Messianic "Jewish"-leaning Fundie families

[chiccy]

So url=http://jennysjabber.blogspotDOTcom <--here's a family of Messianic "Jews" I used to stalk. (url=http://femininityinafeministworld.blogspotDOTcom <--Here's the always-interesting blog of the oldest daughter, Serenity.) To my great chagrin, both Mother and Daughter stopped updating in 2010. Still, it is interesting stuff, which I hope FJ'ers will check out.

 

As a born Jew myself (brought up Christian by my father, but basically just "spiritual" now), I am perversely intrigued by the strain of Judaism embraced by some of these Evangelical families. I think it comes down to their terribly poor understanding of theology, which stems from their notion that all you need are a family patriarch and a Bible in order to have a church. I think they just pull random lines from Scripture and figure that if it's in the Bible, it applies to them--because, hey!, it's the Bible! Hence, their bizarre embracing of random aspects of Old Testament dogma.

 

Some of them do it just here and there, where it suits them, like the Duggars and Gothardites with their no-pork and no-sex-after-periods rule, and select celebration of Jewish holidays. Then you have some families, like the one I linked above, who just do it willy-nilly and think it makes them real Jews. (All the while they believe in "Yeshua"/Jesus and have no Jewish lineage, of course.) If these people knew how Orthodox Jews actually live, how many rules, observances, and traditions are mandated in actual practice, perhaps they'd see how wildly out-of-touch they really are. But, of course, these people are blind. So they continue to believe that their pick-a-line-from-the-Bible-and-roll-with-it school of theology is legit. *Sigh*...Thoughts?

[emmiedahl]

I know this family in real life, so I cannot say much. But I will say: the father is legit Jewish, born and raised, as far as I know. He dabbled in Christianity and ended up marrying a Christian woman who was interested in Messianic Judaism. They are really nice people, but snark away.

[finleeport]

Isn't it insulting to the Jewish community when people call themselves Messianic Jews? if they accept Jesus as their messiah, why call themselves Jews since being Jewish is a follower of Judaism?

Well I know you don't have to be religious in order to be Jewish, its just most of the time it confuses me. I apologize.

[emmiedahl]

I consider it offensive, yes.

It's an odd situation with this family. It is a blended family, and one of the parents is really Jewish. So they are not totally faking. The mom cannot convert because of the Jesus thing, but they live (for the most part) like Orthodox.

[finleeport]

I consider it offensive, yes.

It's an odd situation with this family. It is a blended family, and one of the parents is really Jewish. So they are not totally faking. The mom cannot convert because of the Jesus thing, but they live (for the most part) like Orthodox.

Take Ray Comfort for example, he is Jewish but uses it whenever it suits him. Does he really think that one can be Jewish and Christian at the same time?

from what I watched when he and Jerk-Kirk were debating the rational response team, he did seem insensitive when asked about if the Jews who died in the Holocaust are going to hell while Hitler is in heaven.

[Peas n carrots]

Are these the same people as Jews For Jesus?

[chiccy]

they live, for the most part, like Orthodox

As someone with some familiarity with Orthodox Jews and their lifestyles, I have to disagree. The mom doesn't cover her hair; the daughters don't cover their elbows; and they routinely take pictures and put up blog posts on Shabbat. It takes years and years of Jewish study to learn the intricacies of Orthodox life, and even most born Jews these days don't know even a tiny fraction of it. Additionally, I don't see how they could live as Orthodox Jews because they probably couldn't be admitted to mikva'ot, which are where a woman has to bathe every month, and where you have to clean all pots and pans that you use. (They could these things in an ocean, but I don't know--do they live near an ocean?)

Interesting that the dad is legitimately Jewish, though...

[emmiedahl]

Yeah, I did not think about the hair covering issue.

I don't know for a fact that the dad is legit Jewish. It is what I was told, but... you know.

[Buzzard]

I see that youre new here... can you break the link? Especially if this is a family Emmie knows we dont need them tracking back and shitting on the rug. ;)

[chiccy]

I see that youre new here... can you break the link? Especially if this is a family Emmie knows we dont need them tracking back and shitting on the rug.

I am indeed a newbie...sorry not to have broken it. Actually, I don't know if I know what you mean by "break the link." But let me try something...please LMK if it's right.

[Buzzard]

That will work. Traditionally we use DOT at the . before .com so people can easily find the outlyer on an ipad. It just keeps people from being able to see that FJ led them to their blog so they dont come back and whine that we persecuted them.

[chiccy]

I have to say, one of the things I find most disturbing about this particular family is that their nicknames for the family's daughters are "MIT 1, 2, 3" etc. Alas, no, they're not talking about the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (an institution I'm sure these people have never heard of). MIT stands for "Mom in Training."

[Soldier of the One]

As for the Jews for Jesus question:

No, there is a difference between Messianics (as I like to call them, because they are not 'Jews') and J4J. J4J is basically a mainstream Evangelical organization. They specifically target Jews for conversion for theological reasons but their converts-to-Christianity tend to go to regular Evangelical churches.

Messianics, however, embrace (some variant of) Christian theology while at the same time claiming a Jewish identity/practice. They will incorporate Judaic aspects into their faith, like (some semblance of) the dietary laws or the festivals.

Hope this helps :) Please anyone correct me if I am wrong.

[chiccy]

As for the Jews for Jesus question:

Messianics, however, embrace (some variant of) Christian theology while at the same time claiming a Jewish identity/practice. They will incorporate Judaic aspects into their faith, like (some semblance of) the dietary laws or the festivals.

I think what bothers me the most about Messianic Fundie families (including this one) is that they seem to think they really are Jewish. I also think they are pretty convinced that their practice of Judaism is as good as the Orthodox, if not better. I could have (maybe) been convinced of that until I spent some time with real Orthodox families, and the differences between them and these clowns (in lifestyle, Jewish knowledge, level of commitment/observance etc.) are so great and so pervasive that it's hard to see any similarity anymore. I think these Messianics are just fucking clueless.

[FaustianSlip]

I'm sure that, like Lina et al, they think that they're totes living an Orthodox lifestyle. They're not, for a variety of practical and theological reasons, but that's what they tell themselves. The thing is, I hope their kids are aware that if they were to try and integrate into an actual Orthodox community, not only would they face major issues because of the Jesus stuff, but no one would consider them Jewish anyway, because their mom isn't Jewish (I'm thinking here of the older kids, primarily- you don't have to bring that stuff up with little kids, obviously).

And while the interfaith family aspect is interesting to me, I would say that at this point, judging by the blog posts, the family is really interfaith in name only. I'm assuming that dad has totally bought in on the messianic stuff; if your kids are having conversations about bowing down to Jesus and such, I think it's probably reasonable to say that the education you're giving them is not a Jewish one. This isn't like a family that has, say, one Jewish parent and one Catholic, and they're celebrating both sets of traditions and letting the kids choose. They're dressing Christianity up in Jewish clothes and pretending it's authentic Judaism, and whether the dad's Jewish or not, that's just not the case, IMHO. I hope that their children are growing up with an understanding that their family's practices aren't going to be considered mainstream Judaism by the vast majority of Jews, or they could be in for some real heartache when they're older.

[emmiedahl]

I would imagine that most Messianic Jewscertainly know they are not mainstream Orthodox Jews and simply think they are doing it better.

[chiccy]

I would imagine that most Messianic Jewscertainly know they are not mainstream Orthodox Jews and simply think they are doing it better.

I wonder if they are aware of how much of it (orthodox observance) they fail to keep/have never even heard of. Only a small part of it is written in the Bible; so much depends on other texts, such as the Talmud, the Mishneh Torah, the Shulchan Aruch and the rabbinical parshanim. I wonder if the Messianic "Jews" have even heard of these.

[GeoBQn]

If anything, they are more like Karaites. They emphasize the Bible so much, but seem to look down on Rabbinical Judaism, like that homeschool lesson I read where they suggested going to a Jewish holiday celebration and asking the participants how their observance "differs" from what's in the Bible.