Awkward as hell. - Crazy Dating Email

[loveandwar]

Wow. I knew a guy like this. We went out twice on sort-of-but-not-really coffee "dates". For a couple weeks after, he texted and Facebooked me multiple times a day, every day. When I didn't respond within an "acceptable" time period for him (about 30 minutes), he flipped out and sent more texts, demanding to know where I was and what I was doing. When one of my longtime guy friends posted a funny comment on my FB status, I got a message saying, "So, who's [insert longtime guy friend's name here]?! Does he like you?!" After that one, I turned off my phone and shut down my FB page for a week.

Needless to say, I haven't seen the guy since.

[desertvixen]

In my opinion, not responding to my messages is impolite, immature, passive aggressive, and cowardly.

And this email is what, exactly? Business communication?

I spent time, effort, and money meeting you for dinner.

And then she didn't fuck him. Poor baby.

As an investment manager, shouldn't he know that investments don't always get a return? Sometimes it just does not work.

In addition, you arrived about 30 minutes late for our date. I'm sure you wouldn’t like it if a man showed up thirty minutes late for a first date with you.

Yes, because guilt trips will clearly help your case here...

IT'S CALLED SOCIAL SKILLS DUDE.

This. "It was nice to meet you" does not equal "I want to get naked". It's just something you say in social situations.

[wtfrenchtoast]

My goodness. So if twirling hair, making eye contact, and having decent conversation is leading someone on, I lead on pretty much everyone I ever talk to. I constantly twirl my hair, to the point where it annoys my dad because I do it whenever my hands are free. Sometimes I admit, it can be a flirting thing, but mostly it's because it's a habit. This guy's seriously a freak show.

And while I do think it would have been polite for Lauren to say she didn't want to see him again, it's not something he's entitled to. That email is disgusting. It reminds me of the note I got from a guy in high school once, who I had NEVER MET in my life, that said how he wanted to be "more than friends" (once again, never met this person in my life) and how I should just "give him a chance". But then again, that was high school. Not a 30-year-old man who should know better.

[Guest Anonymous]

I wonder how many other women have received similar emails? He writes with such a massive sense of entitlement, I doubt she is the first... :lol:

[GolightlyGrrl]

Nice Guys™ are sucking it up for the men out there who are truly nice, decent human beings.

This!

And I'm just waiting for a collection of "Women are All Bitches Except for Me" Bloggers (Full of Shit, Grerp, Alte) to jump to this guy's defense.

[Eponine]

I read this earlier and was cracking up the whole time, until I actually thought about the implications afterwards.

My favorite part is that they are CLEARLY meant to be together because they both love classical music so! much! that they go to concerts on their own. As someone who was on track to be a professional musician once upon a time: if I thought I was soulmates with every guy I know who goes to classical concerts on his own I would have a shit ton of soulmates. I love that it's really the only thing he cites that they have in common and it's apparently his first priority in a girlfriend. He would never be serious about someone who doesn't like classical music! And hey, relationships are built on convenience, right? She wouldn't even have to waste any extra time in her schedule by going to concerts with him.

Being that many of my NYC lady friends are musicians I am dying for someone to magically find out who this guy is, have them all go on one date with him and never contact him again.

Nice Guys™ are the absolute worst. Their sense of entitlement is probably greater than the jerks'.

[easternabeille]

Fave crazy line:

You played with your hair a lot. A woman playing with her hair is a common sign of flirtation. You can even do a google search on it. When a woman plays with her hair, she is preening. I've never had a date where a woman played with her hair as much as you did. In addition, it didn't look like you were playing with your hair out of nervousness.

I like how he's telling her, a woman, that playing with ones hair is a sign of flirtation and that she can google it if she doesn't believe him!

Sounds like she dodged a load of a crazy!

[Black Aliss]

I'm guessing that the guy isn't really a creep or a stalker. His level of over-analysis suggests some kind of high-functioning autism spectrum disorder, such as Asperger's Syndrome.

[bananacat]

Here's how I might respond:

Dear (whatever),

You're right to be disappointed in me. It's clear that you don't like me and you shouldn't. So I'll never burden you again. I won't put you through the pain of having to hear from me. I'll never call, e-mail, or talk to you for the rest of my life. That should make you happy since you clearly think I'm such a horrible person.

Never Again,

Lauren

[bananacat]

I'm guessing that the guy isn't really a creep or a stalker. His level of over-analysis suggests some kind of high-functioning autism spectrum disorder, such as Asperger's Syndrome.

I find this highly unlikely. Have you ever met anyone with Asperger's Syndrome? They don't generally act like entitled jerks. If anything, they would be too embarrassed by this failed social encounter to make a big deal about it, and it's also unlikely that they would been paying attention to her eye contact.

I can tell you from my own experiences with abusers that this man will be abusive if he isn't already.

[knitwit]

Holy shit. If that's the actual email--not padded out to make an appropriate article length--its length alone is a HUGE, HUGE RED FLAG.

Also maybe she didn't reply because she was getting the OMG CREEPER STAY AWAY vibe from this guy during the date, and didn't want to engage at all. Of course now she's told him that she plans to go to the NY Philharmonic--what do you want to bet she'll be looking over her shoulder for this guy the entire time at the next concert she attends?

There's so much creepy here I can't even comment on it all (really, he has to mention that she obviously found him attractive and he's made a lot of money with investments? Maybe she hasn't called you back because you're a CREEPER AND AN ASSHOLE, geez).

It's things like this that make me very glad I don't bother to seek out dates.

[Kitty]

I'm guessing that the guy isn't really a creep or a stalker. His level of over-analysis suggests some kind of high-functioning autism spectrum disorder, such as Asperger's Syndrome.

No.

I've met quite a few people with Asperger's. They don't do this shit. This isn't Asperger's, it's being a creepy, emotionally abusive asshole with a sense of entitlement.

[Kitty]

Holy shit. If that's the actual email--not padded out to make an appropriate article length--its length alone is a HUGE, HUGE RED FLAG.

Also maybe she didn't reply because she was getting the OMG CREEPER STAY AWAY vibe from this guy during the date, and didn't want to engage at all. Of course now she's told him that she plans to go to the NY Philharmonic--what do you want to bet she'll be looking over her shoulder for this guy the entire time at the next concert she attends?

There's so much creepy here I can't even comment on it all (really, he has to mention that she obviously found him attractive and he's made a lot of money with investments? Maybe she hasn't called you back because you're a CREEPER AND AN ASSHOLE, geez).

It's things like this that make me very glad I don't bother to seek out dates.

The folks on Facebook debating this with me say that she was basically asking for this email, and she was SUCH a BITCH for not replying, and if she'd simply replied "No, I'm not interested," he would have left her alone.

I've dealt with a guy like this (and apparently, my personal experience doesn't count :roll: ). It's very hard to feel safe with a guy who can pull shit like this. The best tactic is generally "ignore it and it'll go away." Maybe that wasn't be best way to go here, but still, to hear so many people (okay, 3) say that she was in the wrong here, and he was the victim.. holy shit. She probably felt rather unsafe and didn't want anything to do with him after the date. Is that so fucking wrong? You can't be gentle with these kinds of guys. You give them an inch, they will take a mile.

[Austin]

I find the suggestion that she had some sort of obligation to respond to him very offensive and sexist. She owes him nothing, zero, nada. I'm sure she picked up on the creep factor hugely during the date, and decided the best course was to not engage at all.

And no matter what she would have done (short of agreeing to date him), he would have considered it wrong and he would have blamed her.

[Kitty]

I find the suggestion that she had some sort of obligation to respond to him very offensive and sexist. She owes him nothing, zero, nada. I'm sure she picked up on the creep factor hugely during the date, and decided the best course was to not engage at all.

And no matter what she would have done (short of agreeing to date him), he would have considered it wrong and he would have blamed her.

What's especially galling, to me at least, is that they tell me that while the email is creepy, there's no way to know from the message itself that he was creepy during the date.

Fucking really? She describes the date as "horrific," he sends this bullshit but I'm just making shit up based on my personal experience? fuck that shit. People who do this sort of thing are also creepy face-to-face, and I hate to imagine what this guy could have done to make her describe the date as 'horrific' and then ignore him.

I totally agree that simply talking to him would have just encouraged his shitty behavior.

[Guest Anonymous]

Yeah, I am stunned that there is any debate at all about whether she was in the wrong to ignore his skeevy calls.

The only debatable issue for me is whether his extraordinary response was due to an autistic syndrome disorder, or just plain creepiness.

[Kitty]

You know what's especially galling about the Facebook debate? The same people told me to ignore my creepy former FWB who did this sort of thing. I hadn't told him why I didn't want anything to do with him, and I brought this up. No, they told me to ignore, ignore, ignore.

And now they're saying my personal experience doesn't matter, and she should have at least sent him a polite message of some sort saying she wasn't interested? And then he sends this shit?! WHY WON'T THESE PEOPLE PUT TWO AND TWO TOGETHER IT'S NOT THAT BLOODY DIFFICULT.

There's a reason I don't go over to a certain other forum anymore.

[Kitty]

Yeah, I am stunned that there is any debate at all about whether she was in the wrong to ignore his skeevy calls.

The only debatable issue for me is whether his extraordinary response was due to an autistic syndrome disorder, or just plain creepiness.

I'm started to get weary of all the speculation he's autistic. I've actually met many creepy "nice guys," I'd say few of them are actually autistic. There might be some overlap, but "creepy asshole" overlaps with a lot of qualifiers. Christian, atheist, rich, poor, handsome, ugly, athletic, geeky, black, white, etc.

FWIW, my creepy guy? Definitely not autistic.

[ADoyle90815]

I briefly dated someone like this guy, and it took me threatening to press harassment charges and file a restraining order to get him to leave me alone. I was fully prepared to follow through with the threat, but since this asshole knew he'd be fired on the spot from his job, the threat was enough. He wasn't autistic in any way at all, and neither was my abusive ex-husband.

[liltwinstar]

I would argue that it doesn't really matter if he's autistic or not. He clearly creeped her out and she doesn't have an obligation to respond to someone she finds creepy just because he might have a disability.

Yes, in general, I believe in being polite to everyone blah blah blah. But at the same time, she has a right not to call/talk to someone when she doesn't want to. She didn't say "I'll call you" after all!

Also, when women do this to men (send multiple emails, ask why they haven't been called back) they're called "clingy" and "needy" and whatnot. Whole books have been written to tell women not to do that! Apparently when a guy does it, though, it's just an honest attempt to "explain" himself or whatever. :roll:

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm started to get weary of all the speculation he's autistic. I've actually met many creepy "nice guys," I'd say few of them are actually autistic. There might be some overlap, but "creepy asshole" overlaps with a lot of qualifiers. Christian, atheist, rich, poor, handsome, ugly, athletic, geeky, black, white, etc.

FWIW, my creepy guy? Definitely not autistic.

I would argue that it doesn't really matter if he's autistic or not. He clearly creeped her out and she doesn't have an obligation to respond to someone she finds creepy just because he might have a disability.

Whether or not he was on the autistic spectrum was just the debate in my mind - I think my creepy ex was and just find it interesteing when the traits seem to show up in others. I don't think autistic necessarily = creepy or that creepy= autistic, but when I see the traits, I speculate sometimes.

From her perspective, hell no, I don't think she has any obligation to him whatsoever. :shock:

[Lainey]

This sounds like my ex-boyfriend, who I dated only because he talked to me like this and I was young and stupid. He was very sexist; the only way I finally managed to get away from him was by dumping him for another man (who I married).

There is a time when safety trumps etiquette, and this is it. She owes him NOTHING. NOTHING! He has a lot of nerve to even write her and make all these ridiculous demands. Kitty, your FB friends who are defending him are wrong, wrong, wrong. And none too bright. Grrrr!

I have a friend who married a guy like this. :( Now she's pregnant.

I know I'm all over the place here, but this makes me so mad I can barely see straight. Certainly I can't think straight. However, this does seem like a good thread to encourage everyone, who hasn't already, to read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker.

[Kitchen Princess]

This was actually posted on reddit by the actual girl who received it. Very creepy and the backstory is interesting too.

[Austin]

This was actually posted on reddit by the actual girl who received it. Very creepy and the backstory is interesting too.

Do you have a link?

[fakepigtails73]

This sounds like my ex-boyfriend, who I dated only because he talked to me like this and I was young and stupid. He was very sexist; the only way I finally managed to get away from him was by dumping him for another man (who I married).

There is a time when safety trumps etiquette, and this is it. She owes him NOTHING. NOTHING! He has a lot of nerve to even write her and make all these ridiculous demands. Kitty, your FB friends who are defending him are wrong, wrong, wrong. And none too bright. Grrrr!

I have a friend who married a guy like this. :( Now she's pregnant.

I know I'm all over the place here, but this makes me so mad I can barely see straight. Certainly I can't think straight. However, this does seem like a good thread to encourage everyone, who hasn't already, to read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker.

Great book!