Awkward as hell. - Crazy Dating Email

[MerryHappy]

I could see some of the gents from the fundie blogs we follow here penning such an email.

Girl goes on date with this guy and does not return his calls/texts and now email. This is the email she receives.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/0 ... lp00000008

(I am just posting the email. Not the entire article)

Hi Lauren,

I'm disappointed in you. I'm disappointed that I haven't gotten a response to my voicemail and text messages.

FYI, I suggest that you keep in mind that emails sound more impersonal, harsher, and are easier to misinterpret than in-person or phone communication. After all, people can't see someone's body language or tone of voice in an email. I'm not trying to be harsh, patronizing, or insulting in this email. I'm honest and direct by nature, and I'm going to be that way in this email. By the way, I did a google search, so that's how I came across your email.

I assume that you no longer want to go out with me. (If you do want to go out with me, then you should let me know.) I suggest that you make a sincere apology to me for giving me mixed signals. I feel led on by you.

Things that happened during our date include, but are not limited to, the following:

-You played with your hair a lot. A woman playing with her hair is a common sign of flirtation. You can even do a google search on it. When a woman plays with her hair, she is preening. I've never had a date where a woman played with her hair as much as you did. In addition, it didn't look like you were playing with your hair out of nervousness.

-We had lots of eye contact during our date. On a per-minute basis, I've never had as much eye contact during a date as I did with you.

-You said, "It was nice to meet you." at the end of our date. A woman could say this statement as a way to show that she isn't interested in seeing a man again or she could mean what she said--that it was nice to meet you. The statement, by itself, is inconclusive.

-We had a nice conversation over dinner. I don't think I'm being delusional in saying this statement.

In my opinion, leading someone on (i.e., giving mixed signals) is impolite and immature. It's bad to do that.

Normally, I would not be asking for information if a woman and I don't go out again after a first date. However, in our case, I'm curious because I think our date went well and that there is a lot of potential for a serious relationship. Of course, it's difficult to predict what would happen, but I think there is a lot of potential for a serious relationship developing between us one day (or least there was before your non-response to my voicemail and text messages).

I think we should go out on a second date. In my opinion, our first date was good enough to lead to a second date.

Why am I writing you? Well, hopefully, we will go out again. Even if we don't, I gain utility from expressing my thoughts to you. In addition, even if you don't want to go out again, I would like to get feedback as to why you wouldn't want to go again. Normally, I wouldn't ask a woman for this type of feedback after a first date, but this is an exception given I think we have a lot of potential.

If you don't want to go again, then apparently you didn't think our first date was good enough to lead to a second date. Dating or a relationship is not a Hollywood movie. It's good to keep that in mind. In general, I thought the date went well and was expecting that we would go out on a second date.

If you're not interested in going out again, then I would have preferred if you hadn't given those mixed signals. I feel led on. We have a number of things in common. I'll name a few things: First, we’ve both very intelligent. Second, we both like classical music so much that we go to classical music performances by ourselves. In fact, the number one interest that I would want to have in common with a woman with whom I'm in a relationship is a liking of classical music. I wouldn't be seriously involved with a woman if she didn't like classical music. You said that you're planning to go the NY Philharmonic more often in the future.

As I said, I go to the NY Philharmonic often. You're very busy. It would be very convenient for you to date me because we have the same interests. We already go to classical music performances by ourselves. If we go to classical music performances together, it wouldn't take any significant additional time on your part. According to the internet, you're 33 or 32, so, at least from my point of view, we're a good match in terms of age. I could name more things that we have in common, but I'll stop here. I don't understand why you apparently don't want to go out with me again. We have numerous things in common. I assume that you find me physically attractive. If you didn't find me physically attractive, then it would have been irrational for you to go out with me in the first place. After all, our first date was not a blind date. You already knew what I looked like before our date. Perhaps, you're unimpressed that I manage my family’s investments and my own investments. Perhaps, you don’t think I have a "real" job. Well, I’ve done very well as an investment manager. I've made my parents several millions of dollars.

That's real money. That's not monopoly money. In my opinion, if I make real money, it's a real job. Donald Trump's children work for his company. Do they have "real" jobs? I think so. George Soros's sons help manage their family investments. Do they have "real" jobs? I think so. In addition, I’m both a right-brain and left-brain man, given that I’m both an investment manager and a philosopher/writer. That’s a unique characteristic; most people aren't like that. I've never been as disappointed and sad about having difficulty about getting a second date as I am with you. I've gone out with a lot of women in my life. (FYI, I'm not a serial dater. Sometimes, I've only gone out with a woman for one date.) People don’t grow on trees. I hope you appreciate the potential we have.

Am I sensitive person? Sure, I am. I think it's better to be sensitive than to be insensitive. There are too many impolite, insensitive people in the world.

I suggest that we continue to go out and see what happens. Needless to say, I find you less appealing now (given that you haven't returned my messages) than I did at our first date. However, I would be willing to go out with you again. I'm open minded and flexible and am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I wish you would give me the benefit of the doubt too. If you don't want to go out again, in my opinion, you would be making a big mistake, perhaps one of the biggest mistakes in your life. If you don’t want to go out again, then you should have called to tell me so. Even sending a text message would have been better than nothing. In my opinion, not responding to my messages is impolite, immature, passive aggressive, and cowardly. I spent time, effort, and money meeting you for dinner. Getting back to me in response to my messages would have been a reasonable thing for you to do. In addition, you arrived about 30 minutes late for our date. I'm sure you wouldn’t like it if a man showed up thirty minutes late for a first date with you.

If you're concerned that you will hurt my feelings by providing specific information about why you don't want to go with me again, well, my feeling are already hurt. I'm sad and disappointed about this situation. If you give information, at least I can understand the situation better. I might even learn something that is beneficial.

If you don't want to go out again, that I request that you call me and make a sincere apology for leading me on (i.e., giving me mixed signals). In my opinion, you shouldn't act that way toward a man and then not go out with him again. It's bad to play with your hair so much and make so much eye contact if you're not interested in going out with me again. I have tried to write this email well, but it's not perfect. Again, I'm not trying to be harsh, insulting, patronizing, etc. I'm disappointed, sad, etc. I would like to talk to you on the phone. I hope you will call me back at xxx-xxx-xxxx> (if it's inconvenient for you to talk on the phone when you read this email, you can let me know via email that you are willing to talk on the phone and I'll call you). If you get my voicemail, you can a leave a message and I can call you back. Even if you don't want to go out again, I would appreciate it if you give me the courtesy of calling me and talking to me. Yes, you might say things that hurt me, but my feelings are already hurt. Sending me an email response (instead of talking on the phone) would better than no response at all, but I think it would be better to talk on the phone. Email communication has too much potential for misinterpretation, etc.

Best, Mike

[MrsYoungie]

"she's just not that into you!"

[Deleted03]

RUN RUN RUN! lol jeez I can see that in ten years apologize for leaving crumbs on the counter!!! probably with violence involved. get over yourself dude, sorry it did not work out, but jeez.

[Kitty]

Men like him should be shot.

Harsh, but that's a shit ton of crayzee, and it's no wonder she didn't want a second date. Holy shit. He feels led on by EYE CONTACT? Men like these are abusers and manipulators.

[Deleted03]

Men like him should be shot.

Harsh, but that's a shit ton of crayzee, and it's no wonder she didn't want a second date. Holy shit. He feels led on by EYE CONTACT? Men like these are abusers and manipulators.

I don't even get, you felt led on, whether it was true or not, the important is that she did not want anything more. yes it sucks,,, buuut that's life. Not everyone can like you. Plus she can be interested during the date and change her mind later. It's not like she left you at the altar...

[Kitty]

I don't even get, you felt led on, whether it was true or not, the important is that she did not want anything more. yes it sucks,,, buuut that's life. Not everyone can like you. Plus she can be interested during the date and change her mind later. It's not like she left you at the altar...

I think most men who whine about being "led on" are in fact emotionally abusive "Nice Guys" who won't accept that the "woman of their dreams" isn't that into them. They put everything they possibly fucking can into just hooking up with a woman, then guilt-trip and insult her when they don't get laid. They don't accept that "that's life." They do not accept reality.

These men don't want relationships. They want arm decorations that double as sex dolls.

[MerryHappy]

"That's real money. That's not monopoly money"

Thanks for clearing that up, Einstein.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

You played with your hair and we had a nice conversation. We're supposed to get married now, you harlot! What a shameless hussy. :lol:

[debrand]

You played with your hair and we had a nice conversation. We're supposed to get married now, you harlot! What a shameless hussy. :lol:

Yes, a lot of people do believe that playing with your hair is flirtatious. The problem is that it is bull. I play with my hair all the time. I've had heterosexual female friends twirl their hair ends while we talk. I wish this myth that a woman messing with her hair is a sign of sexual attraction would just disappear.

Making eye contact is just polite.

I understand being hurt that the attraction was not mutual but it was only one date.

[VodouDoll]

Does this weirdo actually think that every woman who looks at him for more than a couple seconds wants to be his girlfriend?

[Kitty]

Does this weirdo actually think that every woman who looks at him for more than a couple seconds wants to be his girlfriend?

Probably, yes.

I have wayyyy too much experience with these types.

[liltwinstar]

I used to play with my hair a lot out of nervousness, and in retrospect, some men took that as flirtatious behavior.

Now I try not to play with my hair too much - I think it can be distracting and take away from whatever it is I'm trying to talk about. At work, especially, I try to keep my nervous habits at bay :)

All that said, the guy is a nutjob and his date should thank her lucky stars that his whack-a-doodleness came out so early, you know? I mean, what if she'd decided not to sleep with him after the 3rd date after "leading him on" with a pair of high heels or something???

[Austin]

Move the fuck on, dude!

You're pathetic: "you played with your hair", "you made eye contact", and "we had a nice conversation" does NOT constitute being led on :roll: Not even remotely. You're reading way too much into those things. I have twisted my hair since I was a child, and I even find myself doing it in meetings at work. I am NOT preening or flirting. It's just an old habit that I slip back into when I'm concentrating hard or am in a state of higher than normal anxiety. And just a tip, google is not all-knowing.

Most reasonably confident people will make eye contact when conversing with someone. Just the fact that you think someone making eye contact with you indicates an interest in dating you is frankly scary. And crazee.

Having a nice conversation is possible for anyone with some social skills and intellect, so I wouldn't read too much into that, either. I have "nice conversations" all the time with people I have absolutely no interest in otherwise. Sometimes nice conversation is the only way to make it through an awkward situation (like being on a date with you).

I hope other women read this on your blog or wherever you posted it and run like hell, because it never ends well with men like you.

[Artemis]

Run, Lauren, run!

Or beat him at his own game and return a pompous email explaining exactly why you don't feel you're compatible . . .

No, on second thoughts, don't. He sounds like he might have decided you're it, in which case you should get a lawyer and look at a restraining order if he writes to you again. He's definitely stalkerish. And cold, very cold.

He also reminds me of Meredith's Stephen. I can envisage him writing just such a chilly and analytical letter had she not lived up to his expectations.

[tanksmom]

It looks to me like this letter boils down to....

Dear Lauren,

Pity me, me, me, me, me. You're so mean to lead me on. Me, me, me. I'm a psycho who wants to control you. Me, me, me, me. I will never give up on you.

Best,

The controlling asshole that you luckily avoided

Lauren, if you every stumble on this board. Run!

[Austin]

I suggest that we continue to go out and see what happens. Needless to say, I find you less appealing now (given that you haven't returned my messages) than I did at our first date. However, I would be willing to go out with you again. I'm open minded and flexible and am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I wish you would give me the benefit of the doubt too. If you don't want to go out again, in my opinion, you would be making a big mistake, perhaps one of the biggest mistakes in your life. If you don’t want to go out again, then you should have called to tell me so. Even sending a text message would have been better than nothing. In my opinion, not responding to my messages is impolite, immature, passive aggressive, and cowardly. I spent time, effort, and money meeting you for dinner. Getting back to me in response to my messages would have been a reasonable thing for you to do. In addition, you arrived about 30 minutes late for our date. I'm sure you wouldn’t like it if a man showed up thirty minutes late for a first date with you.

If you don't want to go out again, that I request that you call me and make a sincere apology for leading me on (i.e., giving me mixed signals). In my opinion, you shouldn't act that way toward a man and then not go out with him again. It's bad to play with your hair so much and make so much eye contact if you're not interested in going out with me again.

These are my two favorite point-and-laugh-worthy parts.

[chemist1217]

This bears a SHOCKING resemblance to the story told here :

http://dorishinyblog.com/2011/04/26/tex ... -lol-2011/

Not breaking the link because she is fitness blogger and not remotely fundie.

Sounds awfully similar...I think we found our guy!

[Constance Vigilance]

If you don't want to go out again, that I request that you call me and make a sincere apology for leading me on

Is the creepiest bit.

So many abuse red flags in that email I don't know where to start.

[MamaJunebug]

I tell you. I live much longer, I'm gonna lose weight just by reading up on this sort of thing.

I'd like to say, though, that this is not limited to crazy fundamentalists. My dear friend who is anything but a Christian (she behaves like Christians are told to, the kindest person I know; but she does not profess Christ) is in the dating scene and she says that without fail, the wrap-up of a first meeting goes like this:

My friend: "OK, well, it's been nice, it's getting late..."

PlentyOfFish, etc., acquaintance: "Yes, yes, it has, yes it is. Now then, I am thinkign that I may be calling you '-- "

or

"...that I will be calling you -- "

or

"...that I don't think I'll be calling you -- "

My friend is feeling extremely uncharitable towards these a-holes. The last kind, fine. If you know you don't like me, don't call and say so.

But the other two? Who exactly said it was the guy's place to decide whether or not he might or might not get back to her?

YUCCHHKK! I am serious, if anything happens to my The Spousal Unit, I will be gladly and simply single for the rest of my miserable days. ;)

Problem is, my friend is just a love, has lots of it to give, wants someone to love and be loved by.

I pray for her. I covet your-all's prayers and good thoughts for her, too!!!!

[Austin]

What's really sobering is to read some of the comments under the HuffPo article. An alarming number of people feel that the woman is the problem here and that she is "bullying" him :shock: He is the victim in many people's minds.

Is it not acceptable to just not return the call of someone you've been on ONE horrible date with? I'm really asking.

I've actually never dated in the traditional sense, but it seems like just not having further contact with the person is a pretty straightforward answer. Like silence speaks volumes. It's either that or a really awkward conversation like, "Well, you're a nice enough person, but I'm really not interested in getting into a relationship right now". I wouldn't have any problem telling someone that, but a lot of people (both women and men) are very non-confrontational and don't want to have that conversation. Their lack of response or interest in future adventures seems like it should speak for itself.

[Guest Anonymous]

That takes me back 15 years or more to a creepy letter from a guy that I split up with after dating for a year or so during University. He wrote telling me how devastated he was by the way I had treated him in the month or so before we broke up; how I had become cold and disinterested and how I made him feel unloved and unwanted. He then went on to tell me how perfect we would be together if only I would turn back to the person I was at the start of our relationship and how no one would ever love me more than he did. He finished by saying he didn't think he could go on living unless I changed my mind about us breaking up.

Sixth months later he wrote again saying that he didn't expect I wanted to keep in touch but just in case I did, he enclosed a streetmap with directions to his new house..... :?

[Hane]

One date, which concluded in her saying, "It was nice to meet you"? Homeboy lacks emotional intelligence. If she were interested, she would have made it a point that she'd like to see him again.

And I agree with the comment upthread: After a few years of marriage, this would be the kind of guy who'd lose his $#!+ if she ever left crumbs on the counter or forgot to pay the electric bill. Run, Lauren, indeed!

[Guest Anonymous]

Is it not acceptable to just not return the call of someone you've been on ONE horrible date with? I'm really asking.

It is completely understandable. I once accidentally texted a guy 20+ times in the middle of the night after we had been on one date. It was a completely embarassing mistake; I had fallen asleep fully clothed after a drunken Christmas night out, and my phone was in my back pocket and must have kept churning out the same (originally innocent) message every time I moved. I was not vaguely surprised never to hear from him again.... :lol:

[BoomerLynn]

Well, an e-mail like that would totally make me want a second date. :roll:

[MamaJunebug]

That takes me back 15 years or more to a creepy letter from a guy that I split up with after dating for a year or so during University. He wrote telling me how devastated he was by the way I had treated him in the month or so before we broke up; how I had become cold and disinterested and how I made him feel unloved and unwanted. He then went on to tell me how perfect we would be together if only I would turn back to the person I was at the start of our relationship and how no one would ever love me more than he did. He finished by saying he didn't think he could go on living unless I changed my mind about us breaking up.

Sixth months later he wrote again saying that he didn't expect I wanted to keep in touch but just in case I did, he enclosed a streetmap with directions to his new house..... :?

Good. Lard. Psychotic hope does spring eternal, eh? :geek: