, she continued having more and more babies for the attention. If there was a point where she wanted to stop, she wouldn't even know what else to do with herself. When your entire life and entire identity revolve around having babies, what else are you gonna do besides have more babies? And now she's basically being forced into retirement, and she has no identity anymore.

[NurseNell]

This is what Wikipedia says:

Jim Bob and Michelle met in the early 1980s when Jim Bob, along with another church member, were sent for a follow-up visit after Michelle had experienced a religious conversion.[6] Jim Bob and Michelle were married on July 21, 1984.

[Kitten]

1. I think JB was a virgin at marriage. Too much of a dork. But I also think Michelle was, too, just because she was 17. But based on the "baggage" comments, and the comments that they went "too far" before the marriage, I suspect they knew where 3rd base was and how the Legos were supposed to fit together. :lol:

2. I think Michelle is addicted to the attention of pregnancy. I once thought that if I didn't have to have the babies, I would gladly be 7-8 months pregnant again and again, because it was easy for me, I felt great after the first few weeks, and you do gets lots of attention and special treatment. It's like a get-out-of-jail free card - "Please, can I cut to the front of the line for a bathroom stall? I've just GOT to go!" "Would you mind getting out and filling the gas tank for me? I'm not supposed to be exposed to gas fumes, and besides, it's sleeting and 25 degrees out there." :D:

Michelle's problem was that she kept having actual babies that required actual care, and most people only coo over new babies and their moms for about 3 months. She was overwhelmed by them, but like any true addict, just couldn't give up the attention, so she kept going back for another hit from the pregnancy bong. Plus she was REWARDED and ENABLED, first psychologically by her religion and then financially by TLC, for doing exactly what she shouldn't have - having more children than she could handle, physically and emotionally. She might actually have enjoyed the first 3 or 4, but if she did, she just shut off the maternal feelings after that, because it was too much.

[Jezebel]

I will say that nowadays, [cheerleading] is a WHOLE lot more a sport than it was 30 years ago,...

Yeah, it really is. I'm less than a year younger than Michelle, and cheerleading at the two (huge, suburban) high schools I attended was nowhere near as physically demanding and competitive as it is now.

As for the cheerleaders themselves, most were pretty nice, especially the ones who stuck with it the longest. Being a cheerleader demands teamwork, cooperation, and a commitment to showing up for practice and games even when it cuts into the rest of your social and academic life--so being a prima donna/Mean Girl just doesn't work out. Either you grow up, quit, or get kicked off the squad. The bitchiest ones I remember by far were Sophomore cheerleaders. So I don't think it's a coincidence that nearly all the nasty, attention-whoring ex-cheerleaders I've ever met dropped off/were kicked off the squad before their Senior year.

[MamaJunebug]

1. I think JB was a virgin at marriage. Too much of a dork. But I also think Michelle was, too, just because she was 17. But based on the "baggage" comments, and the comments that they went "too far" before the marriage, I suspect they knew where 3rd base was and how the Legos were supposed to fit together. :lol:

2. I think Michelle is addicted to the attention of pregnancy. I once thought that if I didn't have to have the babies, I would gladly be 7-8 months pregnant again and again, because it was easy for me, I felt great after the first few weeks, and you do gets lots of attention and special treatment. It's like a get-out-of-jail free card - "Please, can I cut to the front of the line for a bathroom stall? I've just GOT to go!" "Would you mind getting out and filling the gas tank for me? I'm not supposed to be exposed to gas fumes, and besides, it's sleeting and 25 degrees out there." :D:

Michelle's problem was that she kept having actual babies that required actual care, and most people only coo over new babies and their moms for about 3 months. She was overwhelmed by them, but like any true addict, just couldn't give up the attention, so she kept going back for another hit from the pregnancy bong. Plus she was REWARDED and ENABLED, first psychologically by her religion and then financially by TLC, for doing exactly what she shouldn't have - having more children than she could handle, physically and emotionally. She might actually have enjoyed the first 3 or 4, but if she did, she just shut off the maternal feelings after that, because it was too much.

Wow, this! It's what so many have long suspected! :clap:

[chiccy]

I don't think there was any specific turning point in Michelle's life. She seems like she always been easy to influence and has always craved attention. I think the first few pregnancies after Josh were out of fear that she would be infertile (one more lie that someone told her about miscarriage). During her breakdown, she had had enough kids to at least be satisfied that shouldn't fear infertility, but that's when the guilt took over and kept her going. Pretty soon after that, it was the attention she was getting. Even before she hit the tv scene, she was apparently well-known in her little community. And as her fame grew, she continued having more and more babies for the attention. If there was a point where she wanted to stop, she wouldn't even know what else to do with herself. When your entire life and entire identity revolve around having babies, what else are you gonna do besides have more babies? And now she's basically being forced into retirement, and she has no identity anymore.

I totally agree with this post.

Re: the discussions on where Jim Bob and Michelle met, and whether they were virgins...Michelle says in one episode that she worked at Jim Bob's parents' yogurt shop, and they met through that. M & Jim Bob have also said on TV that they saved "themselves" (i.e. sex) for each other on their wedding night. Could be a lie, but I believe it.

I think Michelle's "baggage" was having kissed other boys. Maybe there were hands up the shirt, too, but I doubt any more than that.

I don't think she ever had, or ever will have, a "what have I gotten myself into" moment. I think she loves her life, and doesn't give a crap about what effect it is having on other people.

[bellicosebroad]

I don't think she ever had, or ever will have, a "what have I gotten myself into" moment. I think she loves her life, and doesn't give a crap about what effect it is having on other people.

I wasn't talking about now, though. Sure, hell, yeah, she loves her life now. She doesn't have to do anything because she's got the J'slaves well trained and can just bask in her TLC glory besides. I was talking about the earlier years, when A) she gave up all of who she was as a normal person to marry a fundy nutcase (and I'm sure she didn't know what that meant at 17) and B) when she (as anyone would be) would have been overwhelmed taking care of five, six seven small children with no help other than the occasional Magic Laundry Lady (with the older J'slaves still too small to be much help). It might be mostly peaches and roses in the remembering (or at least very glossed over "hard times"), but I bet it was hell at the time.