Jill will get the blame...

[gustava]

Or may take it upon herself:

 

Their daughter, Jill, 20, has been studying to become a midwife and had listened to the baby's heartbeat on Nov. 25, Michelle says. "She's been taking notes and keeping good track," says Michelle. "On Dec. 3, I felt a little uncomfortable but I thought it was just something I'd eaten. It could have been the beginning of something going wrong.

 

From the People article.

[aubrietta]

Jill is studying to be a midwife? Through the super quack bill gothard program or a real midwifery school?

Edited to add:

A grand multiparous, multiple c-sectioned mother with a history of pre-e is waaaaaay out of the scope of practice for a midwife, let alone a student. I hope michelle was getting real pre-natal care somewhere else

[lilwriter85]

I hope Jill doesn't get the blame in any way. But on the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if she does get blamed.

[Deleted03]

I don't think they will blame her... she's not responsible and it's not like you can do CPR to an in utero foetus.

[Austin]

Fetuses just die in utero sometimes. Even if Jill had detected it earlier, what could have been about it? Nothing.

If I had to guess, I think it probably had a chromosomal abnormality that was incompatible with life. Of course, even if that's able to be determined, we will never hear about it, because that does not fit into the positive construct of a 45-year-old woman trying to have her 20th baby. :roll:

[NurseNell]

Fetuses just die in utero sometimes. Even if Jill had detected it earlier, what could have been about it? Nothing.

If I had to guess, I think it probably had a chromosomal abnormality that was incompatible with life. Of course, even if that's able to be determined, we will never hear about it, because that does not fit into the positive construct of a 45-year-old woman trying to have her 20th baby. :roll:

Exactly.

[crazyforkate]

I don't see the harm of letting her practice a couple of minor things on her mother, if Mom's getting other prenatal care and Jill is getting other education, and I don't see how anyone sane could blame her. But then the Duggars have demonstrated a tenuous grasp on sanity at best.

[browngrl]

Exactly.

or just as likely Michelle's uterus was just too damaged and scarred to adequately support a placenta - the poor baby probably did not have much of a chance from the get go

[bananacat]

I don't think they will blame her... she's not responsible and it's not like you can do CPR to an in utero foetus.

Are we talking about the same Duggars here? They don't who or what is actually responsible. They want a scapegoat. They'll insist that God punished them for someone's sin, just like they did with the first miscarriage. Only this time, they're way more arrogant so they won't blame themselves and instead will blame one of the kids, probably Josiah but maybe Jill. These are the most superstitious people I know of, and they will not accept that sometimes bad things just happen for no reason.

[Guest Anonymous]

Are we talking about the same Duggars here? They don't who or what is actually responsible. They want a scapegoat. They'll insist that God punished them for someone's sin, just like they did with the first miscarriage. Only this time, they're way more arrogant so they won't blame themselves and instead will blame one of the kids, probably Josiah but maybe Jill. These are the most superstitious people I know of, and they will not accept that sometimes bad things just happen for no reason.

I think they'll scapegoat both Jill AND Josiah. Jill, for not detecting the absence of a fetal heartbeat, and Josiah for not being appropriately joyful when the news was first announced. I shudder for both of them!

[Hane]

When I see these crappy lay midwifery programs put into the same category as the education required of a certified nurse-midwife (such as the one who conducted my daughter's pre-natal care), I die inside a little.

[Daenerys]

I don't think Michelle is stupid enough to lambaste her most devoted disciple.

Josiah is another matter

[Witsec7]

This woman is an insensitive bitch.

[Mama Mia]

In multiple sites she has stated that she was seeing an obstetrician who specialized in high-risk pregnancies. It would just make sense to have your daughter who is training to be a mid-wife ( and also has had emt training I believe ) check on the heartbeat in-between appointments. I don't think that means they are going to blame her for anything.

When I lost my baby in the second trimester the doctor said that often second trimester losses are due to faulty umbilical cord / placenta attachment. Which would seem to fit with the baby appearing to have stopped growing a few weeks before, and not having gone into labor yet. Mine was a very long time ago, but when I did finally go into labor ( after a week or so of watching and waiting and hoping that somehow they were wrong about the heartbeat - it was 25 years ago, so things weren't quite so high tech ) I ended up almost bleeding to death. If it had gone another week or two they would have given me medicine to induce the labor -- if I recall the reason they try to avoid that if they can is that there are some sort of risks to the medication itself. Her loss ( I know in my area it is called a still-birth if it is 20 weeks on, and a miscarriage prior to 20 weeks .. so she is right on the cusp ) could have been for entirely different reasons, obviously, but I don't think hearing a heartbeat one week, and then not a week or two later is something that could have been prevented at that stage.

[apple1]

In multiple sites she has stated that she was seeing an obstetrician who specialized in high-risk pregnancies. It would just make sense to have your daughter who is training to be a mid-wife ( and also has had emt training I believe ) check on the heartbeat in-between appointments. I don't think that means they are going to blame her for anything.

When I lost my baby in the second trimester the doctor said that often second trimester losses are due to faulty umbilical cord / placenta attachment. Which would seem to fit with the baby appearing to have stopped growing a few weeks before, and not having gone into labor yet. Mine was a very long time ago, but when I did finally go into labor ( after a week or so of watching and waiting and hoping that somehow they were wrong about the heartbeat - it was 25 years ago, so things weren't quite so high tech ) I ended up almost bleeding to death. If it had gone another week or two they would have given me medicine to induce the labor -- if I recall the reason they try to avoid that if they can is that there are some sort of risks to the medication itself. Her loss ( I know in my area it is called a still-birth if it is 20 weeks on, and a miscarriage prior to 20 weeks .. so she is right on the cusp ) could have been for entirely different reasons, obviously, but I don't think hearing a heartbeat one week, and then not a week or two later is something that could have been prevented at that stage.

I agree with this.

And IMO this points out what I have been thinking- the risks to Michelle are not over yet.

[apple1]

or just as likely Michelle's uterus was just too damaged and scarred to adequately support a placenta - the poor baby probably did not have much of a chance from the get go

Very likely.

[Deleted03]

I don't think Michelle is stupid enough to lambaste her most devoted disciple.

Josiah is another matter

I totally agree on the risks of it being put on Josiah but Jill did not do anything in this case. Monitoring the heart rate is hardly a sin. Plus we all thought they had weekly apointments but apparently they don't.

I'm sure they've been told too that probably the foetus had a slowed growth and did not die at 16 weeks.

Now saying Josiah's behavior "jinxed" it yeah I can see that.

[gilora]

Or may take it upon herself:

Their daughter, Jill, 20, has been studying to become a midwife and had listened to the baby's heartbeat on Nov. 25, Michelle says. "She's been taking notes and keeping good track," says Michelle. "On Dec. 3, I felt a little uncomfortable but I thought it was just something I'd eaten. It could have been the beginning of something going wrong.

From the People article.

For fuck's sake, how long will they keep pretending Jill is studying to be a midwife? It's been YEARS.

[annalena]

For fuck's sake, how long will they keep pretending Jill is studying to be a midwife? It's been YEARS.

Seriously!! :violin:

[PBrooke]

Well, but how long does it take to get the medical training to become a midwife? Jill might have been interested at 17, but we're not talking Doogie Howser here. Girl's only 20.

[Aeryn406]

But now they'd have a slightly plausible reason for Jill to give up that particular life-path, saying that it was too emotional for her to continue her studies and that she's concentrating on her home-making skills again. And, of course, Jill would have "decided" this all on her own. They could just make it a little footnote at the end of an episode. (There - that'll get all those mean independence-minded, worldly people off our backs. Whew!)

[annalena]

Well, but how long does it take to get the medical training to become a midwife? Jill might have been interested at 17, but we're not talking Doogie Howser here. Girl's only 20.

Sad thing is, she hasn't actually STARTED! She's just doing the CollegePlus "prep" crap! I'll eat my hat if she's enrolled in an actual college.

Way to waste your kid's time, she could be halfway done (at least) by now.

But oh wait, she'd hear about sex :roll:

[fakepigtails73]

And from the way Jill is portrayed on the show you just know how sensitive and "people pleasing" (aka Mom and Dad) that girl is.

She'll probably blame herself, the poor thing.

[apple1]

I would guess that the "program" under discussion is the Gothard "midwifery training". It is along the lines of lay- or direct-entry midwifery. It has nothing to do with being a CNM and would not require college. (Notice that I did NOT say that I think it is a good idea).

[TheSassyOne]

I really hope that no one is getting blamed in this family for the miscarriage.

Sadly, I think the Duggars have only "blamed" themselves once and that was I think more pointed at Michelle. It seems Jim Boob is always bringing up her "baggage" whatever the hell that was. I pray that no one is blamed [Jill nor Josiah], but sadly I think behind the scenes there will be some "sin in the camp" talk.

These people have bought Gothard's crap hook, line and sinker and truly believe that if they are "godly" people, everything should go their way. Of course, that's not what the majority of Christians believe. Most believe that life is difficult at times, and that God is there with us to help us through those difficult times. I can see though if you believe the former, that you'd have to blame someone for your troubles or else you'd have to believe God is pointing that finger at you. Somehow I don't think Jim Book or Michelle would ever admit that they have huge flaws [i'm giving them both the side eye for being such huge fame whores] and would take responsibility for them.

****On a weird sidenote, I really wish TLC would have cameras places secretly in some of the common areas of the Duggar home that would give us a live feed. Yes, yes I know, that's a terrible thought and I wouldn't want that to happen in my home, but then I'm not a fame whore :lol: Then we could have evidence that either the Duggars are fantastic hands-on parents OR that they are what most of us believe them to be; absentee parents whose older daughters do all the parenting and most chores around the house.