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Update on Michelle


Mars

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I think I read in one article that since Jill is studying to be a midwife she had used a doppler to listen to the heartbeat as recently as the 25th of Nov and had heard a heartbeat.

I don't think they meant that Jill was monitoring her or providing her care or anything. I think that like a lot of ladies I know, they have one of those hand held dopplers and would listen to the baby's heartbeat occasionally. I know several women that have one b/c it gives them peace of mind to be able to listen to the baby and their other children enjoy listening to it as well.

I'm also speculating that Michelle just wants to avoid more surgery if possible and would prefer to just allow it to happen naturally if at all possible. Just speculation though :) :)

From what I remember, the heartbeat of a fetus is much faster than that of an adult. Does this only become noticeable after a certain number of weeks? I would think it would be difficult to mistake the mother's heartbeat with that of the fetus when the two are beating at such different rates.

Again, WHERE IS DOCSHARON WHEN WE NEED HER?

WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN US, DOCSHARON! :)

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I think I read in one article that since Jill is studying to be a midwife she had used a doppler to listen to the heartbeat as recently as the 25th of Nov and had heard a heartbeat.

FWIW, Jill is working with a doula (and I don't think they can be licensed in AR), and is not "studying" anything but CLEP prep tests. She was taped on YouTube at a book signing a few weeks ago saying she was *still* "thinking" about becoming a nurse and confirmed the doula angle. She is likely working with the Fedosky woman who delivered Anna (both times, I believe), whose husband is a doctor of some sort, so she MIGHT have detected a heartbeat, but who knows?

And if Michelle had the device at home rather than having to schlep to a doctor every two weeks or so with her laundry list of risks, why wasn't Jill checking it weekly, especially if Michelle complained of flu symptoms a week later?

*confused*

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So what's the exact difference between a midwife and a doula?

I thought the doula's purpose was to keep the laboring woman as comfortable as possible, offering ways to ease pain. Some may even stay on after the birth to help around the house so that the new mom can have more time with the baby. A midwife actually delivers the baby.

That's all I got.

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Yeah, a doula isn't for anything medical, they're there for support in labour, to advocate and talk with the medical team (for instance, if they want to try an intervention that the doula discussed with the mother and knew she wouldn't want, but she's not in a position to express that), to help with meditation and the like.

A midwife usually refers to a person with a set level of qualifications (in Australia, I believe anyone referred to as a midwife would be an RN with added midwifery training, they study nursing and midwifery and have to follow rulez and the like), whereas the term 'doula' doesn't refer to any qualifications or standards. As such I assume some doulas DO do a bit of medical stuff, and give advice before the birth, even though those both seem to be things outside of the job description IMO.

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Which kind of shows that her doctor was talking complete and utter bullshit when he said her uterus was in good condition after she had Josie.

I'm a regular watcher of the Duggar show (don't look at me like that) and I don't recall ever seeing an actual doctor say this. This is probably more Duggar bullshit.

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A normal fetal heartbeat is 140-160 beats per minute. A human heartbeat is usually 60-90. Sometimes, the maternal heartbeat tachs upto 100 when they are anxious.

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Re: Jill listening to the heartbeat - I had to go in for a trace in my second pregnancy because the baby hadn't moved in a while (she was fine, BTW). The doctors were concerned because the hearbeat they picked up was slow, but the midwife was experienced enough to realise it was mine.

A fetus' heartbeat is much faster than an adults, but if, say, Michelle's was fast (anxiety/or even fever could cause this), and the fetus' was slow due to it being in trouble - it's not impossible the two could have been confused with each other by someone inexperienced. All Jill would have heard was one fast, one slow and everything would have seemed fine. I'm no expert but I could see that happening.

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What is her risk of needing a hysterectomy if she can't miscarry naturally? A D&E can't be very safe if her uterus is too fragile for a D&C.

And this is why I still predict this ends in J'chelle's death. She will never permit them to take her baby basket, so she'll go into labor and bleed out.

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What is her risk of needing a hysterectomy if she can't miscarry naturally? A D&E can't be very safe if her uterus is too fragile for a D&C.

I've been wondering about this too.

And this is why I still predict this ends in J'chelle's death. She will never permit them to take her baby basket, so she'll go into labor and bleed out.

Agreed. Only death or menopause will stop her trying to conceive.

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Which kind of shows that her doctor was talking complete and utter bullshit when he said her uterus was in good condition after she had Josie.

Yeah there is NO way her uterus is as good as they claim... But I wonder if they are seeing a fundie doctor? I remember with Anna's last pregnancy they were going to a different place for her ultra-sounds etc? stating that they were 'friends' and Not going to good ole Dr. Sarver, who probably dared to tell Michelle to wake upto herself and not have any pregnancies!

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I wonder if they break the J streak here. From:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2011 ... anced-age/

Duggar said that she and her husband will name the child before a burial service.

Kind of hard to rattle off a list of J names for the lead in to the show and get to J'fetus who is "with jesus"... This could be an interesting point of contention with TLC is they insist on naming J'20 in the credits...

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I wonder if they break the J streak here. From:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2011 ... anced-age/

Kind of hard to rattle off a list of J names for the lead in to the show and get to J'fetus who is "with jesus"... This could be an interesting point of contention with TLC is they insist on naming J'20 in the credits...

They don't name check the one who was MURDERED BY TEH EBIL PILL...

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Yeah there is NO way her uterus is as good as they claim... But I wonder if they are seeing a fundie doctor? I remember with Anna's last pregnancy they were going to a different place for her ultra-sounds etc? stating that they were 'friends' and Not going to good ole Dr. Sarver, who probably dared to tell Michelle to wake upto herself and not have any pregnancies!

The place that J&A went for their ultrasound was just a retail ultrasound place. Generally they are places that you can go and pay for additional ultrasounds of your baby, where they have advanced 4D scans that give really good detailed shots. I think some of them may operate with medical consultations, but they do elective ultrasounds too. I don't think it had anything to do with where Anna was actually receiving her prenatal care.

I know in the earlier specials Dr. Sarver seemed pretty optimistic about Michelle's chances to continue with more pregnancies, but that was before Josie. We haven't seen her appear on the show since Michelle and Anna went to their mutual OB appointments. I'm kind of surprised that she was ever willing to appear on the show, but in the interest of her future practice and liabilities, she'd probably be well-served to run in the opposite direction.

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They don't name check the one who was MURDERED BY TEH EBIL PILL...

But then again, that one came and went before they became the famous fame-whores they are now. They should be more respectful. After all, it was the miscarriage that launched 17 more kids.

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But then again, that one came and went before they became the famous fame-whores they are now. They should be more respectful. After all, it was the miscarriage that launched 17 more kids.

Can I just say, if they decide to name check this one I wouldn't be too surprised if they add the other J'fetus to it as well. You know "J(AMM)JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ... and out two little angels in heaven JFJF"

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Can I just say, if they decide to name check this one I wouldn't be too surprised if they add the other J'fetus to it as well. You know "J(AMM)JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ... and out two little angels in heaven JFJF"

Yeah, adding two more Duggars in a new intro should be good for at least another full season pick-up, if not two. They had better give J'20 a different initial, or Caleb the first miscarried Duggar will be feeling way left out.

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Yeah, adding two more Duggars in a new intro should be good for at least another full season pick-up, if not two. They had better give J'20 a different initial, or Caleb the first miscarried Duggar will be feeling way left out.

Was its name really Caleb?

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Was its name really Caleb?

Yea, it was mentioned in the updated People Magazine article. Although, it's interesting that they have never mentioned the name before (at least from my google searches).

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I always thought the first miscarriage was early in the first trimester which is why it was blamed on... dun dun duh... THE PILL- how would they have known if it was going to be a boy or a girl? Also, they didn't mention the name "Caleb" in their first book (don't judge). I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow honor that miscarriage too now that this one has been publicized so much.

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I always thought the first miscarriage was early in the first trimester which is why it was blamed on... dun dun duh... THE PILL- how would they have known if it was going to be a boy or a girl? Also, they didn't mention the name "Caleb" in their first book (don't judge). I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow honor that miscarriage too now that this one has been publicized so much.

I named my 2 miscarriages and I had no idea the real gender of either. They were very early. I had a feeling as to what gender they'd be so I just went with it. I know it seems weird to do so, but I totally understand why she did. It definitely helped me.

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I always thought the first miscarriage was early in the first trimester which is why it was blamed on... dun dun duh... THE PILL- how would they have known if it was going to be a boy or a girl? Also, they didn't mention the name "Caleb" in their first book (don't judge). I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow honor that miscarriage too now that this one has been publicized so much.

But if they really believe that life begins at conception, they kind of should at least recognize the miscarried fetuses. Michelle said they "can't wait to see their miscarried children in heaven"; so I guess they consider them to be children-to-a-lesser-degree. It was only recently, I believe since the story of this miscarriage came out, that Michelle was talking about the first loss as "Caleb" (which is kind of a great name) even though she admits they didn't know the gender.

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